These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Gameplay Center » Ships & Modules » Hulks

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page34567Next pageLast page

Hulks
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

TWHC Assistant

Likes received: 228

#81 - 2012-05-01 08:22:33 UTC | Edited by: TWHC Assistant

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

...

Now you are only empty quoting. You still think you are not a troll? ...

Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:

Guys don't you hate it one your bulldozer doesn't handle like a sports car well having the armor plates of a tank and the fire power of a battalion? am i right or what?

If my "bulldozer" would handle like a sports car then I would be afraid that it either falls apart any second, because of its ultra-light build, or, it is going to break my neck, because of the enormous power it holds. Anyhow, moving dirt around is a difficult task and fighting like a battalion could likely mess up my dirt piles.

I really would like to be able to fit one LSEII or even just two MSEII on a Hulk like I can fit on pretty much any other industrial without having to bend the entire fit to make it work.

To those here who fail to compare the ship prices, because the concept of cost and a free market is too complicated for them shall look at the bill of materials instead. You will be surprised how realistic a price comparison actually can be. The prices for the ships are not drawn out of a hat ...

Capt Retard

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 59

#82 - 2012-05-01 13:38:37 UTC

[Hulk, Tank]
Damage Control II
Local Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Its the tradeoff! if its AFK then live to mine, rather than mine to live!

Arazel Chainfire

Aliastra

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 242

#83 - 2012-05-01 14:38:01 UTC

Basically, I just think that this fit should be possible:

[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II

Medium Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

please note, it is short by 44 CPU and 21pg with fully maxed skills, and this would give a hulk 33k EHP.

By sacrificing all mining laser upgrades, you should also be able to do this:
[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Reactor Control Unit II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

note, this one is only short 14 CPU, and short 108pg. 42k EHP. Maybe require this one to need a PG implant if you feel that is absolutely necessary. Or switch it up so that if you use a 5% PG implant (or a PDU instead of a DCU) you can use a 2nd extender instead of the ancillary current router.

Upon further consideration though, I think the most important point should be getting the hulks align time down to 10s before any nano's/i-stabs etc. seriously, this fit:

[Hulk, New Setup 1]
Inertia Stabilizers II
Inertia Stabilizers II

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II

with a full set of nomads only gets the align time down to 7.7 seconds. Please note, you can get any battleship down to less than 7.7 second align time with just 3 inertial stabilizers...

-Arazel

Petrus Blackshell

Rifterlings

Likes received: 3,297

#84 - 2012-05-01 15:12:24 UTC

Arazel Chainfire wrote:

:dreamfits:

Er... I would decide on one of those that you want and push for it, because the MSE and LSE are very different in PG draws, and one or two RCUs will never bridge the gap.

The first fit you listed (MSE) is a reasonable thing to want for a Hulk, but I'm not sure the +5-8k ehp will really be any more dissuasive in the face of determined suicide gankers.

The align time comment is absolutely true. Hulk (and the other mining barges) need to be far more agile.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Infinite Force

Likes received: 749

#85 - 2012-05-01 16:18:30 UTC

Arazel Chainfire wrote:

Good start, but Petrus nailed it - pick a fit and run.

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Er... I would decide on one of those that you want and push for it, because the MSE and LSE are very different in PG draws, and one or two RCUs will never bridge the gap.

The first fit you listed (MSE) is a reasonable thing to want for a Hulk, but I'm not sure the +5-8k ehp will really be any more dissuasive in the face of determined suicide gankers.

The align time comment is absolutely true. Hulk (and the other mining barges) need to be far more agile.

Take that first fit of yours, Arazel, and lobby for it - hard - before I make a consolidated posting on the F&I forums :)

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!

Ayame Tao

Likes received: 77

#86 - 2012-05-01 16:52:09 UTC | Edited by: Ayame Tao

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Amplifier I

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Mining Drone I x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

CPU 375/375
PWR 57/58.75
RES: EM- 80 / TH- 77 / KN- 83 / EX- 84
CAP: Stable 70%
YIELD: 1191 (Vs. 1284 T2 Strip (-7.8%) Vs. 1511 T2 Strip + 2 x T2 MLU (-26.8%) )

EHP: *drumroll* 34,745
(32,742 with T1 rigs)

You can fit the T2 strips back on if you swap a rig for an ancilliary Current Router, but this drops the EHP to 30,654)

Yes, of course it needs lv5 skills, but the basic theory still applies.

Now, 27% drop in yield for this amount of tank is a serious consideration, but it shows that it is currently possible to fit enough tank on a Hulk as it is right now to make ganking it very difficult. Nothing can alpha that much on its own and it would take a reasonable amount of time, co-ordination and effort to bring you down. Time and effort more easily spent exhuming tears from the untanked max yield fit Hulk and its Orca buddy over there...

