These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next pageLast page
 

AFK Cloaker solution
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Preybird MKII
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-28 09:56:43 UTC
A common problem I have encountered is the serial AFK cloaker. Log in, go deep-safe somewhere, and just leave and go to work for 8 - 12 hours.

I understand cloaking is a good chance for intel, but its only useful if you are active.

An alternative solution to the cloak-fuel I have thought a fair bit about and quite plausable to a cloak, is a degredation of the cloak the longer it is activated continuously, and a cooldown as you approach the maximum cloak time.

It would work a little like this - You activate your cloak, and for the first 30 mins you can remained cloaked with no penalty. After the 30 mins, you begin to suffer a leeching of your signature radius which will gradually creep up over the next 30 mins, until the hour mark where your signature radius equals that of your uncloaked ship. Visually you will still remain cloaked, however you can be scanned which will allow proximity decloaking.
As well as the leech, after the 30 min mark of continuous activation, the cloak will incurr a 5 minute cooldown, with a further 5 mins added at the 45 min and 60min mark.

No cooldown or leeching in the first 30 mins of activation, so you can deactivate and reactivate as much as you want, which will reset the clock.

This will not disadvantage those who want to use the cloaks as they are intended, and will not reduce the effectivness of the cloaked ship, but will purely stop people cloaking in a system and walking away for 12 - 23 hours.

Cheers,

Prey
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-28 10:02:13 UTC
is it not more easier then to deactivate the cloak after an hour when there is no action
if the cloaker doesn,t change his direction when flying or is stationary after an half hour/1 hour ,the ship will be visible

R.S.I2014
Francisco Bizzaro
#3 - 2012-04-28 10:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Francisco Bizzaro
I guess I can get the ball rolling with the usual questions which are asked every time this non-issue comes up ...

Preybird MKII wrote:
A common problem I have encountered is the serial AFK cloaker. Log in, go deep-safe somewhere, and just leave and go to work for 8 - 12 hours.

So the problem is ...?

Quote:

I understand cloaking is a good chance for intel, but its only useful if you are active.

Exactly.

Quote:

An alternative solution to the cloak-fuel I have thought a fair bit about and quite plausable to a cloak, is a degredation of the cloak the longer it is activated continuously, and a cooldown as you approach the maximum cloak time.

It would work a little like this - You activate your cloak, and for the first 30 mins you can remained cloaked with no penalty. After the 30 mins, you begin to suffer a leeching of your signature radius which will gradually creep up over the next 30 mins, until the hour mark where your signature radius equals that of your uncloaked ship. Visually you will still remain cloaked, however you can be scanned which will allow proximity decloaking.
As well as the leech, after the 30 min mark of continuous activation, the cloak will incurr a 5 minute cooldown, with a further 5 mins added at the 45 min and 60min mark.

No cooldown or leeching in the first 30 mins of activation, so you can deactivate and reactivate as much as you want, which will reset the clock.

This will not disadvantage those who want to use the cloaks as they are intended, ...

How are cloaks "intended" to be used? Whose intentions are these?

Quote:

... and will not reduce the effectivness of the cloaked ship, but will purely stop people cloaking in a system and walking away for 12 - 23 hours.

Why would you want to do this? (See the first together with the second points above.)

There are a number of threads dealing with AFK cloaking. They propose "solutions" which differ from yours only in technical details of implementation. But they never go anywhere because they always fail to motivate why there is a problem that needs to be solved by a change of rules.

I predict much better success for your idea if you can come up with a coherent motivational argument from the outset: Why is an AFK player a threat to you? Otherwise, we'll see several pages of futile back-and-forth which essentially repeats previous threads, and whose length depends entirely on the quality of trolling involved.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2012-04-28 10:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Copy-pasted from another thread:

I wrote:
OP...

AFK cloaking was "born" because the instant you enter a system, you appear on local. Because you are now the ONLY non-blue person in local, the "natives" in that system will immediately dock/cloak/POS up until you leave or are destroyed.

The only way to get around this is to cloak up in some random spot in the system... and sit... often for hours. In doing this a cloaker "devalues" local as an intel tool and effectively forces the "native" to alter tactics.

How can you alter tactics? Easy.
- Spare a high and mid slot on your ratting battleship for a heavy energy neutralizer and a long point... and make enough room in your drone bay for 5 Warrior IIs. Congrats, you are now immune to Stealth Bombers (or, can escape them at the very least).
- Cloaky Recons got you down? Easy... they have a decloak timer of about 5 to 10 seconds where they cannot lock anything... add in actual locking time and you have a good 7 to 12 seconds where you can escape. If you stay aligned to something, you can warp off as soon as they appear on your overview.
- Are your haulers being popped at gates/jumpbridges? Before you move something have a fast locking, high-alpha Tempest/Tornado meet up with you at the gate/jumpbridge. Ships that use the Cov-ops cloak are quite fragile compared to other ships in their class... and most are not fitted for buffer (btw... fitting your hauler completely with cargo expanders means that you migh have trouble withstanding ONE lousy bomb).
- Move systems.
- If you real fear is not the cloaker itself, but the hotdrop they can call in... opt to using smaller and/or "cheaper" ships that you can escape/replace more easily. For example: an Ishtar may not be able to clear out a sanctum the way a Marauder can... but it's MUCH cheaper and faster (and "small" to boot, which means that torps won't be as effective against it).

How did you Veterans start?
Belshazzar Babylon
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-04-28 10:42:18 UTC
cloak-fuel

Wow what a new and exciting idea that has never been brought up before at all.

I'm sure CCP will jump right on this exciting new idea.
Graeme Rowney
For The Pink
#6 - 2012-04-28 11:02:11 UTC
Belshazzar Babylon wrote:
cloak-fuel

Wow what a new and exciting idea that has never been brought up before at all.

I'm sure CCP will jump right on this exciting new idea.


Read the thread thats not what its about ya ass hat!

The issue with afk cloaking is it messes up peoples enjoyment of the game not knowing if the person is there or not. What we need is no local or a way to tell an afk person like an away tag in local.
EveTestDummy
Kairiola's Legacy
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#7 - 2012-04-28 11:07:41 UTC

Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
Well, I predict much better success for your idea if you can come up with a coherent motivational argument from the outset: Why is an AFK player a threat to you? Otherwise, we'll see several pages of futile back-and-forth which essentially repeats previous threads, and whose length depends entirely on the quality of trolling involved.


Holy Crap Batman, someone offers a suggestion for constructive comment, and you don't have time to take it up and make any constructive comment, but you manage near a full page of "Trolling" on your own.

You 'Trolling" is completely negative in content without adding anything of use to the thread - Do you ever actually use you account for anything other than "Trolling" the forums?

I personally think Cloaking, and people who deliberatly cloak up in a system 23.5/7 and do nothing except deliberatly be there to disrupt other peoples game play is a worthwhile topic. The idea of a Cloak "Timing Out" so to speak as described is interesting.

You could have different timings and penalties for different Cloaking devices and ships, but ultimately you could be pinned down if the locals wanted to remove you from their system.

This would force peopel to actively play their account, not log on and do nothing except go out of their way to **** people off - A bit like being a negative Troll in the forums
Francisco Bizzaro
#8 - 2012-04-28 12:04:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Francisco Bizzaro
EveTestDummy wrote:

Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
I predict much better success for your idea if you can come up with a coherent motivational argument from the outset: Why is an AFK player a threat to you? Otherwise, we'll see several pages of futile back-and-forth which essentially repeats previous threads, and whose length depends entirely on the quality of trolling involved.


Holy Crap Batman, someone offers a suggestion for constructive comment, and you don't have time to take it up and make any constructive comment, but you manage near a full page of "Trolling" on your own.

You 'Trolling" is completely negative in content without adding anything of use to the thread - Do you ever actually use you account for anything other than "Trolling" the forums?

Read it again. I'm not sure there's anything very negative in that paragraph you quoted, just a bit cynical. (okay, a lot cynical.) And I did offer some advice which is kind of constructive.

The idea of cloak timers of one sort or another is not new. It has been debated over many (many) pages of these forums. The arguments always revolve around the same points, and the key points rarely depend on the technical details of the proposed cloak nerf.

Okay, this is F&I, so we can be creative here and kick new ideas around. But if the proposal is to change the rules, you need to provide a good motivation for the change - especially if you are planning a blanket nerf to a mechanic without a compensating buff.

The OP implies that AFK cloaking is universally regarded as a problem. I suggest the spectrum of opinion is broader than that, and you'll need to win over the doubters if you want the idea to fly.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#9 - 2012-04-28 13:03:24 UTC
What problem are you trying to solve here?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#10 - 2012-04-28 13:11:43 UTC
Oh look its this 'problem' again

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-04-28 16:43:19 UTC
I'm sorry to inform you that the daily "afk cloaking fix" thread has already been created. Therefore I am not allowed to make any meaningful contribution.
2ofSpades
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-04-28 16:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: 2ofSpades
AFK cloaking is a very important part of hunting PVE targets and it works like this.

