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Financial Regulation Coming to EVE?

Durin Sarga
Lionhearted Investment Services and Planning
#1 - 2012-04-30 17:40:58 UTC
From Hilmar's interview with Forbes magazine

When it comes to these sorts of matters, EVE is more analogous to a society than a game. EVE Online for sure is on many levels a creative endeavor, but it’s also a society and an economy. The metagame and the user creations in EVE are so complex that we’ve had to create institutions and processes around them that mirror those in the real world. So for instance we have a PhD economist monitoring the EVE economy. And the group we flew over last summer, the Council of Stellar Management, is a democratically elected representative body of the players of EVE. Voting participation in those elections is higher than in many real-world contests. Next we’ll probably need to look at auditing corporations and regulating financial institutions.

I thought that last comment was a little interesting. And didn't see anyone else had posted about it yet. So thought I'd share.

Bifrost Light Industries
#2 - 2012-04-30 18:23:43 UTC
CCP's approach is usually to let players deal with it, so perhaps in a 'Commerce Expansion' they'll add a in-game mechanism to create and service a bond, or run a bank with at least some transparency.
Durin Sarga
Lionhearted Investment Services and Planning
#3 - 2012-04-30 18:28:54 UTC
If they are giving this a legitimate look in the next year, I would hope they do some heavy vetting with the MD community (as their the ones who will be using it, most likely) and Dr. E. I don't know of any CSM members who are specifically market-focused.
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-30 18:59:15 UTC
The market is "fine" as it is. I could be better, but the best way to improve the market is to grow the player base.

If they do make changes to the market, I hope it's just better UI and maybe some basic features. I wouldn't mind much larger features like banks/etc, but I think their time is best spent in making sure the high/low/null sec changes are fair and stable.

It could also be that the interview response was a more far off in the future note, like 2+ years.
Derp Shipping Co.
#5 - 2012-04-30 19:00:35 UTC
I read this as a joke, actually, with Hilmar's typical (I think) dryness.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#6 - 2012-04-30 19:37:21 UTC
Hmmm, auditing corporations....P
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#7 - 2012-04-30 20:36:46 UTC
Providing what he means is "Next we’ll probably need to look at providing players with tools for auditing corporations and regulating financial institutions." This could be a good move. At the moment, share holders in EVE have little real power to control, limit or sanction directors.
Evil Brock Nelson
#8 - 2012-04-30 20:53:07 UTC
It's more likely he's saying that just to impress a financial magazine...
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#9 - 2012-04-30 21:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Hmmm, auditing corporations....P

Oh yhe, you read my mind!

Whats really striking is the game itself, being like a social experiment, no rules, you do what you want.

I would like to see what we as a human race can learn.
Darth Tickles
#10 - 2012-04-30 21:14:22 UTC
Evil Brock Nelson wrote:
It's more likely he's saying that just to impress a financial magazine...

What she said.

It's a cheap marketing ploy to make eve out to be more than it is, or at least a very rosy-tinted version of what it is.
Celluloid Gurus
#11 - 2012-05-01 07:15:24 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Evil Brock Nelson wrote:
It's more likely he's saying that just to impress a financial magazine...

What she said.

It's a cheap marketing ploy to make eve out to be more than it is, or at least a very rosy-tinted version of what it is.

Ofcourse it's marketing, but that doesn't say Hilmars wish for more financial corp/bank transparancy is a lie. A lot of players would love to see this and would be the first step towards a controlled working stockmarkt f.i. Now that also would give an extra dimension to Eve. And considering EVE is already the MMO with most elaborate market system it just makes sense that CCP will add these features at 'some' point.

Darth Tickles
#12 - 2012-05-01 13:12:17 UTC
clixor wrote:
A lot of players would love to see this and would be the first step towards a controlled working stockmarkt.

Oh ya? Goooooo oooooooon.
Durin Sarga
Lionhearted Investment Services and Planning
#13 - 2012-05-01 14:35:41 UTC
Even if it was some type of record-keeping loan exchange which used the contract mechanic that might be a step in the right direction.

