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Capsuleers and Aging?

Author
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#1 - 2012-04-28 14:13:04 UTC
First let me start by acknowledging that our clones are not repawned at any other age, than when we first became a capsuleer.

We do not respawn (clone) as a baby and grow up again! (the joke would be too easy, so i won't say it).

But, if we do not get pod killed or use a jump clone, do we age naturally?

I have also been pondering the disconnect that there is involving our avatars. Some of us are sporting scars, or glass eyes. These would obviously not be present on a new clone. I'm also thinking that a capsuleer can live a very crazy life, never having to worry about alcoholism or drug addiction, because cleaning oneself up is only a jump clone or a pod kill away.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#2 - 2012-04-28 15:53:32 UTC
I do not know the answer, but do not believe it is important to telling a story.

Interesting point about the 'no consequence' scenario, because if you approach a story from that perspective, then there would be nothing to fear from a consequence free existence.

Taking that a further step, why, under the above circumstances, would any character in a story care about other characters in a story if they also have a consequence free existence?

Y'see, it's kinda hard for the audience of your story to care about the characters in your story, if there are no consequences to any actions beyond an extremely minor inconvenience of losing your ship.

In a way this is the curse of the EVE Lore - in that no pod pilots (which constitute a v.large percentage of the stories) have a 'bad life' and that only us, the fans, can actually relate to them.

I suspect this big white elephant is the reason why a film could not be made for mass market consumption, because no one would be able to relate to any character who has enough money to buy an entire planet, when average Joe is struggling to make payments on a house for his family.

(apologies for the length of that sentence, I'm even worse when making a speech for real)

I did have the idea for a character once who we join upon the day of his resurrection, when we learn at his speed that; he never updated his clone since graduating and therefore has no knowledge of the life he led...which was pretty evil.

Through the course of story he learns and we learn about the life he had led, and the story attempts to answer the question of 'if you could do it all again, would you do anything different?'

I've never liked the idea of a 'bad apple'.

I have issues with believing someone is just 'evil' for the sake of pitchfork sales. It just doesn't sit well with me. It always seems one-dimensional, too judgementalistical on what the human character is possible of; too basic.

Someone who has done evil and them is able to retain individuality, but redeem themselves, is ultimately a more interesting character.

I'd like to add; a character who redeems themselves not to resolve the story, is much more interesting than one that does.

A character should redeem themselves, for themselves, not for anyone else.

On-Topic:

I think you're onto something and should just run with whatever you feel is best. Age or not.

AK

This space for rent.

Azahni Vah'nos
Vah'nos Family
#3 - 2012-04-28 17:57:51 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
First let me start by acknowledging that our clones are not repawned at any other age, than when we first became a capsuleer.

We do not respawn (clone) as a baby and grow up again! (the joke would be too easy, so i won't say it).

But, if we do not get pod killed or use a jump clone, do we age naturally?

I have also been pondering the disconnect that there is involving our avatars. Some of us are sporting scars, or glass eyes. These would obviously not be present on a new clone. I'm also thinking that a capsuleer can live a very crazy life, never having to worry about alcoholism or drug addiction, because cleaning oneself up is only a jump clone or a pod kill away.

Something you haven't concidered with the no consequences angle is that many of those are habitual, similar to say an eating disorder where the person is not actually hungry, but eats anyway. Many people form habits through repitition, would that change even when moving to a different clone.

Alcoholism and drug abuse are as much of a mental condition as they are a physical one. Is the pod pilot using alcohol/drugs because he/she can't face the fact that they killed all those people for example, that will not change by jumping clones.

Regarding a clones appearance.
Quote:
Culturing a clone takes several months, but all clone stations store generic clones that are only put to use when a client buys it. The skull, and frequently other bones as well, is replaced by osteoplastic materials – soft synthetic bone polymers that can be shaped and then hardened by gamma laser irradiation. In this way, facial features and other body marks and textures can be applied very quickly. The process is very quick and is applied as soon as the clone is purchased. A similar technique is also used to adjust skin tones and give special skin marks, such as tattoos and scars. This means that the featureless clone is quickly transformed into an identical twin of the client.


With aging I think as long as the clone is active it would age due to being made from biomassed cadavars, but if you were podded then it's back to the original blueprint from when you were first cloned or a new blueprint you have had made up.

Nex (Cash Shop) / Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future.

Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#4 - 2012-04-29 03:13:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Ya, I have always been saddened that they never implemented the quite obvious genetic enhancement features that seem to have been an original "concept in the works"..

I believe we were always meant to become "Jovian", minus the "genetic disease" that is inherent in their DNA. We have the outlaw DNA floating around, for instance. Obviously, at some point meant to be of use.. Maybe not, maybe just fluff, but, even the fluff has been useful in understanding the conceptual vision of CCP, at the least.

I like the take on culpability and regret (or lack thereof) brought up rather than the effects of age on a capsuleer, who spends most of his time in space. It is theorized the body could be made to "last" longer in low and zero-g environments..? So, does a Capsuleer even age at the same rate under the lack of gravitational stress..?

