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Move OTA hacking array closer to the fleet warp in.
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Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#1 - 2012-04-30 07:29:26 UTC
Currently OTAs are very noob unfriendly, and not just because of the jamming and dps. The on site Maras are extremely difficult for anything but a shiny fleet with several Alpha ships to kill. Having the hacking array so far away from fleet warp in and out of rep range makes the only logical hacker an out of fleet frigate. This is a chore to say the least as it is extremly easy for the hacker to get destroyed and you need at least 2 hacks to get through the site.

I propose that the hacking site each be moved to 50kms from the fleet warp in and 25kms from each other.
What will this do you ask?
This will allow ships inside the fleet to fit a hacker and a prop mod and STAY WITHIN REP RANGE.
Advanced fleets will still ignore hacking but it will be much more noob friendly to hack the sites.

Poni should Poni Poni~~~~~~~~~

♞
Effect One
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-30 10:13:50 UTC
Can't you use the special frigate that doesn't get targetted by the incursion rats to do the hack?

'This might be internet spaceships, but it's not rocket science to protect yourself and fly with a little common sense' - CCP Falcon
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-04-30 11:06:31 UTC
Your other thread says you have been flying with fleets that have half the dps using missiles ... cruises and torps ...

Yeaaah thats quite far from "shiny fleet" idd ... you were essentially flying in a poor comp fleet and having issues because of it .. now you complain its noob unfriendly and must be changed.

Try using a T3 for example that does the hacking and DPS ... allso missiles are garbage in incursions due to the numerous handicaps they have (Hopefully fixed one day)
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#4 - 2012-04-30 11:13:23 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg 
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#5 - 2012-04-30 12:38:25 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Your other thread says you have been flying with fleets that have half the dps using missiles ... cruises and torps ...

Yeaaah thats quite far from "shiny fleet" idd ... you were essentially flying in a poor comp fleet and having issues because of it .. now you complain its noob unfriendly and must be changed.

Try using a T3 for example that does the hacking and DPS ... allso missiles are garbage in incursions due to the numerous handicaps they have (Hopefully fixed one day)


this is the typical response id expect from someone that doesnt actually participate in incursions.
If i wanted to bring all machariels and nightmares I could have but we already have the numbers for that, the purpose of my other thread was to give me a place and other FCs space to give some info to CCP on the new sites cause I hate to break it to you but CCP doesnt listen to whiners they listen to facts.

As for my first fleet i wrote down, i picked up people as they x'ed up to simulate the noob pubby fleet ~~ thought i specified that ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

♞
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#6 - 2012-04-30 12:42:33 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/aYOL1.jpg


and seriously darth, inciting panic on patch day is one thing but you are possibly one of the most butthurt people i have ever met and i say that with love <3

♞
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#7 - 2012-04-30 17:06:06 UTC
Effect One wrote:
Can't you use the special frigate that doesn't get targetted by the incursion rats to do the hack?

It's a fragile, relatively expensive gank target, and can't fit a prop mod. It also only fits one codebreaker. So you'd have to wait on it to slowboat 70+ km and hope it hacks in the first few cycles.

thhief ghabmoef
Argaral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-05-01 04:15:09 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Your other thread says you have been flying with fleets that have half the dps using missiles ... cruises and torps ...

Yeaaah thats quite far from "shiny fleet" idd ... you were essentially flying in a poor comp fleet and having issues because of it .. now you complain its noob unfriendly and must be changed.

Try using a T3 for example that does the hacking and DPS ... allso missiles are garbage in incursions due to the numerous handicaps they have (Hopefully fixed one day)


this is the typical response id expect from someone that doesnt actually participate in incursions.
If i wanted to bring all machariels and nightmares I could have but we already have the numbers for that, the purpose of my other thread was to give me a place and other FCs space to give some info to CCP on the new sites cause I hate to break it to you but CCP doesnt listen to whiners they listen to facts.

As for my first fleet i wrote down, i picked up people as they x'ed up to simulate the noob pubby fleet ~~ thought i specified that ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I'd like to rebuke this, they do in fact listen to whiners while ignoring facts for several years.

On the non tangent, you do have to admit, due to travel time vs instant fire; Missile based fleets are indeed at a disadvantage. Especially if the missile fleet lacks appropriate webs(huggin/bhaalgorn). The similar argument comes into play with logi's and the instant shield vs end of cycle armour rep.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-05-01 04:49:12 UTC
Have the logi burn 40 km towards hacking can. Now both hacker and entire fleet are in rep range, problem solved.
Spritzie
Malicious Destruction
#10 - 2012-05-01 05:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Spritzie
If you really feel the need to hack the OTA then you have the choice of two different approaches:

1. Fast moving frigate with 2+codebreaker, Pilot is usually out of fleet, so throw that guys some donations.

or

2. Long range missile boats like the Cerberus or the Tengu can still maintain combat range while hacking the cans. (you do need to have ONE of your logi's do a 60km keep at range)

personally I liked option 2, but many of my corp mates preferred option 1.

Of course, even a single 90% web ship will let you lock down the primary and burn it down fast without a hack, so I guess THAT would be the preferred method.


** personally I think the cans are fine where they are
/notsigned
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-05-01 06:25:59 UTC
How many Mara are in the site these days?
Pre patch it was what? 3?
Ive never seen a fleet actually hack the can in an OTA, far easier to just burn through the reps, even for a scrub fleet.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-05-01 17:12:07 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:

As for my first fleet i wrote down, i picked up people as they x'ed up to simulate the noob pubby fleet ~~ thought i specified that ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



You made a very crappy fleet on purpose ... even basic ships can function proper if you dont stack the fleet with sillyness like torpedo ravens (as you did).