If we were able to run all the MD bonds through an in-game loan contract which allowed for transparency on bond history, that would be cool.

Something where you could look at available bonds, their interest rates, and who is offering them. Then you could look at what that person's Bond History was (again, all in-game) and decide if you wanted to loan them ISK. It doesn't 'ruin' the sandbox by preventing the person from running off with the money, but it would put a 'Default' label in their bond history so you knew they defaulted X times over Y years. Then you could look at that bond history, who the investors were in the defaulted bonds, and privately contact them to find out what happened. See if it matched what the defaultor is trying to sell you as his reason.

And this is just one idea that kind of already goes in line with existing/former mechanics.

It looks like Hilmar was pointing at auditing or regulating of corporations and financial institutions. Which sounds like something that would be wholly new compared to what we have.

Eh, if it's just marketing and a dry humor joke then we're still at par. Haven't lost anything, haven't gained anything. But if it's more than marketing and actually has some thought behind it, we very well could be seeing the first indication that CCP is serious about tackling the financial sector of EVE again.
Darth Tickles
#14 - 2012-05-01 16:04:55 UTC
Durin Sarga wrote:
we very well could be seeing the first indication that CCP is serious about tackling the financial sector of EVE again.

"Again" in reference to what?
Liberty Eternal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-05-01 16:22:48 UTC
In terms of the rest of the article [and slightly off-topic], if DUST is half as good as he makes it sound, I will be playing it like an addict. It sounds very much like an intelligent person's FPS.


Forbes wrote:
We’ve designed DUST to support all kinds of different experiences. One way you can experience DUST is as a highly accessible entry point into the EVE universe. If you’re someone who just wants quick action, we’ve made sure you can jump into a quick match and start shooting. You can just pick up the controller and have a familiar shooter experience without having us throw a lot of complex stuff at you up front. Those experiences take place mainly in what we call “hi-sec,” the NPC-controlled areas of the universe.

That said, the EVE universe is the deepest, richest, most complex virtual world ever created, and in DUST you can go as deep down that rabbit hole as you want to. In “null-sec,” the player-controlled areas of the universe, players vie for planetary control. They take over territory and build infrastructure that provides benefits in EVE Online and DUST. In these areas, the highest levels of the game, things can get much more complex. The battles that take place here are much larger, much more strategic, with much higher stakes. As such, players will bring everything they have to bear, ranging from the tools and tactics we support to all the intricate politicking and backstabbing that can happen through the metagame.

This ties in with what we call the “roles on the battlefield.” A well-coordinated team that intelligently uses all the different items, tools and tactics will be the most successful. DUST features an unprecedented level of depth for a first-person shooter. You can level up almost any skill you can think of: sniping, armor, vehicle piloting, anything – and the array of items available and customization possibilities are unparalleled.

The best parallel is how MMORPGs like World of Warcraft have “raids” where you need a player equipped as a “tank,” another as a “healer,” another as a “damage dealer” and so on. Class-based shooters have some of this structure, with Soldier, Medic, Engineer, and Heavy classes, but team play in these games is still largely accidental, the gameplay is still very frantic, and the maps and game modes are just not set up to fully bring out this kind of gameplay.

DUST brings out the strategic aspects of class-based, team-based shooter gameplay like never before. As a base, our classes start with the inherent attributes of the Dropsuit (armor) the player chooses. We have announced Assault, Logistics, Scout and Heavy Dropsuits, which provide roles on the battlefield that will be familiar to players of class-based shooters. But the interplay of these roles, and the strategies you can employ with them, go so much further than in any shooter to date. To take out certain objectives, enemies and other challenges, you will have to effectively work together. To take out a challenging enemy, you may have a Heavy acting as a “tank,” a Logistics acting as a “healer,” an Assault acting as a “damage dealer” and so on. These engagements are not necessarily over in a couple of shots, as they tend to be in many other shooters. In DUST, high-level battles can be quite drawn out, very strategic, much more like real war where you need to hold positions, trade fire and perform sabotage depending on how your situation plays out. (Of course an engagement can be over quickly too.)

