These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Is a Gallente Destroyer (Catalyst) a good first step after frigates to learn fighting?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2011-09-28 19:08:01 UTC
For PvE I loved Destroyers for level 1 missions. You get a free Destroyer at the end of the advanced military career tutorial so why not give it a shot? They get a bonus to range so fit some long range weapons and you pretty much can kill everything before it gets close enough to shoot you. I used my Destroyer for ratting in 0.5 belts too.

I guess a lot of people skip them because they are not perfect ships but I think they are a fun step up from frigates while you are working on training your core abilities or working toward cruisers.
Arvantis Sauril
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-09-28 21:34:13 UTC


Hey Actual,

Being a fellow Gallente and EVE newbie I wholly empathize with your question. The Tristan is an awesome little fat pig, but I just don't think we have the skill set yet to bring the most out of her. (In terms of both SP and actual combat experience.)

For PVE I highly recommend buying a Vexor and training Drones to V and all the supporting Drone skills to 3. They will chew through missions, fatten your wallet and raise your standing. Or if you really want to do missions in a Frigate, I would actually recommend the Catalyst for 1's. (yes I know its not a frigate) The 8 guns and high range will kill most npc's before they ever get in range, whereas (from personal experience anyway) in the Tristan or Incursus I've often found myself taking fire from multiple missile boats where I can only effectively destroy one at a time.


PVP, yes, stay in a frig.
Wa'roun
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2011-09-29 00:25:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Wa'roun
You can't beat having destroyer skills to 5, small t2 280mm artys, 2 targeting rigs, one small ANC rig, dual res scripted sebos, in a pvp squad camping gates insta popping frigates, pods and two/three shotting cruisers/bc (depending on number of thrashers).
Bloody Wench
#24 - 2011-09-29 01:56:56 UTC
Actual Simulations wrote:
I want to specialize in fighting but I'm still a real newbie here. I have just finished the military tutorial and am currently flying a Gallente Tristan. I was doing some research on what would be a good next step for me and a Destroyer seemed like a natural choice.

Does that make sense? Does anyone have general tips for using a Catalyst?

So far, I've been using Rail Guns I with Tungsten charges in the Tristan. I orbit enemies at about 7500m and it's been working for me so far but I know nothing. Thanks!



Change now before you get sucked into the whole hybid / drones combo.

Rifter is king of the frigates. Auto Cannons are current FOTM but it's only small guns so it's what? A week?

Skip Destroyers completely, after level 1 if you must train it at all. Noctis is very short training and surpasses the Catalyst in every regard as a salvager.
Assult frigates I prefer the vengenace (amarr)
Interceptors Gallente is best, but I still prefer the malediction because it looks the coolest, not because it's awesome in any other way.

Just what ever you do dont stay with hybids as a weapon platform. AC>Lasers>Missiles>Hybrids IMO.

[u]**Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: **[/u]  CCP should not only make local delayed in highsec, but they should also require one be undocked to use it. Then, even the local spammers have some skin in the game. Support a High Resolution Texture Pack
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-09-29 02:43:09 UTC
To the OP,

I am of the opinion that staying in frigates is a great move. Keep your tristan and use it. Also get one of each other Gallente frigate and try them out too, find where they are good and have a go at creating a new role for them.

I think Destroyers are a pretty vital step for newbies. Yes they have many drawbacks, yes they need skills to be effective.

But thats just it: get a destroyer and fit it out, see what works and what doesn't. show your fit to others and see where it can be improved. You will need some skills to make it effective, so you have to train up. but then those skills are with you forever.

Use a Catalyst to train yourself, and when you step up to cruisers, you have a better idea of how they work.

And yes, dessys are fun to use for nul sec belt ratting, they can take BSs out pretty effectively while staying under their guns!

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#26 - 2011-09-29 06:51:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Zoe Alarhun
I've been flying gallente almost exclusively the last month or two - training up their frigates and guns. The Tristan is a BEAST of a pvp frigate BUT requires' more time and learning to get used to.

You will need half decent drone skills - The tristan carries a drone which contributes well to it's damage.
You will need hald decent missile skills - The rockets you can fit are nice because they don't rely on tracking.
You will need decent blaster skills - your ship bonuses are both geared to this gun type.

