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How highsec miners threaten EVE, and how we can stop them. Manifesto II.

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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#561 - 2012-04-28 15:09:38 UTC
Takseen wrote:


I subscribed to a game that had a vast, single-shard universe/server, a wealth of ship, module and skill choices, and a vast selection of space related activities to choose from. One of which was pvp, which I concluded was not in my interest any more then mining was. That game has not fundamentally changed since I arrived. Its the zealots on either side who want to either turf everyone bar the newbies out of highsec, or prevent all violence in highsec that are trying to fundamentally change the game. And I'm not a fan of that.


You represent/decribe the "compromise" state between PVPers and Carebears. However, as the OP points out, carebears are not interested in a compromise state and they confirmed it to him on several occasions.

None of the "pro leet PVPers" I had the chance to discuss this with said they were completely against a form of "safer" space. They are quite aware trial accounts need that space, as do the occasional solo or extremely casual players. But here is the catch: EVE can't be full of trial accounts, solo or extremely casual players.
Hamshoe
Doomheim
#562 - 2012-04-28 15:15:15 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:


You represent/decribe the "compromise" state between PVPers and Carebears. However, as the OP points out, carebears are not interested in a compromise state and they confirmed it to him on several occasions.



How convenient is it that the 'carebears" are all share an identical opinion? Not too mention that the OP was able to talk to them all.

I mean, except for that feature the kind of sweeping generalization the OP is peddling would be instantly recognized as utter BS.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#563 - 2012-04-28 15:27:06 UTC
Just Alter wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:

The worst part is that the OP actually covers the point you just made. Seriously.


He could have covered the Grandfather Paradox and the Unified Field Theory for all I can remember. The posts weren't well written enough for me to bother reading them at length. I'll go back and have a look so.


Don't go around blaming his ability to write as an excuse for your inability to read, understand or remember.



He could have said just as much with a quarter of the words. He could have written it a lot better too. If a point's worth making, its worth making well.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#564 - 2012-04-28 15:43:54 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:


The worst part is that the OP actually covers the point you just made. Seriously.


Ok I reread "how carebears killed nullsec pvp", as ridiculous as the idea was. I get what he was saying, you need someone or something for the pvpers on either side to fight over. At the time, it was mining fleets. Over time, miners presumably found this less and less appealing.

That horse has bolted, I don't think you can entice them back. You(or CCP) need to come up with another conflict driver in nullsec.


All that is required is a proper risk/reward distribution. Highsec gave too much rewards for the lack of risks. Hell, I would not mind there being a 100% safezone if the rewards there are 0%. Want 99% risks? Then you get 1% rewards. At least they can still be AFK and keep doing what they are doing, without the fear of losing their ship.

But wait, what? They ask for better rewards? Why do they even need rewards in the first place if they have nothing to replace. The argument falls flat pretty hard at this point. I'm sure if carebears described in the OP could mine docked in the station they would.


I disagree, I think the whole concept of needing a "worker caste" that the pvpers need to fight over in nullsec is not useful. It'd be like needing someone to play as the flag in Capture the Flag games.
Testerxnot Sheepherder
Get Isk or Die Mining
#565 - 2012-04-28 16:18:02 UTC
Ignorance is a major problem.

See: Goons
Jessie42
Eighty Joule Brewery
Goonswarm Federation
#566 - 2012-04-28 16:20:21 UTC
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:
Ignorance is a major problem.

See: Goons


Yep, Goons are the ignorant ones here.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#567 - 2012-04-28 16:21:49 UTC
Testerxnot Sheepherder wrote:
Ignorance is a major problem.

See: Snotshot


FTFY

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#568 - 2012-04-28 16:35:19 UTC
I have here a video of what the crowd discussed in the OP wants to turn our beloved EVE Online into.
http://youtu.be/cD69PAIqiYo

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Plekto
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#569 - 2012-04-28 16:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Plekto
Hatch Nasty,

There is a problem with your logic, though.

0.0 is controlled by essentially a bunch of mafia families of different sizes and you simply have to be LET IN as an individual. You cannot actually go there and make isk. Is this fair? I'm not going to judge here. It's just the way it's become. New players have virtually no opportunity to do anything BUT stay in high sec, which means mining and industry is practically forced upon them. It's become so bad that new player groups have decided to do things like Red vs Blue to create some sense of artificial player-driven combat in high sec.

The isk has to be moved to where it's the most risky and where neither side profits from staying where/as they are and maintaining the status quo. Because as it is, the game would honestly play better as two separate servers.

q: what's the most dangerous and least-traveled area in eve? You know where that is. Low Sec.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#570 - 2012-04-28 18:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
This thread has turned into ranting and is not constructive.

Thread locked.

Please use the Features & Ideas section if you have suggestions how to improve EVE Online, also I would like to point you to the CSM and the devblog discussions in the Information Portal.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer