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Missions & Complexes

 
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Level 4 missions tank

Author
lChronos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-27 17:25:24 UTC
Generally speaking, how much dps you have to tank on level 4 missions? And over how much would it be overtanking?
Ignoring specific scenarios and not trying to tank all the ships at the same time (such as AFK missioning).
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-04-27 17:28:44 UTC
the rule of thumb is: your dps + your tank = 1000
the more dps you bring, the less tank you need but i personally would not feel comfortable with less than 400 sustained tank.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2012-04-27 17:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Daniel Plain wrote:
the rule of thumb is: your dps + your tank = 1000
the more dps you bring, the less tank you need but i personally would not feel comfortable with less than 400 sustained tank.


For starting out that's pretty fair, especially if you're armor tanking. Make sure that's on mission-specific resists though.

Shield tanking can be lower sustained and higher burst due to shorter cycle times and rep at the start of cycles.

With time and experience, your sustained number gets less and less important. You learn the missions and get more and more gank going, meaning tank only comes into play for a fraction of your time in each pocket. I have a Sleipnir build that has served me well enough in missions that only has 52 seconds of cap -- but it's never needed that much. Most non-injected Machariels clock in at about two to three minutes cap with tank running, less on MWD fits.
lChronos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-27 20:19:22 UTC
Shocked I was sure overtanking.
Thanks, I will adjust all my fits. I was spending too much on tanking and not enough on DPS
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#5 - 2012-04-27 23:09:56 UTC
Burst tank of 350 which lasts for around 4/5 mins is enough.

When I ran with the nightmare I ran with a 800DPS tank and +/- 1100 DPS, the cap lasted like 1 min if I ran everything, but I rarely used a cap booster as the DPS is monstourous and rips through just about everything.
Kalli Brixzat
#6 - 2012-04-28 05:45:40 UTC
Ira Infernus wrote:
Burst tank of 350 which lasts for around 4/5 mins is enough.

When I ran with the nightmare I ran with a 800DPS tank and +/- 1100 DPS, the cap lasted like 1 min if I ran everything, but I rarely used a cap booster as the DPS is monstourous and rips through just about everything.


That's a very efficient way to fit. If you can fit a ship that gets to 900+ DPS...the speed with which you kill stuff becomes a de facto tank. With that sort of fit, you'd only need ~400 deeps tank to survive long enough to reduce incoming damage to that level.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#7 - 2012-04-28 15:27:55 UTC
Also if you have range and speed such as an ab tengu you barely need to tank, you will take very little damage in general. I find that when missioning in a gila only one lse is required to tank the missions due to a smallish Sig and speed.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#8 - 2012-04-28 22:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerath Naaris
I found that tank (T2) is easier to train than DPS. Start with a good one, perhaps even overtank so you have room for mistakes.
As you proceed to train DPS and gain experience, your missions become quicker and you can start to reduce tank with even more DPS. A lot depends on the particular mission as well, most are quite harmless but a handful might prove troublesome.

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lChronos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-04-29 03:40:46 UTC
Yeah, I had to warp away and refit during a Worlds Collide. One repper wasn't enough =P
But it's all part of the learning experience, trial and error.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#10 - 2012-04-29 09:00:28 UTC
my main ship runs about 150 dps sustained

I do have an armor loki that can permatank about 800 from sansha though...

thhief ghabmoef

Velarra
#11 - 2012-04-29 20:48:15 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Also if you have range and speed such as an ab tengu you barely need to tank, you will take very little damage in general. I find that when missioning in a gila only one lse is required to tank the missions due to a smallish Sig and speed.


An AF / stealth bomber duo make for some amusing & different pve particularly given the nature of sig/speed tanking. You should even be able to get away with pvp fittings with a little luck, particularly on the AF.

Boomhaur
#12 - 2012-04-30 16:26:58 UTC
Manage aggro properly, EWAR ships = priority, especially scram frigs. That alone will save you more times than practically any tank.

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Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#13 - 2012-05-01 02:46:07 UTC
First things first...

800 tanked DPS in a battleship is the same as a Tengu with 140 tanked DPS flying at 600m/s. So, if you ever go into t3 hulls, that is a new world.

However, each rat is different.

Angel does less damage, but then, takes less damage. Sansha on the other hand deals more damage and the freaking Tracking Disruption, but melts down like butter against a hot knife.

That said, keep in mind that armor tanking is a LOT different than shield tanking, mainly due to the reps cycles and the Inv. Field.

Start safe, but whatever you do, keep 3 DPS mods (Gyros, Magnectic, Heat Sinks, Ballistic) in the low mods. If you can't do that, there is something you could probably review, although some fits are tricky.

Make sure your fits can hit about 70kms with 600 DPS. Do NOT go for Arts / Tachyons / Rails just for that. Tracking is more important and helps to get rid of cruisers quickly.

For shields, sell your cat, I don't care, get yourself a Gist X-large. That will allow you to run for ever. Another option is the X-Large + cap booster, but I'm really not a fan of having to keep track of boosters.

And, if your DPS skills are low, aka, under 500, you might wanna stick with L3s for a bit longer. You'll make almost as much ISK as running L4s slowly, without all the risk. Kill them faster than they can kill you works wonders in missions.

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Ayame Tao
#14 - 2012-05-01 10:00:28 UTC
Korgan Nailo wrote:
First things first...

800 tanked DPS in a battleship is the same as a Tengu with 140 tanked DPS flying at 600m/s. So, if you ever go into t3 hulls, that is a new world.

However, each rat is different.

Angel does less damage, but then, takes less damage. Sansha on the other hand deals more damage and the freaking Tracking Disruption, but melts down like butter against a hot knife.

That said, keep in mind that armor tanking is a LOT different than shield tanking, mainly due to the reps cycles and the Inv. Field.

Start safe, but whatever you do, keep 3 DPS mods (Gyros, Magnectic, Heat Sinks, Ballistic) in the low mods. If you can't do that, there is something you could probably review, although some fits are tricky.

Make sure your fits can hit about 70kms with 600 DPS. Do NOT go for Arts / Tachyons / Rails just for that. Tracking is more important and helps to get rid of cruisers quickly.

For shields, sell your cat, I don't care, get yourself a Gist X-large. That will allow you to run for ever. Another option is the X-Large + cap booster, but I'm really not a fan of having to keep track of boosters.

And, if your DPS skills are low, aka, under 500, you might wanna stick with L3s for a bit longer. You'll make almost as much ISK as running L4s slowly, without all the risk. Kill them faster than they can kill you works wonders in missions.


Are you selling Gist X-Types perchance?

The C5-L Emergency Shield Overload is just fine and doesn't cost a billion ISK, but yeah, I'd sell anybody's cat for a Gist-X

I've never needed cap boosters in my L4 fits.
Riven Aleem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-05-01 14:54:36 UTC
My Raven has a C5-L and one Amp, along with one invul and 2 specific hardeners. I have the option of an afterburner or second boost amp for the final mid slot. With the AB, I can out-range most battleships and use a nearby cruiser to vampire capacitor from. The Fit gives me 2 minutes of Cap w/o AB running or stable with AB but no booster. So if I can outrun most damage (250m/s) then I'm stable, otherwise I have 2 minutes of constant booster.

My plan is to upgrade to Navy Raven and then cut out the second amp (if I find that with the AB I hardly ever run the booster) and fit a painter.

One very good thing, if the fight goes on a while, and you retreat from the pack constantly until they are all dead (I have 120km range) and you find yourself over 150km from the gate, you can warp there once all are dead. My Noctis has MWD so has no problem retracing the line of battle and warping to the gate also.