Followed by the usual rig marole of fitting skills, propulsion etc. Even a T1 fit tristan has very respectable damage and tank. I've been flying this:

[Tristan, Tristan Rocket Blaster Armor]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
1MN Afterburner II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I


Hobgoblin II x1

That should provide you a decent baseline to work towards and isn't crazy difficult to fit. It handles well and can take most other T1 Frigs/destroyers and come out on top. OH also - the other advantage to this fit for newer players is that hybrid rigs are dirt cheap. A couple of thousand isk as opposed to hundreds/millions. So make sure to train up hybrid weapon rigging.
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-09-29 08:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Since you're still at frigate and a fairly new pilot, I'd strongly suggest training away from Hybrids and any skill that starts with "Gallente". Sticking with ships and guns that are pretty much useless for 99% of Eve's activities will only frustrate you. CCP is promising a fix/buff but don't expect one before, like, 2014.

From your post I figure you want to get into PvP. If that's the case, pick up ship skills that start with "Minmatar" and skills that have the words "Projectile turret" or "Autocannon" in them. In doing so you will make sure you can actually contribute to fights within a reasonable timeframe. Being a specialist, however, will take time because you'll (eventually) be needing Guns, Missiles, Drones, Shields and Arnor skills. As a bonus, if you reach that specialization point, nobody will be able to touch you.

If PvE is your thing, forget about any skills in the Gunnery category and find the section "Missile Launcher Operation". You won't regret it. As for ships you'll be looking for stuff that says "Caldari" and has a lot of missile hardpoints. Kestrel into Caracal into Drake is a fairly easy path to success. Think 2-3 months here to afk level 4 missions.

If you're undecided and want to experience a bit of both, Energy Turrets and Amarr ships will be your friend. This line of ships/weapon systems is not particularly good at any activity, but can hold its own in both PvP and PvE. As a bonus they're also fairly easy to "max out" as their ships basically all have the same fitting.

TL;DR

Minmatar / projectiles - op for PvP
Caldari / missiles - op for PvE
Amarr / lasers - nice for PvP, nice for PvE
Gallente / hybrids - useless for PvP, useless for PvE
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#28 - 2011-09-30 13:41:53 UTC
That's not entirely accurate Shayla Sh'inlux:

Gallente Drone ships are very good for running missions. Vexor >Myrmidon>Dominix progression.
Hybrids are prefectly fine for assault ships, inties, frigs, etc.
Medium Hybrids are even pretty decent see thorax, brutix, Myrmidon.
The Neut domi is fearsome in pvp, and megathrons can still do some pretty evil stuff.

I don't think you've used gallente ships and are simply jumping onto the minmatar is teh bestest ever and gallente can't do anything bandwagon.
Princess Nexxala
Zero Syndicate
#29 - 2011-09-30 17:52:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Nexxala
Stop training Gallente immediately and switch to Minmatar, you will not regret it. Go back to gal when you decide to get into Recons or you decide to start flying pirate faction boats (daredevil, dram, cyn, etc).

Today PvP in Eve is all about speed and damage projection, gallente suck at both.

Oh and BTW Thrashers are sick for PvP, don't skip destroyers at all.

nom nom
Actual Simulations
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-10-03 19:04:04 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
I've been flying gallente almost exclusively the last month or two - training up their frigates and guns. The Tristan is a BEAST of a pvp frigate BUT requires' more time and learning to get used to.

You will need half decent drone skills - The tristan carries a drone which contributes well to it's damage.
You will need hald decent missile skills - The rockets you can fit are nice because they don't rely on tracking.
You will need decent blaster skills - your ship bonuses are both geared to this gun type.

Followed by the usual rig marole of fitting skills, propulsion etc. Even a T1 fit tristan has very respectable damage and tank. I've been flying this:

[Tristan, Tristan Rocket Blaster Armor]
Damage Control II
200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Small Armor Repairer II

J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
'Langour' Drive Disruptor I
1MN Afterburner II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Ambit Extension I
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I


Hobgoblin II x1

That should provide you a decent baseline to work towards and isn't crazy difficult to fit. It handles well and can take most other T1 Frigs/destroyers and come out on top. OH also - the other advantage to this fit for newer players is that hybrid rigs are dirt cheap. A couple of thousand isk as opposed to hundreds/millions. So make sure to train up hybrid weapon rigging.