The complexity doesn’t end there. Thanks to our incredibly deep fitting system (one of the signature features of gameplay in the EVE universe), there are billions of possibilities. For example, you can make a Scout with a heavy weapon, or a Heavy that can run faster than normal if you work at it and coordinate with your teams, friends, corporations and so forth to make best use of all these special customizations as roles on the battlefield.

For more examples of how we’re evolving moment-to-moment shooter gameplay, look at how DUST handles items. Everything on the battlefield is an asset, an actual commodity in the EVE universe. In hi-sec many items are provided by NPCs, but in null-sec they’re all brought in by the players. This is part of why the stakes are so high. Unlike in other shooters, empty vehicles, ammo and items are not conveniently placed all over the map. When you need a vehicle, you call it in. It is brought down to you, wherever you are on the battlefield, by an RDV (Rapid Deployment Vehicle) from the War Barge in orbit, and it is one copy of that unique vehicle you own. The RDV can be shot down too, and your vehicle may or may not be destroyed along with it. That’s very different from other shooters.

As another example, you might have your Logistics stocked up and skilled with drop uplinks, our droppable spawn points. Unlike other shooters, where you are a mortal with infinite lives that somehow materialize out of thin air, in DUST you are an immortal soldier. When you die, your consciousness is transferred to a new clone – again, an actual commodity in the EVE Universe – and you deploy from a CRU (Clone Reserve Unit) or a drop uplink that has been brought to the battle. These drop uplinks can be placed anywhere and add a whole new dimension to shooter game play, which has been plagued by spawn camping for a long time.

Going deeper down, the coordinated gameplay between DUST and EVE Online adds dimensions to the experience that have never been available before. You can create a role – say, using a Logistics – specializing in the tools and communications necessary to call support from EVE Online into DUST. Then, deeper still, there is the role of Commander...

Out of room - see link page 2 for continuation
Durin Sarga
Lionhearted Investment Services and Planning
#16 - 2012-05-01 17:47:44 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
"Again" in reference to what?

Good point. Poor word choice.
Caleb Ayrania
Invisible Exchequer
#17 - 2012-05-01 19:29:29 UTC
A lot of things have already been discussed in MD about these things.. and ccp seem to be ignoring the most basic feature requests..

Easier corp jumping instead of alts, for audits.
Transperency as in ingame mechanic option, and not some high browed work around. One would be disguinguishing between anonymous(in street name) holders of shares. Public lock down visibility etc etc..

There are many small and simple solutions that would make a financial expansion possible..

Put contract search out of game client, with 24 hours of 48 hours delay. So long lasting bulk trade and even bearable bonds would be easier to track and trade. It would also make a nice variation of the store front system. That you can do sort of mini presentations with forum like features text, and added images ofc to say an evegate store front. Linking the contract from there would be rather simple. It seems these things are getting very close to possible, with the new CREST and all the other added features..

Bearable bonds would also be a nice first unique player owned item, and a great test on how that would develop. If first issuer was npc we would have some sort of simplified loan / pawn system. Take out a loan with npc by locking down certain assets at baseprice. The player involvement would be buying the npc bearable bonds and gaining an interest on them. The balance would be making it VERY expensive and VERY low yield for players vs npc, and have the features ready to let playres do the same in a more transparent system mechanic.

If some of these things showed promise, I am sure the next natural step for ccp would be making shares work on npc and pc sides. Again balancing so npc is fairly "lame" ROI. A bit like investment in some BPOs, that wont get any good returns for many years and with monthly yields that are actually bordering below inflation..

Ticarus Hellbrandt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-05-01 21:35:03 UTC
About time there were proper banks and business corporations.
Caleb Ayrania
Invisible Exchequer
#19 - 2012-05-01 21:54:40 UTC
Ticarus Hellbrandt wrote:
About time there were proper banks and business corporations.

Yeah without the need for all the mechanics work arounds.. It would be nice to get a bit of ccp loving in this area.. been lacking for many years now..