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How to grab drone aggro from a bot?
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Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#21 - 2012-04-30 09:30:13 UTC
Zed Jackelope wrote:
Here's a trick that has a very low probability of working, and would work best with the following circumstances:

Either an orca just off grid, or a station with a very short warp direct warp in to the mission space. Or best would be an acceleration gate with wrecks. And the bot's drones must be on aggressive.

1. When drones come out, but before they are set to attack a rat, shoot one. If they are aggressive, they will shoot you back. Be as close to them as possible, so they get to you and reciprocate before Concord shows up. You want to deaggress after that one shot, and hope they continue shooting you until you pop. This gives you a ~30 second window (depending on system sec level) of aggression, after your GCC dies.

2. The moment Concord pops you, warp to orca/station.

3. When gcc wears out, you should have an extremely limited window of aggression on the bot. If you're at an orca, hop in your new boat and warp to mission. If you're in station, undock and pray the window doesn't disappear just in the time it takes to undock/warp.

4. Warp into mission, pray he's still killable.

Like I said, an acceleration gate with wrecks on it you can use to extend the timer would be the most ideal, gives you a fresh 15mins to get in there and kill. Direct warp in is secondary, especially if you have friends keeping the CNR bumped near the warp in point.

Personally, I would have buddies bumping the CNR so he can't warp out.. and I would use a cheap ship with very fast align/lock time. Just get in, refresh the aggression and THEN get in your dps ship.


If this actually works, feel free to send me a cut of the loot.


This should work, except by the time you've locked the drone and shot it, they will likely already be on the way to attack something else. So use a teeny tiny frigate with a meta 0 sensor booster and scan res script for fastest locking times. This will also keep your expenses down.

Also, this is more likely to work in a .5 system, as it will give you more time between getting GCC and CONCORD actually showing up and popping you.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-04-30 09:31:17 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Do it the way Goons do it: Use alpha tornados. Grab bros. All shoot at once. CNR goes pop in one shot. Active tanks don't have a lot of EHP.

As to when to actually shoot, that depends on when they engage their hardeners. If they don't turn them on immediately after undocking, you may want to gank them there. Or, if the rat fire in the mission pocket is heavy, that may be a better choice.

If you don't want to lose the sec status suiciding them, there is almost no way to get them to aggress you. Drones will only attack you if they are set to aggressive (most likely they are) and you attack them or the ship while they are idle. This will get you concordokken.

A perfect method would be if the raven is looting. Simply flip a can and wait.

In the event you decide to go the suicide route, fit 8x 1400mm artillery cannons, Just enough ammo for a couple shots, and as many gyrostabs as you can cram into the slots. Nothing else. Don't bother to insure. You won't get it back. No reason to waste money. You can tailor your ammo choice to the resist profile of the ships in question if you think that will help.

You only need enough ammo for 1 shot. If you have perfect skills you can BARLEY get off 2 in a .5 system.
Garven Dreis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-30 10:46:03 UTC
Aqriue wrote:


Hello, I am mad.


Maybe it's fun to blow up bots?

Terrible Poster Runner-up 2014
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#24 - 2012-04-30 14:28:18 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Do it the way Goons do it: Use alpha tornados. Grab bros. All shoot at once. CNR goes pop in one shot. Active tanks don't have a lot of EHP.

A perfect method would be if the raven is looting. Simply flip a can and wait.


You've never actually looked at or flown a CNR have you? Base ehp of 50-60k...that is atleast 5 nado's, at 100m each. Very high potential for losing alot of money b/c of poor drops. And then you're splitting the loot drop 5 or more ways.

Other cheaper option would be to get 10 or so Cata's and hit it while in mission, but then again, loot split is large number, small shares.

"flip a can"

For one, already tried that, for two...

Its a bot, it blitz's missions. The only thing it loots is mission spec loot (still have yet to track one through a mission that needs loot to see if flipping end loot works), have only found them in shooty missions so far...

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Kaeda Maxwell
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#25 - 2012-05-01 00:12:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaeda Maxwell
Panhead4411 wrote:

Its a bot, it blitz's missions. The only thing it loots is mission spec loot (still have yet to track one through a mission that needs loot to see if flipping end loot works), have only found them in shooty missions so far...