That setup looks very interesting to me. How do I fight in that though? Close range blaster fire supplemented by rockets and the drone?
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#31 - 2011-10-03 19:45:58 UTC
Pretty much land ontop of your target if you can (else overheat your web, scram and ab to get in range fast). Orbit tightly and start ripping him a new one with anti matter + Rockets + drone. Use the repper as needed - either you'll die before you cap out or he will. It's the balls to the wall way of fighting.
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-10-07 15:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
That's not entirely accurate Shayla Sh'inlux:

Gallente Drone ships are very good for running missions. Vexor >Myrmidon>Dominix progression.
Hybrids are prefectly fine for assault ships, inties, frigs, etc.
Medium Hybrids are even pretty decent see thorax, brutix, Myrmidon.
The Neut domi is fearsome in pvp, and megathrons can still do some pretty evil stuff.

I don't think you've used gallente ships and are simply jumping onto the minmatar is teh bestest ever and gallente can't do anything bandwagon.


Actually I can almost fly nothing but Gallente. I've sank 13 million SP into Gunnery and can only shoot hybrids. I've devoted about 20 million skillpoints in Space Ship Command to stuff that is related to Gallente although I eventually branched out to Caldari and trained an alt into Winmatar. Heck, I even maxed out the (prretty useless) Leadership skills that the (even more useless) Eos is bonused on.

I've had my months of utter domination when Nosferatus were broken beyond belief or when the Thorax still had a ridonculous drone bay or when oversized Afterburners would actually make sense on an inty. But those months are incomparable to the joys that Winmatar have been getting in the Nanofag period and have been enjoying for the past //years// after the totally overdone projectile buff.

Gallente used to be insanely good a few years ago, but every other race/gun type around them has been buffed way above that level, while drones, hybrids and -most important- MWDs got nerfed. Their ships and guns have been useless for years and posts like yours are are just people trying to justify 2 years worth of training time into useless crap.

Winmatar is by a LONG shot the very best at everything that is PvP.* Similarly, Caldari is by a LONG shot the very best at PvE, until you get into faction boats or Marauders, where ships that shoot projectile turrets are once again themost efficient (think Mach and Vargur here). The obvious progression for PvE is basically Kestrel -> Caracal -> Drake -> Tengu. That is actually reasonably quick to train and once you get there, you can devote 100% of your training time into Winmater and PROjectiles and be good at everything related to FiS.

* I don't count blobbing Supercaps as actualy PvP.
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#33 - 2011-10-08 06:49:39 UTC
The last kill on your battleclinic with that character is more than 2 years ago. Do you still actively PVP or are you going off your experience from when you used to pvp ? Also I've only training gallente for about 2.5 months now, I actually trained away from minmatar.

Regardless of what you say - people actively pvping will agree that:

Small hybrids are fine and gallente have many frigs that are fine. Ishkur, Tristan, Incursus, Enyo, Taranis etc

If you are in to PVE stuff the progression from Frig/catalyst to Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix is good. (senty domi with full rack of guns is good damage wise and you can finish missions in an fun and efficient manner).

Gallente Faction frigs are also good - dare devil does crazy damage and looks awesome.
If he wants to tank level 5's he can train into a rattlesnake since he's half way there from domi.
The gila makes a pretty awesome PVE ship as well for missions and exploration.

Because you fly gallente you are more likely to get fights in low sec because people underestimate you.
Many pieces of hybrid equipment are cheaper due to lower demand.
Many Gallente ships are cheaper than their counterparts.
This makes losses easier in the beginning when you are learning and don't have a crazy income.

Since the OP stated a desire to carry on using his frigate now, expecially for learning PVP there is nothing bad about them.
m0cking bird
Doomheim
#34 - 2011-10-08 10:53:45 UTC
Pretty much all destroyers out class navy faction frigates, pirate faction frigates, Interceptors and most t2 frigates. At least, when it comes to direct combat.

