These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Suicide Ganks LAME
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-05-01 15:50:26 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Death MUST have meaning!


It has meaning. THey lose their ship and sec status. You lost your ship (and if they're really on the ball, your capsule).

That's meaning.
Xython
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2012-05-01 15:55:14 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
IMHO the problem with suicide ganking is that the punishment does not fit the crime. You can commit murder and the only penalty is a ship loss plus a reversible sec hit. Those who gank Hulks lose very little, and in fact, murder is profitable.


You commit "murder"... to a group of immortal superbeings that literally cannot die.

Lets have a bit of perspective here, Capsuleers never have to worry about real death. Human morality quite literally does not apply to them in this way. Attempting to apply in this way is nothing more than a transparent attempt to dumb down the game's PVP mechanic, yet again, and make highsec "safe."
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#23 - 2012-05-01 16:06:29 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Targets of opportunity, like the famous shuttle with a bazillion PELX in it, fine, or some juicy freighter with 900Km3 of morphite, fine. Grudges/payback, fine. Griefing, fine. Lo/null as is. But murder with virtaully no consequences in Concord protected space is just not in the spirit of EvE's risk versus reward credo..

WTF are you on about? Griefing is fine but griefing isn't?

Most gankers go after people who don't play the game. Myself, when I'm out solo in an arty Thrasher looking to drop more sec status, I like to scan down a Retriever and warp to 0 on the belt. Then I motor in on them, not even bothering to get a lock until I'm ready to F1. Most of them warp off. Those that don't weren't playing the game and lose a ship.

I popped some auto-piloting pod on a whim and learned a hard lesson in what systems to avoid when you have low sec status. I also learned that the faction police will scram you; I once felt stupid for having instas on my high-sec homes, now they're proving their value. NPCs in this game are pretty merciless, unlike a miner/missioner with kill rights.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Burn Jita
#24 - 2012-05-01 16:13:15 UTC
Burn all the things.
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-05-01 17:41:09 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
-snip-WTF are you on about? Griefing is fine but griefing isn't?

Most gankers go after people who don't play the game. -snip- .

I am not against griefing. Nor am I against taking out AFK macroers/botters. I am against the fact that ganking has insufficient risk to the perpetrator, yet can provide good rewards. My only real argument is that ganking in Concord protected space should have real risk. The sec hit is easily worked off, and ship losses are trivial. Good reward + virtually no risk = so many players argue against this, except when it comes to ganking ... does not fit the EvE philosophy.

Like I said, flame war stuff. The counter argument is that miners have all profit and no risks, which I cannot contest, except that miners don't generally blow up other players and thus cause direct losses.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-05-01 17:45:31 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Just saying - its pase already and just not creative.
Yawn @hulkageddon/BurnJita

Death MUST have meaning!



If the suicide has no meaning, we should just remove Concord, since it's useless anyway.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#27 - 2012-05-01 17:47:26 UTC
It gives meaning and enjoyment to the ganker and his community. It gives stress and adrennalin to the reciever and the experience of death and loss :P thats plenty of reason

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Burn Jita
#28 - 2012-05-01 18:10:56 UTC
The only time death doesn't have meaning is when the individual fails to learn the fundamental lesson on how to avoid it the next time.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-05-01 18:14:08 UTC
Anyone can kill you in Eve if you're undocked, uncloaked and they spend enough resources on it. The trick is to make it too difficult for people to bother doing it.
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#30 - 2012-05-01 18:16:18 UTC
"Destroying the Economy" is a bit grandeous ... but there in lies some of the joy ... the tongue in cheek grandiosity (for people who take their posturing seriously, I feel sorry for your lack of humor.. its a game like WWF wrestling... Hulk Hulgans plays a character)

The most that could happen would be to create a little turmoil in the economy and change the economy.

Even if ships cost 3 times as much or 10 times as much even, you'd just have changed the economy, not destroyed it. Its not like players will be out of work without food for their families or roofs over their head.. there are stations and missions and all sort of other things that they'd make some isk doing under a different difficulty level imposed by piracy.

.
Armoured C
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-05-01 18:18:17 UTC
dont see why all the hulk pilot just switch out for covertors for the week while hulkageddon is on ???


you thought this of would of made the most sence
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#32 - 2012-05-01 18:36:34 UTC
Couldn't you conceive of a game where Developers chose not to have a "high sec" ?

It is all arbitrary game design choice how much NPC and mechanics protection they feel like putting in place in different areas of their virtual environment.

---

Is it lame that there isn't a place where ships are safe 100% of the time ? Is it lame that you need to think about how you play to make sure that you profit enough from sucessful trade runs to pay for occasional losses ?

Was it lame when 19th century whaling fleets lost a fair percentage of their ships at sea but more than paid for the losses with the sucessful ones ?