You know... if we're playing Fantasy EFT Fit. :)

*edit* I would quite like to see Arazel's first fit too... Make it so!

TWHC Assistant

Likes received: 228

#87 - 2012-05-01 17:35:01 UTC

Petrus Blackshell

Rifterlings

Likes received: 3,297

#88 - 2012-05-01 17:43:29 UTC | Edited by: Petrus Blackshell

TWHC Assistant wrote:

There are no DCUs there. There are no properly tanked Hulks there. There are even very few really shield-tanked Hulks there.

Most of those would not have happened with a buffer/passive fit with a DCU. I can link badly fit ships that underperformed, too:

http://rifterlings.com/kb/index.php/kill_detail/568/
http://rifterlings.com/kb/index.php/kill_detail/441/
http://rifterlings.com/kb/index.php/kill_detail/324/
http://rifterlings.com/kb/index.php/kill_detail/17/

Just because people failfit it, doesn't mean the Oracle needs to be buffed. There is an argument to be made about the Hulk needing more fittings, but linking fits with empty mid slots or passive hardeners does not do anything other than show that people fail at fitting Hulks -- something that everyone already knows.

Ed: So far as fit suggestions, I suggested one before, which is tankier and better at mining than most of those failfits you linked. I'm not going to bother copypasting it here again.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

TWHC Assistant

Likes received: 228

#89 - 2012-05-01 17:49:07 UTC | Edited by: TWHC Assistant

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

TWHC Assistant wrote:

...

Any suggestions for a good Hulk fit? Seeing to what lengths some gankers go and how little damage it actually took do I see little hope for EFT warriors making any points.

There are no DCUs there. There are no properly tanked Hulks there.

Learn to read!

I will condense it to fit into your brain: the gankers use up to 4 destroyers to gank untanked Hulks.

Now start thinking and do it fast.

Ayame Tao

Likes received: 77

#90 - 2012-05-01 17:49:28 UTC

TWHC Assistant wrote:

An average of 4634 EHP each? With the highest of 5284 EHP?

Sweet jeebus on a flying bicycle. Every single one of them deserved everything they got. Actually, flying those fits, I'd kill them myself.

In almost each case, a tanked Hulk which can demonstrably easily hit 25k EHP + without sacrificing too much in the way of yield would have survived.

Exceptions being the 3rd one with 5 Catalysts, even then it would be close as it was in a 0.7 system so Concord response would be a few seconds quicker.

Most also have NPC rats on them too, so either they're just tanking them (seems unlikely in afit that rats will eventually kill, or they're AFK / not paying attention.

There is, it seems, no hope.

Petrus Blackshell

Rifterlings

Likes received: 3,297

#91 - 2012-05-01 17:55:15 UTC

Ayame Tao wrote:

In almost each case, a tanked Hulk which can demonstrably easily hit 25k EHP + without sacrificing too much in the way of yield would have survived.

Actually, most of those didn't even have MLUs, so there wouldn't even be a drop in yield by tanking properly and relying on something other than the Hulk's cargo for ore storage. I hear GSCs are cheap as hell nowadays, and that mining corps have people to do the hauling for you.

Ayame Tao wrote:

There is, it seems, no hope.

Yep. I doubt a PG/CPU buff will do much to actually curb the amount of Hulks lost to suicide ganks.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Petrus Blackshell

Rifterlings

Likes received: 3,297

#92 - 2012-05-01 17:59:55 UTC

TWHC Assistant wrote:

the gankers use up to 4 destroyers to gank untanked Hulks.

... So tank your Hulk for 4x the EHP so they have to use 16 destroyers?

Untanked ships are easy to kill by definition. An untanked Rapier has 6.6k EHP, but nobody is braindead enough to fly it without a tank, even though fitting a tank to it sacrifices its "role" of being a webbing ship. It would just explode instantly, and who wants that?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Ayame Tao

Likes received: 77

#93 - 2012-05-01 18:15:21 UTC

Actually, you know what?

Good!

Every one of those 5,000 HP Hulks is yet another gank that mine will survive.

I'm now considering them chaff, flares, decoys, sacrificial lambs.

If the gank squads can find these in system belts, good for me.

My ships are neither 5,000 hit point wet paper bags, nor are they in system belts where any loon can find them and they'll continue to be unmolested.

TWHC Assistant

Likes received: 228

#94 - 2012-05-01 18:21:10 UTC

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

TWHC Assistant wrote:

the gankers use up to 4 destroyers to gank untanked Hulks.

