Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So, let me get this straight, you want a mining/industrial ship to have better tank than a combat vessel... Sounds ballanced to me.

And referring to earlier statements about EVE being a pvp game, it is mostly PvP & is moving to be more & more PvP. CCP envision a true sandbox, that players will eventualy control every asspect of, with no need for NPCs at all. I look forward to this day.

Wah! - I can't afk mine for hours without any risk - Wah!


I feel so sorry for your plight....

It's a great fit for surviving small ganks, but great for mining? Nope, may as well get a covetor and save yourself 150 Million ISK.

Being able to suicide a large mining vessel with two or less destroyers in high sec is basically an exploit and makes the game unbalanced.
Large mining vessels need to be buffed.

*Looks at insanely long list of Science skills*



Hmmm, let's see. Planetary interaction. Moon mining. Blueprint copying. R&D for Datacores. T2 Invention.

Y'know, all those things that actually make all those ships that make PvP possible?

But hey, I'm not worried. Once the gankers have blown up every last mining barge in EvE, then there won't be anyone left to make those PvP ships, and then the gankers will blow each other up out of boredom, and then when they look for new ones they'll see that the only ship left for sale in the region is an old Breacher... on auction, and the bidding is already up past the six PLEX mark. Then the gankers will cry and unsubscribe because there is nothing left to fly but disposable noobships. And after they're gone maybe the miners will actually start coming back and kick the entire economy out of it's coma again. Maybe... maybe not... you'll probably have to ask them nicely, first. Or beg like a dog, whichever suits their fancy. I'm betting on the latter.

You should study the ecology of predator-prey relationships sometime.

An exploit? Bahahahaha oh wow you lose more credibility with every post.

LOL - you need to lose a few multi-billion ISK ships - with cargo - before you start crying foul.

Ganking a ship in high-sec is NOT an exploit.

Just like in grammer school, let's repeat that 3 times:

Ganking a ship in high-sec is NOT an exploit.

Ganking a ship in high-sec is NOT an exploit.

Ganking a ship in high-sec is NOT an exploit.

Actually, you're lieing to the population, or you're not checking the stats. if you remove both mining laser upgrades from the low slots you're actually losing about 16% of your yield.

The hulk has about 10k ehp without any tanking mods, so, it's been said that a lone destroyer at all skills lvl 5 could take down a hulk solo before concord got there. If this is true, then the difference between 10k ehp and 22.5 ehp is 1 more destroyer, and maybe 1 frigate.

However, any time I've ever seen a hulk get ganked it's been by 3-5 ships. However, the cost of these 3-5 ships is significanly less than the hulk, so even if you were forced to double the amount of ships you ganked a hulk with to 8-10 ships, you'd still be spending 100mil or less to blow up a ship that is currently going for over 300 mil.

See, here's the thing. You can't stop hulks from getting ganked until you make it much less cost effective to gank a hulk. In other words, either the hulk would need to have it's ehp brought up so that it would take close to the same amount of isk involved to gank it, or you would need to reduce the costs of a hulk to make them as cheap as it would cost to gank them.

These two options are the only ways to stop hulk high sec ganking.

However, these are valid changes, why?

Well, because in allowing hulks to be ganked by players using much less isk than the cost of the hulk, then you're basically invalidating the hulk as a cost effective ship.

Now, at a certain point you can flip the costs on this. Lets say, at base without any modules it costs other players approximately 200mil worth of ships to gank the hulk, but the hulk costs 300 mil. Now, if the player fits tank mods he makes his ship much more cost effective in attempts to gank.. So, it would cost 300 mil or SLIGHTLY more/less in order to gank him, meaning the gankers have to decide whether that target is worth the isk or not. Now, if that player decides to focus purely on yield, cargo, and mining, then he's a bit cheaper to gank than a tanked hulk, but not so cheap as it currently is now, thus requiring the gankers to still think twice if they want to gank him, but, it will be more cost effective for them to do so.

I feel that this is a fair trade off, but still, it requires quite a large buff to the standard EHP of a hulk, and requires a buff to the amount of EHP they can fit.

That's OK (not that the first on was bad -- people want max cycle and max tank and don't get that one suffers for the other to be better).

This is true, but the reason ganking hulks is so popular is because you can destroy a lot of value to someone else for relatively low value to yourselves.

When I mentioned cost effectiveness I was not considering the amount of money gankers get from pulling off a gank, because I am well aware that they generally get nothing in return.

However, like you mentioned, ganking hulks is more generally performed just because they can do it. However, just because they can do it doesn't mean that they should be allowed to do it for significantly less than what they destroy.

If you were to require them to have to put in more isk in order to destroy that hulk, then it would be more give and take. They may be destroying 300 mil worth of equipment, but in order to do so, they'd be losing 200-300 mil worth of equipment.