Is it the fact that another player is at the other end of the risk that bothers you ? (why does that bother you compared to losing to an NPC or pefect storm etc... ... )

As for the Role Play.. there are these things called pods and clones that prevent too much lasting damage.

The Concord issues ? What state has universal protection of its citizens from robery and so forth. Given the medical clones you have it's hardly murder.. just a property crime.

Concord has managed to ban weapons of mass destruction Capitals, and block cyno's in high sec but they just don't seem to have the resources to immediately and intantaneously resppond to anyth threat. They've gotten it down to 10 seconds though.

Somehow they can't seem to stop criminal pods from moving around.... they must have gotten suckered into signign some Geneva convention making government shooting or detaining pods a crime against humanity.

.
Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-05-01 19:18:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Spaceman Jack
Dang - this thread is still on the front page!!!!

Back in the days this would have been pushed to page 4 in less than 2 hours with much more interesting threads and ideas replacing it.

THIRTY PERCENT of the
front page is related to
suicide ganking...
HOW DIVERSE!

I stand by my original comment
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-05-01 19:51:05 UTC
While I don't suicide gank myself I have heard that it can be fun. Whether it's killing something ridiculously expensive or watching the internet drama unfold as the victim cries people seem to have fun doing it.

If any sane person can find shooting rocks entertaining I'm sure even more people could find playing terrorist equally amusing.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#35 - 2012-05-02 04:16:06 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Dang - this thread is still on the front page!!!!

Back in the days this would have been pushed to page 4 in less than 2 hours with much more interesting threads and ideas replacing it.

THIRTY PERCENT of the
front page is related to
suicide ganking...
HOW DIVERSE!

I stand by my original comment


Claiming you were trolling when you weren't is passe and not very creative
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#36 - 2012-05-02 05:58:56 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Dang - this thread is still on the front page!!!!

Back in the days this would have been pushed to page 4 in less than 2 hours with much more interesting threads and ideas replacing it.

THIRTY PERCENT of the
front page is related to
suicide ganking...
HOW DIVERSE!

I stand by my original comment


Claiming you were trolling when you weren't is passe and not very creative

Luv2SuicideGank <3

SuicideGankErryday <3

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-05-11 16:46:08 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Just saying - its pase already and just not creative.
Yawn @hulkageddon/BurnJita

Death MUST have meaning!



If the suicide has no meaning, we should just remove Concord, since it's useless anyway.



I did not believe that the Goons were stupid until I saw this...
How you extrapolated that line of thought is beyond me.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
#38 - 2012-05-11 16:47:29 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Just saying - its pase already and just not creative.
Yawn @hulkageddon/BurnJita

Death MUST have meaning!


so passe already that you posted about it in GD

just sayin
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#39 - 2012-05-11 17:43:40 UTC
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Spaceman Jack wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Mining is passe and not very creative

Whine threads are passe and not very creative


This reply is pase and not very creative.


Repeating someone else's jab is passe and not very creative


1) No one was whining.

I'm not slamming my fists saying CCP should do something to change it. It's EVE, so be it, as you can see I have never been ganked, so how the hell can I have tears for it.

I'm just observing that something has passed it prime and it makes me YAWN.
It's not news-worthy.


2) I wasn't repeating YOUR jab... I was repeating mine.

To answer your question in an entirely obvious and unsarcastic way:

ALTS, DERP?

I''m sure your bleating shut off the part of your brain that could have come up with this in the first place though, so that's as good an excuse as any.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-05-11 17:49:21 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
This is definitely flame war territory.

IMHO the problem with suicide ganking is that the punishment does not fit the crime. You can commit murder and the only penalty is a ship loss plus a reversible sec hit. Those who gank Hulks lose very little, and in fact, murder is profitable.

Many claim murder to be a mini-game. It's not the same level of play as the salvage mini-game at all. Murder has insufficient consequences.

Okay, fodder for the flame war along the lines of reciprosity for murder:
1) Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth: Concord should react with equal force, meaning if the ganker pods the victim, Concord pods the ganker. If the ganker only blows up the victim's ship, Concord stops with the ganker's ship.
2) Permanent, non-reversible murder count: you can still work off the sec hit as now, but your permanent count increments to a point that, if you keep murdering, eventually you will be Concorded if you set foot in Hi Sec.
3) Send NPC assassins after the murderers for some added fun. Think of it as PVE content for gankers.

Murder should have real consequences if carried in Concord proteced space. Targets of opportunity, like the famous shuttle with a bazillion PELX in it, fine, or some juicy freighter with 900Km3 of morphite, fine. Grudges/payback, fine. Griefing, fine. Lo/null as is. But murder with virtaully no consequences in Concord protected space is just not in the spirit of EvE's risk versus reward credo..


You can't murder an immortal. However, all the crew that dies with the ship could be considered murdered. Of course Concord returns the favor when they destroy the attackers ship.

Not a lot of morality to go around in the Eve universe.
Previous page123Next page