... So tank your Hulk for 4x the EHP so they have to use 16 destroyers?

No. You bring them in line with the rest of the ships and to give them a fair chance. What the players do with it - either to fly completely untanked Hulks, or to use 4 destroyers in a gank - is their business. You will continue to see both happening. Only will it not be as ridiculous as it is now to fit a decent tank onto a Hulk.

Petrus Blackshell

Rifterlings

Likes received: 3,297

#95 - 2012-05-01 18:30:41 UTC

TWHC Assistant wrote:

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

TWHC Assistant wrote:

the gankers use up to 4 destroyers to gank untanked Hulks.

... So tank your Hulk for 4x the EHP so they have to use 16 destroyers?

I have not seen any example of a Hulk being lost in this thread that didn't have a "fair chance". It is very feasible to get a Hulk to 20k+ EHP with sacrificing little of its yield, and yet I have seen none of those here. Killmails of 20k+ EHP fits and that still get lolganked over and over, would be proof that Hulks need more tank and "have no chance" as they are now.

As is though, miners who don't give one flip about their tank show nothing about the Hulk having a chance or not. It just shows that miners could use some fitting lessons.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

TWHC Assistant

Likes received: 228

#96 - 2012-05-01 19:12:35 UTC | Edited by: TWHC Assistant

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

As is though, miners who don't give one flip about their tank show nothing about the Hulk having a chance or not. It just shows that miners could use some fitting lessons.

No. Stop pointing to those who cannot tank their Hulks as an excuse for not having an argument yourself. You would find kills of 20k-30k eHP Hulks, but I have not found one during my search (I am not going through 1000 kills). There are enough gankers around to kill any Hulk, tanked or untanked. My list of links should have given you an idea of the overkill and lack of detail on the side of the gankers. If they were actually planning their ganks and avoiding tanked Hulks then you would not see kills with 4 Catalysts killing a 4k eHP Hulk for example.

My guess is miners who know how to fit a ship and care about their Hulks do not care for ridiculous fits. They are smarter than you and they will not fill every slot and rig only to get 25k-30k eHP out of their 300m ISK ship (a T2 shield rig costs 100m ISK each and you end up with a 550m ISK ship!). What you think is realistic is unrealistic. EFT and PYFA do not teach you how to fly either. These tools let you tune your fit and only once you have a basic idea of what you want to go for. It does not make every possible fit automatically realistic. This is what you need to learn.

To fit a Hulk as you and others have suggested only means you have missed your chance to dock up and leave it in the hangar. One does not fly a crappy ship.

Petrus Blackshell

Rifterlings

Likes received: 3,297

#97 - 2012-05-01 19:22:11 UTC

TWHC Assistant wrote:

My guess is miners who know how to fit a ship and care about their Hulks do not care for ridiculous fits.

"Damn, this ship requires very good fitting and tanking skills to get a T2 tank on it. **** it, I'm not going to tank it at all. In fact, this ship is so useless that I'm going to leave empty slots."

That sure sounds like someone who knows how to fit or fly a ship. Mmmyep.

TWHC Assistant wrote:

To fit a Hulk as you and others have suggested only means you have missed your chance to dock up and leave it in the hangar. One does not fly a crappy ship.

The huge amount of crappy Hulks lost everyday belies the claim that people do not fly crappy ships. The ships that others and I suggested have bigger tanks (so are immune to more gankers) and bigger yields than the crap most people fly.

If the Hulk were so bad a ship that it's not worth flying, like you claim, then it wouldn't be flown... like Marauders, for instance.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Prince Kobol

Likes received: 2,558

#98 - 2012-05-01 19:28:46 UTC

TWHC Assistant wrote:

There so much fail in this post it is quite staggering

TWHC Assistant

Likes received: 228

#99 - 2012-05-01 19:50:03 UTC

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

If the Hulk were so bad a ship that it's not worth flying, like you claim, then it wouldn't be flown... like Marauders, for instance.

You think Marauders are crappy ships? The Hulk is a crappy ship. Marauders are ok and they do not have a weak tank or a crappy DPS. The reason why you see so little Marauders is because you need to train a lot of skills before you can fly one and you can get faster into a Navy and pirate BS. If you need to compare Marauders with mining ships then you have to compare it with the Covetor.


TWHC Assistant Likes received: 228	#100 - 2012-05-01 19:53:10 UTC Prince Kobol wrote: There so much fail in this post it is quite staggering Take your time. I am sure you will need lots of it. It always takes more time to make up arguments than to actually have some.

First pagePrevious page34567Next pageLast page