These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Fair Warning: Hulkageddon V Backlash Predicted

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
DF3CT
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2012-04-29 18:55:04 UTC
On a different note I thin they should apply an SP learning Debuff or debuffs depending on how high the bounty is.

Something....anything to stem the tide of people abusing it.

Perhaps even wardec bounties. Something like that.
Jacob Staffuer
Doomheim
#142 - 2012-04-29 19:19:09 UTC
Demosthenes O'Connor wrote:
Jacob Staffuer wrote:
Xython wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Just ban Exhumers from High-Sec and be done with it already. You can then tweak them for proper tanks without making them overshadow mining in High.

I'll admit it would be an interesting 'backlash' - is it a nerf? I'm not so sure. It's certainly in line with CCPs stated goals of getting more industry out to Null.

It would also make Hulkageddon an interesting sport. Suddenly the miners can shoot back. Pirate



High Sec Bears will never go to null.

Hulks can fit no turrets or launchers so the comment about miners shooting back is idiotic.

Your knucklehead idea would lose TENS of thousands of subs, and CCP will not want or do that.

Any more game killing ideas ?


Because a Mining Op is always 100% Hulks and never includes combat ships that are PVP fit and ready to defend the ships.

I suppose in Highsec, where after years of bleating at CCP it's somewhat difficult to gank a ship (and even if you are in danger of being ganked, your illegal bot program auto detects this and warps you off) that's true, but in real EVE anyone going it solo like that had better be watching local like a goddaamned hawk or get used to losing ships every few hours.


"Real EVE"? Kid, give us a break. You're in GSF, which means don't even play EVE - you play SomethingAwful.com. You don't even know what it's like to play EVE; IE, starting with nothing and building yourself up. You come onto this game and instantly get free ships, 1 on 1 apprentice tutoring, safe access to null-sec resources, and all the cushy protection from your nandydandy null-sec carebear alliance. You've never even logged onto EVE Online.

And then you come onto the forums and have a cryfest about hardbears mining in hi-sec. You realize that Hi-Sec is open to you, right? Instead of getting all butthurt about hardbears scraping some ISK together in hi-sec, why not HTFU, fit a tank on a Hulk, and go out and join them?


Exactly this.

The interior of any major alliance territory is almost exactly like high sec. Nullbears in major alliances do not live anything like a hardscrabble existence.

Don't forget the blobs of people flying together so they are in far less danger. Blobbing is smart but people shouldn't let the fantasy of playing an unkillable pilot flying in a blob make them think they are any sort of hero flying on the bleeding edge of danger. I mean really.

"Boring Jita" was just a temporary infestation, a fart in a hurricane. It was fun but so is a weekend in cabo.

Ships got destroyed and replaced as usual only this weekend it was a wee bit more concentrated.

If "let's build a shitload of ships and suicide gank people in one location for a couple of days" is some of the best player content to be found in EVE then perhaps this is why the game has never blown up as much as it could?


100x this.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#143 - 2012-04-29 19:36:45 UTC
npc corp posters analyze nullsec
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#144 - 2012-04-29 20:44:45 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
npc corp posters analyze nullsec


All the cool kids in nullsec post with NPC alts. Just saying.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Mishraile Viliana
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-04-29 22:26:21 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
DU1 -Sia wrote:
Not really, I tell them about the huge fleet's I've been part of in nul, about how it truly made me feel like I was a pilot in a spaceship involving thousands ships fighting over who gets the system... I don't mention the actions of self entitled fools who abuse game mechanics to get one up on the game while risking nothing and being fed like babies from there alliance.

You know, the first time I heard about EVE, it was back in 2006, and a couple co-workers were talking about how one of them got hotdropped by a pirate titan while he was in a cruiser. As he told me about it, I thought 'Holy hell! This game sound crazy! I gotta check this out.' Now that I know the game, I think he was full of it, but those things do happen nowadays, and things like burn jita and hulkageddon are similar in nature.

Yesterday, I was sitting in the chat room for one of the burn jita live streams, and I saw at least 10 21 day trials handed out in the space of an hour because of burn jita. That was in one chat room that never appeared to break 30 people, and I know there were more. Do you think CCP is upset by this?


So the event got them some free trials, now tell me how many do you think will stick around and start paying after they realize that they are the favorite prey for these mighty pvpers.