I've flown them all. Personally I think the Coercer and Thrasher are on another level compared to the others, but the Cormorant and Catalyst are still more than worth it for the price.

There is only 2 assault ships that I would use over a Thrasher or Coercer. Ishkur and Retribution. The rest don't seem worth it. On the Interceptor side I only use the Taranis and Stiletto, but for direct combat I prefer destroyers, because of cost and performance.

They're cheap to lose and do ALOT of damage. You can pull off 400dps setups if you want to go more ganky, but this one does 300dps 2 optimal (provided you can track), with antimatter. @ 8k with null loaded the turrets do 100dps alone. With a damage drone it does 120dps @ 8k.

[Catalyst, Blast It!]
Damage Control II
Small Armor Repairer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster I


Hornet EC-300 x1
Shayla Sh'inlux
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-10-08 11:04:33 UTC
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
The last kill on your battleclinic with that character is more than 2 years ago. Do you still actively PVP or are you going off your experience from when you used to pvp ?


I obviously don't PvP on this character anymore. I have a proper Minmatar alt for that.


Quote:

Regardless of what you say - people actively pvping will agree that:

Small hybrids are fine and gallente have many frigs that are fine. Ishkur, Tristan, Incursus, Enyo, Taranis etc

If you are in to PVE stuff the progression from Frig/catalyst to Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix is good. (senty domi with full rack of guns is good damage wise and you can finish missions in an fun and efficient manner).

Gallente Faction frigs are also good - dare devil does crazy damage and looks awesome.
If he wants to tank level 5's he can train into a rattlesnake since he's half way there from domi.
The gila makes a pretty awesome PVE ship as well for missions and exploration.

Because you fly gallente you are more likely to get fights in low sec because people underestimate you.
Many pieces of hybrid equipment are cheaper due to lower demand.
Many Gallente ships are cheaper than their counterparts.
This makes losses easier in the beginning when you are learning and don't have a crazy income.

Since the OP stated a desire to carry on using his frigate now, expecially for learning PVP there is nothing bad about them.


Regardless of what *you* say, if the OPs intention is to PvP it makes *no sense whatsoever* to train Gallente boats because Minmatar hulls and projectiles completely outclass them in *every* way. If you're a young character that doesn't already have months or years of training in certain ship or gun classes the *only* correct advice is "train Minmatar".
Zoe Alarhun
The Proactive Reappropriation Corporation
#36 - 2011-10-08 17:03:23 UTC
Shayla Sh'inlux wrote:
Zoe Alarhun wrote:
The last kill on your battleclinic with that character is more than 2 years ago. Do you still actively PVP or are you going off your experience from when you used to pvp ?


I obviously don't PvP on this character anymore. I have a proper Minmatar alt for that.


Quote:

Regardless of what you say - people actively pvping will agree that:

Small hybrids are fine and gallente have many frigs that are fine. Ishkur, Tristan, Incursus, Enyo, Taranis etc

If you are in to PVE stuff the progression from Frig/catalyst to Vexor, Myrmidon, Dominix is good. (senty domi with full rack of guns is good damage wise and you can finish missions in an fun and efficient manner).

Gallente Faction frigs are also good - dare devil does crazy damage and looks awesome.
If he wants to tank level 5's he can train into a rattlesnake since he's half way there from domi.
The gila makes a pretty awesome PVE ship as well for missions and exploration.

Because you fly gallente you are more likely to get fights in low sec because people underestimate you.
Many pieces of hybrid equipment are cheaper due to lower demand.
Many Gallente ships are cheaper than their counterparts.
This makes losses easier in the beginning when you are learning and don't have a crazy income.

Since the OP stated a desire to carry on using his frigate now, expecially for learning PVP there is nothing bad about them.


Regardless of what *you* say, if the OPs intention is to PvP it makes *no sense whatsoever* to train Gallente boats because Minmatar hulls and projectiles completely outclass them in *every* way. If you're a young character that doesn't already have months or years of training in certain ship or gun classes the *only* correct advice is "train Minmatar".



Hybrid buff incoming in winter expansion.
Previous page12