At some point in time, some "Jovians" began to believe in their inherent superiority to mankind, and we got the "Enhuadanni", Jovian Elders, ancient personalities that think of themselves as giants to ants. How many Capsuleers are delving after the same goal as these early "Jovians"? Could we be any worse? Those are meaty topics and would love to read the storylines above mentioned..Blink

As mentioned, we have the resources to buy and control vast stretches of real estate, putting the entirety of it's resources to our disposal, or at least to our corporations and alliances. Those resources could easily, if properly directed, outpace the most modern and progressive (or uncaring, tryanical) empire. Not to mention the pirate factions..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#5 - 2012-04-29 10:57:24 UTC
Between this thread and my other, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94953&find=unread , I'm developing a sense of where I will go with my character's views on life, death, immortality, consequences, relationships and morality.

Now the next step is to begin to build a story plot for him to experience.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#6 - 2012-04-29 13:05:58 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
Between this thread and my other, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94953&find=unread , I'm developing a sense of where I will go with my character's views on life, death, immortality, consequences, relationships and morality.

Now the next step is to begin to build a story plot for him to experience.


You have a character but no story for them?

Would be interested to hear how you approach the next step. For me I get an image in my head and end up following whomever is in that image, if at all, to see where they go and what they get up to.

I always find it interesting to watch them, see what they do; like putting them in a locked tank of water and see if they can escape or not. Sometimes they don't and die, so I put them in a cage with some lions and a chair, see if they get out of that.

One time a character was so boring and kept dieing in the cage and the tank, I cut off one of their legs and much to my surprise; they used it as bait for the lion. Whilst the lion was distracted, they took the chair and beat the lion to death, and escaped. Although I had a new found level of respect for them, I now had a character with one leg, hopping about, bleeding to death.

What happened next was really funny...

This space for rent.

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#7 - 2012-04-29 13:38:48 UTC
All stories begin with the main character concept. For an EVE based story, we already have the where and perhaps the when. Now is the task of developing the "What" and the "Why".

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#8 - 2012-04-29 17:07:23 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
All stories begin with the main character concept. For an EVE based story, we already have the where and perhaps the when. Now is the task of developing the "What" and the "Why".


Still, interested to know how you personally get there

AK

This space for rent.

EmpireOfDust
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-04-29 19:02:45 UTC
I don't see it as unlikely for capsuleers to have the power to arrest the ageing process. As for cosmetic features, the clones would look as the capsuleer did on first scan,
Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#10 - 2012-04-29 20:35:17 UTC
EmpireOfDust wrote:
I don't see it as unlikely for capsuleers to have the power to arrest the ageing process. As for cosmetic features, the clones would look as the capsuleer did on first scan,



As for the "cosmetic" features, these would not be present on a new clone. Clones are a DNA copy, not a visual copy. I won't clone with my nose piercing, or tattoos or any other non-DNA feature.

As for aging.... You reset your age to that of when your clone was first or most recently created. My theory is that we age normally, but then we have the option to reclone back to our first - clone age.

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Bluddwolf
Heimatar Military Industries
#11 - 2012-04-29 20:47:07 UTC
AlleyKat wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
All stories begin with the main character concept. For an EVE based story, we already have the where and perhaps the when. Now is the task of developing the "What" and the "Why".


Still, interested to know how you personally get there

AK



I'm leaning towards the story being a journey of character. The reader will follow my character's life as he goes from slave, to capsuleer, to CEO of a corporation.

Along the journey there will be: pain, hate, vengence, triumph, disillusion, regret, resignation and finally.... clarity.

The "clarity" part will be the most difficult I believe. What is the meaning of life for an immortal? How can there be clarity of self or of purpose within the frame work of an immortal life span?

Are we not in many ways cursed as was, Frankenstein's Monster and Dracula?

EVE Online Fan ... Looking for "End Game" since 2006 ... Happily, I still havn't found it

Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#12 - 2012-04-29 23:56:18 UTC
Ah that dreaded Jovian Disease... Remorse... Big smile

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Azalas
Pixel Knights
Dead Pixels Inc
#13 - 2012-05-07 11:41:53 UTC
As far as I understand, The avatars in show info are the pictures of our original self. What we looked like the moment we became a capsuleer. (Well I think so anyway...)

My idea is the moment you wake up in your new clone from a deathly event, that clone should have your main features like bone structure of your face, colour of your eyes, body size. But your also should be bold, no tattoos, not a single mark or scratch on you, no piercings. Just like a new born baby but adult form. Over time your new body will grow its hair back and ofcourse you could add you tattoos again...

Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#14 - 2012-05-07 13:57:14 UTC
The chronicle that explains the cloning process says that custom features can be added to the basic "build", so piercings and tattoos and even scars can be added for a price..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#15 - 2012-05-08 13:08:26 UTC
Roga Dracor wrote:
Ah that dreaded Jovian Disease... Remorse... Big smile


Not even remorse, so much as a form of anhedonia (for those unfamiliar with the term, it's a condition in which the sufferer is unable to experience any kind of pleasure).

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#16 - 2012-05-09 02:46:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Plenty of remorse, too..

But, I would agree that the Jove are searching for the emotional responses that they left behind..

I would say they bred all emotion out of themselves, not through training and self control, or mental illness, but on a genetic level. They simply don't "feel"..

So even the remorse is an intellectual pursuit, at best..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.

Mayda Junichiro
Vascerum Maximus Inc.
#17 - 2012-05-11 23:42:26 UTC
If you guys haven't done so already, I strongly suggest that you read the newest EVE Online novel: Templar One. Not only is it a great read, but it also has quite a bit of lore on the Jovians, explaining what the disease is all about, among other things. You'll also learn about who or what the Sleepers really are.