It doesn't sadly I spend days trying to do that to a bot farm in Kaunokka last year with no result, I presume bots will only have gotten smarter since then, not dumber. Sad
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#26 - 2012-05-01 01:16:01 UTC
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:
Panhead4411 wrote:

Its a bot, it blitz's missions. The only thing it loots is mission spec loot (still have yet to track one through a mission that needs loot to see if flipping end loot works), have only found them in shooty missions so far...


It doesn't sadly I spend days trying to do that to a bot farm in Kaunokka last year with no result, I presume bots will only have gotten smarter since then, not dumber. Sad
You spent days of your own playing time worrying about how someone else does or doesn't play? I approve of blowing up their stuff, but obsessing over them like that is unhealthy.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-05-01 08:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Panhead, you may try this.
The primary goal is to get him stage aggro to soften its tank and prevent the bot from warping out. You will need at least 2 extra ships aside from your DPS ships.

Check if the bot is doing missions with high DPS, like Blockade, Pirate Invasion, Dread Scarlet Pirate etc.
Depending on the bot setting you have 2 options.

1) Kill the trigger as fast as possible and cause stage aggro, depending on the bot setting it won't warp out until its tank is going to break. You will have a small window and 1 or 2 alpha Tornados should be enough then. You can bump with a 2nd ship while the bot has stage aggro so it can't warp out and/or use a cheap ship with a point to prevent the bot from warping out.

2) Depending on the bot setting get stage aggro on your ship, tank it and draw all NPCs into aggro and optimal range to the bot. Have a 2nd cheap ship with a point ready to prevent the bot from warping out again 1 or 2 alpha Torandos should be enough then to break the remaining tank.

The tricky thing is to get a point on the bot to prevent it to warp out as i guess the bot is trying to stay aligend the whole mission.
You may try autocannon Canes instead of alpha Tornados in a 0.5 or 0.6 system. They have a far higher DPS and you can easily fit an extra point to lock down the bot after it got stage aggro.

Concord reaction time
0.5 system about 15s = 8xVolleys with 420 AC each volley about 1.7k Damage = 13.6k Damage overall.
0.6 system about 9s = 4xVolleys with 420 AC each volley about 1.7k Damage = 8.5k Damage overall.


In Missions with no acc gate you should use a +150km ongrid warp in to the bot to prevent your DPS ships getting stage aggro.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#28 - 2012-05-01 12:11:12 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:


Concord reaction time
0.5 system about 15s = 8xVolleys with 420 AC each volley about 1.7k Damage = 13.6k Damage overall.
0.6 system about 9s = 4xVolleys with 420 AC each volley about 1.7k Damage = 8.5k Damage overall.


In Missions with no acc gate you should use a +150km ongrid warp in to the bot to prevent your DPS ships getting stage aggro.


As much as i hate to look a gift horse in the mouth...

Your reaction times are wrong. Currently on TQ (unless they did another stealth patch) 16 sec in .6 and 20s in .5 (plus, latest SISI build brings that back down atleast 2 seconds, and 100% stops gank on Concord arrival)

Second. 14k total dmg will barely go through its armor...let alone the remaining shield tank, plus relative resistances from both. Then add another atleast 12k for the hull.

Load up a CNR yourself and look at numbers, its a bit thicker than you are thinking.

And we are trying to profit from this thing, not spend +200m...b/c if we get no drops...there is no moneys.

We are going w/ the neut idea, scanned another couple down last night and checked their cap lvl mid mission, was down to 3k or under, so neuting them with one or two cruisers to turn tank off and wait for mission to kill them. (hoping they don't have a 'warp out at armor dmg' code)

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#29 - 2012-05-01 12:27:49 UTC
As was suggested, try and get them overwhelmed by shooting triggers, then a couple of tornadoes should do it.

Or just round up like 50 people from local and get them all in destroyers. Not economical, but entertaining Pirate

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#30 - 2012-05-01 12:38:33 UTC
MisterNick wrote:
As was suggested, try and get them overwhelmed by shooting triggers, then a couple of tornadoes should do it.

Or just round up like 50 people from local and get them all in destroyers. Not economical, but entertaining Pirate


Sorry, but it would still take atleast 3 tornadoes to punch through JUST the armor and hull values, let alone the remaining shield after they are overwhelmed...

Armor has a base of something like 12k, with moderate base resists

Hull has a base of around 12k, no resists.

That puts everything behind/under shield totaling atleast 30k ehp. And again, add the remaining amount of resist'ed shields, and your looking at more than just 2 nado's...

But if you want to try it w/ just 2, go for it, let me know how it works, and how much you get in drops to cover them.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-05-01 14:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
The reaction times i posted are about 2month old but if they are higher as you posted even better for you.

I was not suggesting to use just 1 Cane i thought that was selfexplaining, gank Canes with T2 420 AC are pretty cheap, should be about 55m each. The rest is math via EFT. I guess the best option is a combo, use stage aggro and neut him while you point him with a cheap ship and then bring in the DPS Canes with a point too....
Forget that as Concord will be already there and the Canes will be useless so you have to use arty Tornados when you neut him first.

I think you need to trial and error to see what works and is cheaper in the end.
1) stage aggro + neut + arty Tornados
2) stage aggro + AC Canes/Blaster Brutix

Just a quick one as i don't know how much the Phoons are going atm. I didn't do the math for it but maybe 2 or 3 Phoons, with neuts + AC in the rack are another option.
3) stage aggro + Neut/AC Phoons

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#32 - 2012-05-01 21:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
If memory serves (I drink a lot, so it probably does not)... here are some other old ideas.

Is the bot also looting? Perhaps you can leave your own wreck or can in the mission room.

There are aggro settings. Have you attempted to steal loot from the bot, and then target the bot, seeing if the drones attack? I recall hearing players say they have to be really conservative with drone aggro settings because of this.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-05-03 03:35:46 UTC
wait till he is in a big missions aggro everything warp away.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#34 - 2012-05-03 12:11:03 UTC
Caught and neuted him twice now....he has an "armor dmg = warp away" clause...and before you say "well just use a cheapy scram frig"...remember, concord will already be onsite b/c of the neuting gank...so scram frig won't exactly continue to exist very long.

Only way i can think to kill them at this point (without spending more than 300m or using 10 pilots) is to catch them as soon as they go into the Gurista side of WC, where there are the two scram frigs...aggro the spies w/ single neut, and neut him empty....that way, with no tank, the strong alpha, plus double scram will likely kill him, since he's using T1 drones he likely won't be able to kill both of them quick enough, considering his tank will be turned off.

We've even tried bumping him into a bad place that would get him stuck, but by the time we get him there, most of the mission dps is gone.

Plain and simple, there need to be more lvl 4's with scrams...heck 3's have like 10x more scram instances than 4's...*facedesk

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Vile EnEon
Breast Augmentation Charity Society
#35 - 2012-05-03 17:20:11 UTC
Zed Jackelope wrote:

1. When drones come out, but before they are set to attack a rat, shoot one. If they are aggressive, they will shoot you back. Be as close to them as possible, so they get to you and reciprocate before Concord shows up. You want to deaggress after that one shot, and hope they continue shooting you until you pop. This gives you a ~30 second window (depending on system sec level) of aggression, after your GCC dies.


Tetsed, works kind of, but not usable.

GCC Timer countdown begins when your ship is destroyed. While BOT drones will Red Box when shot, their last shot is when your ship explodes, which is also when your GCC starts counting down.

Best case I could establish was a 4 second windows to re-ship, target, and get shot off. Which was not possible in best case scenario. Steps to reproduce:

  • Alt 1 plays role of target, drops can of loot, deploys drones on aggressive
  • Alt 2 plays role of Bot hunter, steals loot from can, Shoots the BOT's drone
  • After yes to concord warning , drones RED box, ship destroyed by either drones or concord
  • Tested with a single shot, at a variety of ranges

Since GCC countdown starts once in POD, the time window to re-ship and shoot is actually (IMO) a measure of Lag between clients, or between client and CCP server.

Worst case was 2 seconds, best case was 4 seconds in 6 attempts.
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