Too bad even the good fleet now has subpar income.
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-05-02 11:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: xVx dreadnaught
1 x Helios
1 x Covert Ops Cloaking Device
5 x Codebreaker
3 x Nanofibers

Step 1: Enter site with cloaky alt and start heading to the hacking tower while you mop up previous site.
Step 2: Fleet lands in site and gains aggro.
Step 3: Alt+Tab De-cloak alt and start hacks. (one or 2 cycles should be all it takes)
Step 4: See the tower go all funky once hacked
Step 5: Alt+Tab back to alt and get them moving to second tower cloaked
Step 6: See Step 3
Step 7: Warp to next OTA site

Repeat...
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-05-02 15:24:33 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
Currently OTAs are very noob unfriendly, and not just because of the jamming and dps. The on site Maras are extremely difficult for anything but a shiny fleet with several Alpha ships to kill. Having the hacking array so far away from fleet warp in and out of rep range makes the only logical hacker an out of fleet frigate. This is a chore to say the least as it is extremly easy for the hacker to get destroyed and you need at least 2 hacks to get through the site.

I propose that the hacking site each be moved to 50kms from the fleet warp in and 25kms from each other.
What will this do you ask?
This will allow ships inside the fleet to fit a hacker and a prop mod and STAY WITHIN REP RANGE.
Advanced fleets will still ignore hacking but it will be much more noob friendly to hack the sites.

Poni should Poni Poni~~~~~~~~~



You don't need a hacker, Get the correct fleet comp. Stop flying your CNR's and Tengu's.

For instance: ISN Fleet does a OTA in 6 minutes from Blink to Blink without hacking, Just get the correct fleet comp and stop flying meta 4 guns.

Incursions are made for High Sp Players, Not 3.5 million players.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#15 - 2012-05-02 17:58:54 UTC
Herr Ronin wrote:


Incursions are made for High Sp Players, Not 3.5 million players.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Incursions are for everyone. Yes your elitist fleet can choose what ships you let in without a doubt. I don't think that's a problem. But I do think saying only "Hi Sp Players" should be able to do incursions is a little immature.

Especially when you are posting using an alt less than a month old...

Yes there are super shiny fleets that don't need to hack the towers... good for them. The issue is, that CCP wants us to hack the towers... much like the tower in the TCRC. I would like to see more bonuses from hacking the towers... such as gaining reps from the logistics array, like in the mom site or some ships leaving the field all together.

This would supply bigger bonus to hacking it and make it more worth our time.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#16 - 2012-05-02 19:26:01 UTC
Effect One wrote:
Can't you use the special frigate that doesn't get targetted by the incursion rats to do the hack?


The Echelon was a slow piece of crap that can't get anywhere near the tower for like 5-10 minutes o slowboating I recall. Den't get targeted by Sansha rats????Question
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-05-02 19:37:00 UTC
speaking of incursions are for everyone, are they really? I don't really see a place in them for a toon that's just a few months old tbh
xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#18 - 2012-05-02 21:18:06 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
speaking of incursions are for everyone, are they really? I don't really see a place in them for a toon that's just a few months old tbh



You could skill into a T3 fairly quick. The blitz fleets don't like to have low-skilled pilots in them, but if you find a good group in a PUG fleet, chances are you would be pulled into one of the bigger communities.

Most communities that aren't elitist douchebags are willing to help support newer low-SP pilots till they get themselves sorted.
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-05-05 20:43:51 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Your other thread says you have been flying with fleets that have half the dps using missiles ... cruises and torps ...

Yeaaah thats quite far from "shiny fleet" idd ... you were essentially flying in a poor comp fleet and having issues because of it .. now you complain its noob unfriendly and must be changed.

Try using a T3 for example that does the hacking and DPS ... allso missiles are garbage in incursions due to the numerous handicaps they have (Hopefully fixed one day)


This man has style and sense, We need more of this guy on the Incursion topics!

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-05-05 21:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Ronin
xVx dreadnaught wrote:
Herr Ronin wrote:


Incursions are made for High Sp Players, Not 3.5 million players.


I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Incursions are for everyone. Yes your elitist fleet can choose what ships you let in without a doubt. I don't think that's a problem. But I do think saying only "Hi Sp Players" should be able to do incursions is a little immature.

Especially when you are posting using an alt less than a month old...

Yes there are super shiny fleets that don't need to hack the towers... good for them. The issue is, that CCP wants us to hack the towers... much like the tower in the TCRC. I would like to see more bonuses from hacking the towers... such as gaining reps from the logistics array, like in the mom site or some ships leaving the field all together.

This would supply bigger bonus to hacking it and make it more worth our time.




I would love to know what alt this is, The only character i use for Incursions is Herr Ronin.

Regarding the Inmature point, Well i agree that my post was a bit derp, I still forget 2 years ago i started incursions in a Ferox, Herr Ronin is the only character i use Incursions for in EVE Online, What is this 1 month alt i run Incursions with? I will admit that we both have different views on how to run incursions, You like to bring anyone in fleet etc, So that is understandable.

I am very much Interested.


Regarding the Hacking the Tower, The main problem for a lot of people is the fact that it is 100km away, if it was in cap chain range of rep range for maybe a logi to hack it for instance then that would make more sense, Unless you have a dedicated alt to hack every OTA.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
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