As for the OP as far as I can see he is only reminding you that high sec is supposed to be a relative safe zone where new players can learn about the game and build up some capital to try something else and older players are able to recover their losses after being blown up without have to suck up to some powerhungry fools in null. Lets just compare it to real life pickpocketing, no shopping center will be without it but as long as it stays within certain limits the police will do nothing more then their normal patrols the moment the number of occurance is deemed to high these patrols will be more frequent to counter an excessive nuisance. In eve this would mean the moment that ccp decides that your fun is having an excessive negative impact on enough highsec players they will take steps to bring it back to what they consider an acceptable level, possible being a bit heavyhanded about it.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#146 - 2012-04-29 22:31:44 UTC
Mishraile Viliana wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
DU1 -Sia wrote:
Not really, I tell them about the huge fleet's I've been part of in nul, about how it truly made me feel like I was a pilot in a spaceship involving thousands ships fighting over who gets the system... I don't mention the actions of self entitled fools who abuse game mechanics to get one up on the game while risking nothing and being fed like babies from there alliance.

You know, the first time I heard about EVE, it was back in 2006, and a couple co-workers were talking about how one of them got hotdropped by a pirate titan while he was in a cruiser. As he told me about it, I thought 'Holy hell! This game sound crazy! I gotta check this out.' Now that I know the game, I think he was full of it, but those things do happen nowadays, and things like burn jita and hulkageddon are similar in nature.

Yesterday, I was sitting in the chat room for one of the burn jita live streams, and I saw at least 10 21 day trials handed out in the space of an hour because of burn jita. That was in one chat room that never appeared to break 30 people, and I know there were more. Do you think CCP is upset by this?


So the event got them some free trials, now tell me how many do you think will stick around and start paying after they realize that they are the favorite prey for these mighty pvpers.

As for the OP as far as I can see he is only reminding you that high sec is supposed to be a relative safe zone where new players can learn about the game and build up some capital to try something else and older players are able to recover their losses after being blown up without have to suck up to some powerhungry fools in null. Lets just compare it to real life pickpocketing, no shopping center will be without it but as long as it stays within certain limits the police will do nothing more then their normal patrols the moment the number of occurance is deemed to high these patrols will be more frequent to counter an excessive nuisance. In eve this would mean the moment that ccp decides that your fun is having an excessive negative impact on enough highsec players they will take steps to bring it back to what they consider an acceptable level, possible being a bit heavyhanded about it.


If you sign up for a game because you saw a massive griefing spree going on and that made you interested, why the hell would you be upset when you get ganked every now and then? Its not like it is hard to join a nullsec or wormhole entity and move somewhere that lacks griefers(tho both places have their own dangers) and most of those people got recruited to existing organization because they were doing a buddy invite.

Additionally, if you are getting ganked more than once or twice a month, you are doing it seriously wrong.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#147 - 2012-04-29 22:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
And here i was thinking that people joined EVE because of this instead



Ah... the good old days
* wipes away tear.




On second thought... it's so much better to have people joining because they dream of (marketed) ripping off of alliances and ganking idiots. So much better!

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#148 - 2012-04-29 22:40:39 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
And here i was thinking that people joined EVE because of this instead



Ah... the good old days * wipes away tear.
On second thought, it's so much better to have people joining who dream of ripping off alliances and ganking idiots. So much better!

It is better, tho I didn't join in hope of doing it. I joined because a universe where that is possible, and encouraged, is incredible, and something I want to be part of. Taking away our ability to do those horrible things, whether I do them or not, takes away from the concept that I was so amazed to discover.

I am all over these forums pushing for griefing and ganking. Check my killboards, you will discover I have never killed a mining ship or an industrial of any variety. Its not what I do, or really even want to do(tho I was very very tempted on Burn Jita), but I don't want this to be a game where it doesn't happen, because thats what EVE is really about.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Lictor Yeva
WoonGaffe
#149 - 2012-04-29 22:55:08 UTC
Demosthenes O'Connor wrote:
If "let's build a shitload of ships and suicide gank people in one location for a couple of days" is some of the best player content to be found in EVE then perhaps this is why the game has never blown up as much as it could?


That's a pretty interesting perspective, but is it entirely fair after 9 years of epic glory that is EVE online to say that 2 days of Jita shenanigans is the best player content around?

