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Instruct-a-noob 101: Hulk and... Cloaking Device?
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Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#1 - 2012-05-03 01:16:40 UTC
A hulk with a Cloaking Device fitted. ...I probably don't even understand how hilarious it must sound, but it seems something fun to toy around with. Yes, I'd be giving up 1/3rd of my yield, however I could fit just enough tank for the rats and the rest maximizing yield. I have no idea if this is really possible, but if it is, and it works even remotely, it sure can give me some laughs... :P

According to EFT, if I fit this:

High:
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Low:
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

It'd give me 121.45 CPU and 16.75 power grid for tanking (At max skills).
The yield would be 957.5 m³ per minute. Max skills, no drones, no rigs.
If we then add in 2 Medium Ancillary Current Router II, we can fit 2 Medium Shield Booster II's as tank.

The fit would look like this:

High:
Prototype Cloaking Device I
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Med:
Medium Shield Booster II
Medium Shield Booster II
Empty Med Slot
Empty Med Slot

Low:
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Rig:
Ancillary Current Router II
Ancillary Current Router II

I could, potentially, escape all gank attempts from my friends (and others) unscathed, without having to pre-align, and have quite some laughs when our mining op gets attacked. It won't fetch an awesome yield or anything, but it does the mining while being potentially safe forever from anyone who tries to pew pew me.

If it would be used slightly more serious though, and as an actual standard fit for my hulks, how viable would it be really? Am I missing something on cloaking devices? (Never used them yet)

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-05-03 01:35:02 UTC
... you really really really don't understand how ridiculous that is. You're missing a lot when it comes to cloaking devices, I suggest googling and reading a bit about them.

tl;dr: Just don't do it, it's not a good idea at all
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-05-03 01:53:01 UTC
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
escape all gank attempts from my friends (and others) unscathed

Yeah, have fun escaping at 9 m/s.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-05-03 02:06:41 UTC
mxzf wrote:
... you really really really don't understand how ridiculous that is. You're missing a lot when it comes to cloaking devices, I suggest googling and reading a bit about them.

tl;dr: Just don't do it, it's not a good idea at all

I dont use normal cloaks but couldnt he align to and hit warp after decloak?
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2012-05-03 02:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
mxzf wrote:
... you really really really don't understand how ridiculous that is. You're missing a lot when it comes to cloaking devices, I suggest googling and reading a bit about them.

tl;dr: Just don't do it, it's not a good idea at all

I dont use normal cloaks but couldnt he align to and hit warp after decloak?


Sort of. He'd be invisible while the ship turns, but without a prop mod getting up to 75% speed would take the majority of the time required to warp anyhow. In the meantime, any decent ganker would know enough about where he was when he hit cloak to get there and de-cloak/scram him -- and then boom.

All this for 2/3 yield.

Edit: If you were serious about doing this -- and don't get me wrong, it's a bad idea -- you'd want to do the following:

1) scrap your tank
2) fit a 1MN MWD
3) fit two engine thermal shielding IIs

To use this little trick, you'd want to soft align. When hostiles arrive, hit the MWD and then the cloak. Deactivate the cloak after about 12 seconds, maybe 13. The MWD might give you enough thrust for the last few seconds of its cycle to get you somewhere near 75% velocity.

Oh, and go with an improved cloak, not a prototype. Every bit of velocity penalty hurts your escape.

It's still a bad idea. Did I mention that?
Flakey Foont
#6 - 2012-05-03 02:18:04 UTC
Marcus Ichiro
IchiCorp
#7 - 2012-05-03 09:34:05 UTC
So this is how it goes:

Cloaked ganker alt finds you in belt
Gank group warps in right on top of you
Cloak doesn't work as gankers are too close
Try to warp out but your complacency means you aren't aligned
You die

Genius.
Wyte Ragnarok
#8 - 2012-05-03 09:47:14 UTC
Fit a Rokh with Mining Lasers, Cargo Expanders, CPU Upgrades and some tank in the meds.

I just don't understand miners, are they all completely stupid? Or is it just the fact only the stupid ones post?
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#9 - 2012-05-03 11:42:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanza Mechonis
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
Fit a Rokh with Mining Lasers, Cargo Expanders, CPU Upgrades and some tank in the meds.

I just don't understand miners, are they all completely stupid? Or is it just the fact only the stupid ones post?


Read the title: It clearly says Instruct-a-noob :P

I haven't ever used cloaking devices, and can't even fly a hulk yet (soon though, at a covetor atm). I'm just looking for an easier way to survive ganks other than putting on tank. Keeping an eye on local is pretty much useless in high sec, and it's annoying to stay pre-aligned at all times when the ganker just calls his indy alt to snatch up all the ore :/

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
Skorpynekomimi
#10 - 2012-05-03 11:48:50 UTC
I've seen it done in low-sec, to escape detection from people passing through while mining out a grav site. Worked pretty well.

