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Are Lv2 Security Missons too small for a Cruiser?

Author
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-04-30 22:05:21 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Did you actually lose your cruiser? Because I am not aware that the rats in L2s scram you, so you should be able to warp out any time.

Anyway, if you have trouble with tracking, try fitting small guns, that can´t be worse than a Rifter. I think that your main problem might simply be a serious lack of skills.


Did not lose it, but since I can't fly missions with it.....

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Rezig Huruta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-04-30 22:08:45 UTC
If you're minmatar, the Thrasher is quite deadly. Treat it like a bigger rifter and you'll whoop 'em with small guns.

If you're fighting Angel cartel and using EM, that's not good. Use Fusion for short range.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#23 - 2012-04-30 22:09:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Tor Gungnir wrote:


Lv4.

Fighting within optimal range. Keep missing salvo after salvo. Even with a Tracking Computer active..


This is your problem. Autocannons fight in falloff...staying within optimal range usually doesn't work out well. Get farther away from them. About halfway into your falloff should work well enough.

You can even add a range script to the tracking computer and burn out even farther.

thhief ghabmoef

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#24 - 2012-04-30 22:17:09 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:


Lv4.

Fighting within optimal range. Keep missing salvo after salvo. Even with a Tracking Computer active..


This is your problem. Autocannons fight in falloff...staying within optimal range usually doesn't work out well. Get farther away from them. About halfway into your falloff should work well enough.

You can even add a range script to the tracking computer and burn out even farther.


Also, it´s Motion Prediction which improves your tracking by 5% per level.
Trajectory Analysis improves falloff by 5% per level (which is quite important as well, especially for Minmatar, though).

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

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Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-04-30 22:28:42 UTC
Nerath Naaris wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:


Lv4.

Fighting within optimal range. Keep missing salvo after salvo. Even with a Tracking Computer active..


This is your problem. Autocannons fight in falloff...staying within optimal range usually doesn't work out well. Get farther away from them. About halfway into your falloff should work well enough.

You can even add a range script to the tracking computer and burn out even farther.


Also, it´s Motion Prediction which improves your tracking by 5% per level.
Trajectory Analysis improves falloff by 5% per level (which is quite important as well, especially for Minmatar, though).


thanks for correcting me Big smile
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-04-30 22:44:10 UTC
So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?".

This game never ceases to confuse me.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

drdxie
#27 - 2012-04-30 22:48:07 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?".

This game never ceases to confuse me.


maybe this will help you understand what you in for.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-04-30 23:00:46 UTC
drdxie wrote:
Tor Gungnir wrote:
So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?".

This game never ceases to confuse me.


maybe this will help you understand what you in for.


Inflammable means flammable?

What a country!

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#29 - 2012-04-30 23:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Tor Gungnir wrote:
So "Falloff" is what you should gun for. Then why the heck is it called "Optimal Range?".

This game never ceases to confuse me.

All turrets have optimal range and falloff. Inside optimal, you have the maximum potential for damage. Once you get into falloff, your chance to hit starts going down, effectively reducing your dps at that range. At the very end of your falloff, you're doing approximately 50% of your dps, and at 2x falloff you're doing next to nothing.

About 1/3 to 1/2 into falloff is where autocannons are usually happy fighting.


Other turrets aren't all falloff. For example, hybrid turrets have a decent amount of both optimal and falloff. Railguns are more optimal than falloff, blasters the opposite. Laser turrets are almost all optimal range.

This should help explain it a bit...the graph is the biggest large-size guns of each type with max skils, but without any ship bonuses or modules applied, using short range ammo. (short range/high damage ammo is what you should use primarily)

Where the lines are flat is optimal range, and where it begins falling off is falloff. (hence the name)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/mutant_corn/Eve/346f3503.png (apologies for the mouse-writing...snipping tool can't add text >_< )



As it stands, autocannons in particular don't look so hot. However, let's add three tracking enhancers to each type and see what happens:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a362/mutant_corn/Eve/aa7f7a51.png



You can see how the different weapon types have different ways of projecting their damage. Lasers don't benefit much from range-enhancing mods as much as projectiles do, since those mods add on twice as much falloff as they do optimal range.

Your projectiles also have the advantage of being able to change their damage type to match the target. Lasers and Hybrids are locked to EM/TH and KIN/TH, respectively.

thhief ghabmoef

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-30 23:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
In a stabber I found it easy when permarunning my AB and orbiting targets to actually ruin my own tracking even when fighting in falloff. As others have mentioned, fighting with a bit more range and having the frigs follow you works wonders.
Thurken
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-05-01 01:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Thurken
You can use small weapons(rails, artillery, small missile launchers) on cruisers. With this setup you have enough powergrid left to fit a very sturdy tank and rip trough level 2 missions easily and do some level 3 missions,too.

Medium long range weopons on cruisers have troubles to track frigates. Tracking modules without other bonuses won't help really with that. Only kiting at range does.
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#32 - 2012-05-01 04:17:34 UTC
Cruisers are outclassed in level 2 missions by destroyers, lack of skill just makes it worse as you can't track anything for crap. Except the Caracal, but that's only because it can shoot bonused small ammo (RSML).

Destroyers are where its at for L2s, their bonuses correlate almost perfectly to what you need in L2s, and they have 7-8 small guns, seeing as you're Minmatar, the Thrasher is downright awesome, use 250mm artillery, shield booster, afterburner, and the rest is up to you, you can alpha everything at range, and wtf tracking from destroyers bonus. If you use ACs you can get more dps but less range, and that will put you in the middle of the rat group which can be hard to tank.

This is what I use for L2/L1 blitzing and Angel epic arc (with a cloak/mwd). It's nothing short of amazing at what it does.
[Thrasher, PvE]

250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S
250mm Light Artillery Cannon II, EMP S
[Empty High slot]

1MN Afterburner II
Small Shield Booster II
Cap Recharger II

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II

Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Small Projectile Metastasis Adjuster I

Obviously T1/Meta the items that you can't T2, fitting is easy and you can lose the gun rigs for tank/cap rigs if you're having trouble tanking stuff but you shouldn't as long as you take out frigs at range and speed tank cruisers with your AB.

TL:DR
Gun cruisers suck at L2s, Destroyers are where its at.
Seth Actault
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-05-01 04:53:01 UTC
Get a vexor with hobgoblins II, it eats frigs for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Omnomnomnom
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#34 - 2012-05-01 12:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: MisterNick
Once you're in a cruiser or bigger, you want to train up your drone skills as they take over much of the work with killing frigates. Nobody ever said they regretted training for T2 lights Cool

The stabber can work in missions, essentially flown as a bigger rifter, but the rupture is more sturdy and forgiving, along with the reasonable drone bay


~ Edit for typos

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."

serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-05-01 15:00:01 UTC
ill tell you your prob with lvl 2s in a criuser

your useing criuser lvl turrets dont use frig lvl guns and you will have no more probs just like the cara for lvl 2 you fight assualt missile launchers witch use standard missiles the same is tru of guns.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#36 - 2012-05-01 16:53:39 UTC
serras bang wrote:
ill tell you your prob with lvl 2s in a criuser

your useing criuser lvl turrets dont use frig lvl guns and you will have no more probs just like the cara for lvl 2 you fight assualt missile launchers witch use standard missiles the same is tru of guns.


This will work, however a destroyer can fit more small guns than most cruisers, would be sweet if the dual 180s actually acted like 2 180mm small guns rather than 1 medium gun. Fitting small guns on a cruiser will give you loads of CPU and Grid for tank but you don't really need it in a lvl 2. I upgraded to a rupture went I was running level 2 missions and most of the time ended up using my destroyer because it was faster. only used the rupture for the occasional hard one.

I used my rupture for a lot of level 3 missions as well before getting into a Cane. No matter what level missions you are running a smaller faster ship is a better option than over sizing. For example it is a major pain to do lvl 3 missions with a battleship. you rarely have a tank issue but can not hit anything. Do not under estimate the value of gun support skills. The right support skills will not only increase your DPS but will make it a lot easy to hit smaller ships.
Drunken Bum
#37 - 2012-05-01 23:31:39 UTC
Read this through. It'll solve all your problems. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/eve-tracking101.swf

After the patch we're giving the market some gentle supply restriction, like tying one wrist to the bedpost loosely with soft silk rope. Just enough to make things a bit more exciting for the market, not enough to make a safeword necessary.  -Fozzie

ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#38 - 2012-05-02 00:18:56 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
I'm just gonna stick to my Rifter or something. Surprisingly it does a lot better at Lv2 missions. Cruisers seem cursed in that they carry guns for Lv3 missions without the ability to tank those through.

The only level 3 mission I ever got in trouble with in my arbitrator was "my sweet privateer" and that is only because of the webs, kill them and you can tank it just fine. That is also probably the hardest l3 in the game.

All you need to tank is speed and range... Even 425s have no problem hitting mission frigs in a shield ruppy because you get some tracking enhqncers and range and fire at a distance. That and the drones really negate the need to track small things.

The stabber is also not the best choice for a mission ship, both the bellicose and rupture to better usually. Also, the vexor, thorax, arbitrator, and carcal are good choices. All or them imo need a passive shield tank, though it is possible to armor tank them, iirc I posted a vid a year or two back doing an l4 in a vexor with an armor tank.
Oraac Ensor
#39 - 2012-05-03 20:52:39 UTC
Tor Gungnir wrote:
Rezig Huruta wrote:
You're not trying to orbit them are you?

Standing still and taking it in the face.

I'm a complete novice at this, but isn't there something wrong here?
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#40 - 2012-05-04 10:08:22 UTC
Ummm... Guys, if he says he has problems with the frigates, what is a BC with even larger turrets going to help really? o.o For taking out small ships, drones are your friend. It can take a few days to get some skills for their DPS (Drones skill allows 1 more drone active at a single given point in time, scout drone operation lets you use the T1 drones, Drone Interfacing gives a 20% boost to DPS per level, and Drone Sharpshooting increases their optimal range)
Throw a few of these in your ship, order them to shoot the frigates, and they should go down rather easily. Just be sure to get the damage type right.

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."

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