I will concede that the current trend in griefing, scamming, suicide ganking, tear harvesting and so forth appears to be growing and more and more pilots seem to get their fun from these sort of activities, rather then the 'Blob A fights Blob B' wars of old, as evidenced by the ever-growing popularity of hulkageddon.

Question is what to do about it. It's a sandbox, it's emergent game play. Should we really break with that concept just to rein in the ******** bullies who step on our pretty sand castles?
DU1 -Sia
Lamorei Prosapia Vexillum
#150 - 2012-04-29 22:55:45 UTC
Someone said what mechanic abuse.

Might I refer said person to the goon thread about how tech is so over valued that they have nothing else to do except to fund a rampage in highsec.

Highsec remember it stands for high security, has shown clearly that the existing mechanics are not working. The mechanics are there to encourage sanctioned concord warfare via the wardec system, and or to encourage players to move out of highsec for full scale unadulterated war.

Burn Jita in all its explosive glory has shown the opposite, its shown that current mechanics are no discouragement at all, and that in fact you can make serious money by just ignoring the highsec status in relation to alpha suicide ganking. Add in that a recent dev blo stated you will be able to buy back security via tags means potentially even what does stand in place to deter people becomes even more ineffectual.

As for HaG honestly sod the hulk highsec pilots, anyone who sits in a 300m ship with a paper tank stationary in a system anyone can get in and out of deserves to get popped, hulks wanna mine go to null and earn the protection.

But current suicide ganking after tier3 BC's introduction, brings about 1 complete failure of the system, freighters. They have just been made defunct by game mechanics. Freighters are essentially highsec craft, for there are quicker more expensive options in low/null, but with the ease of them being alphad in highsec for profit even after gank losses, what now is the point of them?

As another of my posts said, kudos to goons, at fault or not, again they show CCP the failings of there game... well done ;)
Zubrette
R3d Fire
#151 - 2012-04-29 23:06:01 UTC
To be honest, most of the exploits Skunkworks employed were completely ridiculous and should have been fixed. Your exploits are no different. Suck it up.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#152 - 2012-04-29 23:13:59 UTC
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Just ban Exhumers from High-Sec and be done with it already. You can then tweak them for proper tanks without making them overshadow mining in High.


How about we ban all T2 and T3 ships from hi-sec? No? You see how stupid it is to say "let's ban exhumers from hi-sec"?

(Exhumers are just the T2 variant of T1 mining barges. Just like HACs and AFs are the T2 variant of things like T1 cruisers and frigates.)
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#153 - 2012-04-29 23:30:46 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Just ban Exhumers from High-Sec and be done with it already. You can then tweak them for proper tanks without making them overshadow mining in High.


How about we ban all T2 and T3 ships from hi-sec? No? You see how stupid it is to say "let's ban exhumers from hi-sec"?

(Exhumers are just the T2 variant of T1 mining barges. Just like HACs and AFs are the T2 variant of things like T1 cruisers and frigates.)

You are right, but at the same time Hulks were meant to be used in null and low when they were designed. Rather than ban them an actual realistic idea would be to give them bonuses to mining ABCs, such as something that reduces the chance of crystal breakage(crystal breakage is semi random, right?)

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2012-04-30 01:50:28 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Just ban Exhumers from High-Sec and be done with it already. You can then tweak them for proper tanks without making them overshadow mining in High.


How about we ban all T2 and T3 ships from hi-sec? No? You see how stupid it is to say "let's ban exhumers from hi-sec"?

(Exhumers are just the T2 variant of T1 mining barges. Just like HACs and AFs are the T2 variant of things like T1 cruisers and frigates.)

You are right, but at the same time Hulks were meant to be used in null and low when they were designed. Rather than ban them an actual realistic idea would be to give them bonuses to mining ABCs, such as something that reduces the chance of crystal breakage(crystal breakage is semi random, right?)

Ideas like ship "x belongs in place y" seems just as unsandbox like as all the proposals here to ban reduce or make ganking harder.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#155 - 2012-04-30 02:28:24 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Just ban Exhumers from High-Sec and be done with it already. You can then tweak them for proper tanks without making them overshadow mining in High.


How about we ban all T2 and T3 ships from hi-sec? No? You see how stupid it is to say "let's ban exhumers from hi-sec"?

(Exhumers are just the T2 variant of T1 mining barges. Just like HACs and AFs are the T2 variant of things like T1 cruisers and frigates.)