-Pilgrim jumps in 0.0 system
-Pilgrim is reported on intel, All PVE'ers dock up or run to a different system.
-Pilgrim goes afk for hours.
-PVE'ers start running missions again in 4 to 6 hours because the pilgrim guy didnt leave and looks afk and the PVEers just cant stand sitting in station so they start coming back out.
-Pilgrims 6 hour wait has finally paid off and targets are back out.
-Pilgrim gets the kill.

I think the the only problem caused from afk cloaking is to a carebears mental state.

Edit::It would be cool to be able to scan down cloaked targets that are using prototype and improved cloaks after a certain amount of time. Example. Drake cloaks using an improved cloak, A timer starts and then in 1 hour the drake can be scanned. It does still remain cloaked after the 1 hour but it puts out a ship sig to the scanners. Same with prototype cloaks but you get less cloaked time without emiting a sig. The sig on the combat scanner should come up as cloaked ship with the hull size.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-04-28 18:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Preybird MKII wrote:
A common problem I have encountered is the serial AFK cloaker. Log in, go deep-safe somewhere, and just leave and go to work for 8 - 12 hours.
...
An alternative solution to the cloak-fuel I have thought a fair bit about and quite plausable to a cloak, is a degredation of the cloak the longer it is activated continuously, and a cooldown as you approach the maximum cloak time.

It would work a little like this - You activate your cloak, and for the first 30 mins you can remained cloaked with no penalty. After the 30 mins, you begin to suffer a leeching of your signature radius which will gradually creep up over the next 30 mins, until the hour mark where your signature radius equals that of your uncloaked ship. Visually you will still remain cloaked, however you can be scanned which will allow proximity decloaking.
As well as the leech, after the 30 min mark of continuous activation, the cloak will incurr a 5 minute cooldown, with a further 5 mins added at the 45 min and 60min mark.

....
Prey



nether idea is acceptable.. either one would cause trouble with non afk usage.. though I really hate the fuel idea the most as it takes an age to get in place for good recon (some times more than 50 jumps).... and you will run out of fuel for the return trip easily. The other idea would be trouble for blockade runners trying to get around gate camps and other things.

The bottom line is AFK cloaking does not effect you - the player is not there... The best solution is to remove all cloaked pilots from local.. that way you'll have no reason to complain about someone possibly not at their keyboard.....

Please stop making redundant threads as; this is one of the many... I'm going to go conservatively with 100s of threads on this topic.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-04-28 21:36:21 UTC
As an expert in AFK Cloaking I will now cloak up in the system you live in and kill you and your friends repeatedly until you learn how to actually deal will AFK Cloakers or until you abandon 'your' space for highsec. If you consider this a teaching experience, then you can only learn from your failures.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#15 - 2012-04-28 23:14:08 UTC
It's not a problem. Local Chat is a problem!

And as to the stupid fuel idea, if Cloaks require fuel so should every other active mod.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-29 02:34:26 UTC
Post-signing OP want cloaking nerfed.

Well I never!
Haulie Berry
#17 - 2012-04-29 07:58:06 UTC
Oh, look. Someone is mistaking a personal problem for a systemic problem.

Again.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-04-29 08:26:32 UTC
Dropping serial afks in your home system betch'es. Wuddup?!?
Kale Kold
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-29 09:20:21 UTC
Lets get to the real point in this discussion.

  • You want somebody's cloak removed because you don't feel safe.

Well, lets take the two only possible sides of the cloaked person.

  1. They are away from the keyboard and therefore they are no threat to you whatsoever.
  2. They are at the keyboard and are playing against you.

The first point shouldn't bother you, and the second point you should get used to because everybody is playing against you! That's the whole point of EVE!

These afk cloaking whines are always people basically saying "i want that cloak removed so that person gets killed and i can mine in peace."

It's the same as agreeing to play chess then telling the other person they are not allowed to take any pieces! Stop being such a wimp!

“Some people call me insane for the destruction I’ve caused, ...I believe I was just doing my duty!” -- Testimony submitted to Caldari Navy war crimes tribunal.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#20 - 2012-04-29 14:09:00 UTC
Cloak degrades over time? Cool story bro, please tell me more about it when I get back from writing a macro that double taps F1 once an hour.

Also, you don't understand or are deliberately ignoring the reason people use afk cloaking tactics.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
123Next pageLast page