Economic PVP
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-05-03 12:52:54 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
Hulk Escaping



This .. dear god .. this ! Big smile
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-05-03 13:00:14 UTC
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
I haven't ever used cloaking devices

It shows.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
stoicfaux
#13 - 2012-05-03 15:02:56 UTC
IIRC, if you're already targeted, you can't cloak, so belt rats can be a problem.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-05-03 15:04:17 UTC
OR! Instead of giving up 1/3 of your yield

Buy a ******* Covetor and loose 1/9th of your yield for 300mil less

I know, a ******* shocking idea.

I lied :o
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#15 - 2012-05-03 15:09:09 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
Fit a Rokh with Mining Lasers, Cargo Expanders, CPU Upgrades and some tank in the meds.

I just don't understand miners, are they all completely stupid? Or is it just the fact only the stupid ones post?


Read the title: It clearly says Instruct-a-noob :P

I haven't ever used cloaking devices, and can't even fly a hulk yet (soon though, at a covetor atm). I'm just looking for an easier way to survive ganks other than putting on tank. Keeping an eye on local is pretty much useless in high sec, and it's annoying to stay pre-aligned at all times when the ganker just calls his indy alt to snatch up all the ore :/


Learn to use your directional scanner to spot likely gank ships coming close to you. This will keep you much safer. Local is not your only intel tool.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Tikktokk Tokkzikk
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#16 - 2012-05-03 16:42:14 UTC
You forget that if rats lock you, you can't cloak.

Also they'll just get a covert ops to hug you so you can't cloak either.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2012-05-03 17:39:31 UTC
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
Read the title: It clearly says Instruct-a-noob :P

I haven't ever used cloaking devices, and can't even fly a hulk yet (soon though, at a covetor atm). I'm just looking for an easier way to survive ganks other than putting on tank. Keeping an eye on local is pretty much useless in high sec, and it's annoying to stay pre-aligned at all times when the ganker just calls his indy alt to snatch up all the ore :/


Ok, I'll summarize the problems. First, you can't cloak if you're targeted -- by npcs, players, whatever. And it takes very little time to target a Hulk.

Second, you can't cloak within 2000m of anything, including the Talos that just landed on top of you or the stray mini-veldspar you accidentally drifted toward.

Third, an active cloak means your max speed is drastically cut. The implications here are that gankers would be able to get within 2000m to decloak you plus that you would be nowhere near warp speed when you dropped cloak anyhow.

Fourth, a cloak absolutely kills the major feature of the Hulk: which is ore yield. You'd seriously be better off in a max skilled Covetor absorbing losses than gimp your Hulk by shorting it a stripper.

So yeah. Creative idea; won't work out. Cloaks are actually very well balanced to achieve a narrow number of possible results, but making ships immune to combat isn't on that list.
Jonak
Genesis Deep Space Exploration
#18 - 2012-05-03 18:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonak
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
Read the title: It clearly says Instruct-a-noob :P

I haven't ever used cloaking devices, and can't even fly a hulk yet (soon though, at a covetor atm). I'm just looking for an easier way to survive ganks other than putting on tank. Keeping an eye on local is pretty much useless in high sec, and it's annoying to stay pre-aligned at all times when the ganker just calls his indy alt to snatch up all the ore :/


Ok, I'll summarize the problems. First, you can't cloak if you're targeted -- by npcs, players, whatever. And it takes very little time to target a Hulk.

Second, you can't cloak within 2000m of anything, including the Talos that just landed on top of you or the stray mini-veldspar you accidentally drifted toward.

Third, an active cloak means your max speed is drastically cut. The implications here are that gankers would be able to get within 2000m to decloak you plus that you would be nowhere near warp speed when you dropped cloak anyhow.

Fourth, a cloak absolutely kills the major feature of the Hulk: which is ore yield. You'd seriously be better off in a max skilled Covetor absorbing losses than gimp your Hulk by shorting it a stripper.

So yeah. Creative idea; won't work out. Cloaks are actually very well balanced to achieve a narrow number of possible results, but making ships immune to combat isn't on that list.


I use to do this years ago for a little Jaspet.

Ships:

Brutix
Covetor
Itty

All have cloaks. Brutix had tractor, salvager, mining link. Covetor had something in the low, Halycon something? Some other fittings.

First, you go into the systems in a frig w/cloak and setup "warp to" points in the ore fields. Then set up some safe spots. Next, your bring in your team and have them fly to a safe spot while the bruitx clears an ore filed of rats and the wrecks. Now fly in the ships, setup the itty with a can between it and the covetor. Mine.

If someone comes into local (the system has no stations) you can watch it easily. The system I was in was more of a passing through place so if anyone stayed in local for about a minute I would pop the can and cloak everyone. Bad guys would fly into the field and see nothing, not even wrecks, and fly away. After a few minutes they would leave the systems and I'd resume mining.

If more than a few members of the same corp or alliance entered the system and hung around I'd pack up and warp to the gate and jump back into high sec.