You are right, but at the same time Hulks were meant to be used in null and low when they were designed. Rather than ban them an actual realistic idea would be to give them bonuses to mining ABCs, such as something that reduces the chance of crystal breakage(crystal breakage is semi random, right?)

Ideas like ship "x belongs in place y" seems just as unsandbox like as all the proposals here to ban reduce or make ganking harder.

True. After all, it would be perfectly sandboxy to let titans and supercarriers roam free in highsec, and you would love that wouldn't you?

Letting us use bubbles and bombs in highsec wouldn't hurt anything either, would it? The fact that we can use none of these things ruins the sandbox.

Hell, its not like my suggestion would in anyway nerf hulks as they are now, it would just encourage hulk pilots to find a way to move to nullsec to make full use of their profit generating abilities, much like the dudes I have been interviewing all day today.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#156 - 2012-04-30 02:36:28 UTC
Lictor Yeva wrote:
Demosthenes O'Connor wrote:
If "let's build a shitload of ships and suicide gank people in one location for a couple of days" is some of the best player content to be found in EVE then perhaps this is why the game has never blown up as much as it could?


That's a pretty interesting perspective, but is it entirely fair after 9 years of epic glory that is EVE online to say that 2 days of Jita shenanigans is the best player content around?

I will concede that the current trend in griefing, scamming, suicide ganking, tear harvesting and so forth appears to be growing and more and more pilots seem to get their fun from these sort of activities, rather then the 'Blob A fights Blob B' wars of old, as evidenced by the ever-growing popularity of hulkageddon.

Question is what to do about it. It's a sandbox, it's emergent game play. Should we really break with that concept just to rein in the ******** bullies who step on our pretty sand castles?







Just put some rusty nails into your sandcastle and smile as they stomp away.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#157 - 2012-04-30 02:50:25 UTC
We get fair warning for bleating over the injustices of open-world PVP's now?

Neat, I thought it was just continual. Thanks for the warning, though.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2012-04-30 03:24:26 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Alain Kinsella wrote:
Just ban Exhumers from High-Sec and be done with it already. You can then tweak them for proper tanks without making them overshadow mining in High.


How about we ban all T2 and T3 ships from hi-sec? No? You see how stupid it is to say "let's ban exhumers from hi-sec"?

(Exhumers are just the T2 variant of T1 mining barges. Just like HACs and AFs are the T2 variant of things like T1 cruisers and frigates.)

You are right, but at the same time Hulks were meant to be used in null and low when they were designed. Rather than ban them an actual realistic idea would be to give them bonuses to mining ABCs, such as something that reduces the chance of crystal breakage(crystal breakage is semi random, right?)

Ideas like ship "x belongs in place y" seems just as unsandbox like as all the proposals here to ban reduce or make ganking harder.

True. After all, it would be perfectly sandboxy to let titans and supercarriers roam free in highsec, and you would love that wouldn't you?

Letting us use bubbles and bombs in highsec wouldn't hurt anything either, would it? The fact that we can use none of these things ruins the sandbox.

Hell, its not like my suggestion would in anyway nerf hulks as they are now, it would just encourage hulk pilots to find a way to move to nullsec to make full use of their profit generating abilities, much like the dudes I have been interviewing all day today.

Again, trying to direct where a mining ship should be isn't terribly purposeful. I to this day still don't see how 30k EHP somehow screams this is a nullsec ship. EHP in the millions on a ship or area effect damage like bombs have logical arguments, but the performance and tank of a hulk don't nearly measure up, which is why caps and bombs aren't in highsec and hulks are. If the exhumers were infact meant to be a nullsec ships due to their resilience, they really are terrible ships.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#159 - 2012-04-30 03:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
And here i was thinking that people joined EVE because of this instead



Ah... the good old days * wipes away tear.
On second thought, it's so much better to have people joining who dream of ripping off alliances and ganking idiots. So much better!

It is better....



Then dare I say that you are an idiot kind sir.
And no, I do not wish to further converse with you (nor entertain the ludicrous idea of) how EVE Never Fades HQ compares (or does not compare) to the "stealing from alliance" trailer. Reason being....they are not on the same level, galaxy or dimension of awesome.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#160 - 2012-04-30 03:37:05 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
We get fair warning for bleating over the injustices of open-world PVP's now?

Neat, I thought it was just continual. Thanks for the warning, though.

Meh, what do you expect when they copy thread titles from better posters...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?