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How highsec miners threaten EVE, and how we can stop them. Manifesto II.

First post
Author
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#461 - 2012-04-28 00:24:52 UTC
Torneach wrote:
Is anybody else noticing a parallel between the OP and a certain fascist dictator in a land called Germany in the 1930s?


Mussolini was from Italy, not Germany.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2012-04-28 00:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Corbin Blair wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Corbin Blair wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire? Lol

Yes, yes there are. My last null corp had a guy that could barely fly a BC. I myself joined it when that character was about a month old and could also barely fly a bc. We joined at about the same time and were the corp "newbies" together, although I had experience already and just had a new character. He was completely new at the game, but both of us were out on PvP roams with them in under a week after joining. They even let me use thoraxes at first because I didn't want to have to replace more expensive ships yet and we were too small to have a reimbursement policy. On nights where we did group PvE in the complexes they even let the two of us newbies keep the salvage for ourselves. It was our job to kill the cruisers and frigates to save the battleships the annoyance of trying to hit them. The only thing keeping you from going to 0.0 is yourself. Hell even goons accept newbies in frigates as long as they hang out on the something awful forum.

His question seems more focused on PvE'ers and industrialist that new players.

I thought my answer made it clear that if a month old newbie with less SP and knowledge of the game can go to 0.0 then it should be extremely easy for an experienced PvE player. I meant it as a "if he can do it so can you" kind of thing. I was trying to show that people are quite accommodating and helpful as long as you show a willingness to learn and participate.

Maybe I'm misreading the intent of the question then. What I'm seeing is a question of "If my primary activities are not PvP, am I welcome by people who live in PvP space?" This is considerably different from asking, "I'm new, can I PvP with you guys?"
Torneach
Doomheim
#463 - 2012-04-28 00:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Torneach
Takseen wrote:
Torneach wrote:
Is anybody else noticing a parallel between the OP and a certain fascist dictator in a land called Germany in the 1930s?


Mussolini was from Italy, not Germany.


The 1930s political system in Germany can be considered fascism.
Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#464 - 2012-04-28 00:27:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin Blair
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
- If you want to join a 0.0 corp as PvEer you are seen as worthless garbage.


He said he was willing to learn to PvP. Most people don't have a problem with PvE. It's not like nullbears don't PvE all the time themselves. What they have a problem with is people refusing to pull their own weight and sit there and mine while everyone else is out dying.

Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

- If you want to join a 0.0 corp as industrialist they tell "lol we already have indy alts nor we'll give you access to the POSes".

- If you want to join a 0.0 corp as miner they tell you "LOL no we don't want botters".

Join a different corp then. They sound like muppets anyway. You're obviously not going to get POS access on day one in any corp though for security reasons.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Maybe I'm misreading the intent of the question then. What I'm seeing is a question of "If my primary activities are not PvP, am I welcome by people who live in PvP space?" This is considerably different from asking, "I'm new, can I PvP with you guys?"

It did specifically say that he was willing to learn PvP.
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#465 - 2012-04-28 00:27:40 UTC
What are you OP, some kind of EvE Breivik? Stick your manifestos where the sun don't shine, you backwards inbred lunatic.
Merivel Mar
Decore Utin Motus
#466 - 2012-04-28 00:31:26 UTC
I didn't read this crap but I have a question... Ever seen The Mattani Naked?
Corbin Blair
Doomheim
#467 - 2012-04-28 00:32:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Corbin Blair
Merivel Mar wrote:
I didn't read this crap but I have a question... Ever seen The Mattani Naked?

If I did it would be on youtube. :P

Borsek wrote:
What are you OP, some kind of EvE Breivik? Stick your manifestos where the sun don't shine, you backwards inbred lunatic.

Spewing random insults at a well written post without offering any counterpoint or actual opinion of your own doesn't make him look like an inbred lunatic.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#468 - 2012-04-28 00:34:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Corbin Blair wrote:

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Maybe I'm misreading the intent of the question then. What I'm seeing is a question of "If my primary activities are not PvP, am I welcome by people who live in PvP space?" This is considerably different from asking, "I'm new, can I PvP with you guys?"

I read it as more like "I'm mainly interested in PvE, but am willing to learn to PvP with you guys too if you'll teach me." It did specifically say that he was willing to learn PvP.

Willingness to learn PvP on some level would be necessary in both situations. Both should be willing, in the case of null, to join HD fleets and CTA's to contribute, but what about the guy that would rather scan for cosmic sigs than go on a roam?
Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#469 - 2012-04-28 00:38:18 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Fuujin wrote:


And if the argument is "4 people shouldn't be able to kill my one guy" then...I have no words to adequately describe that level of callow bleating.



I'd be more annoyed at the fact that 4 people can kill one guy, and his 3(or 6, or 16) friends can't do anything about it.


Can't? More like won't. Go gank the gankers, that's doing something about it. Learn to fly and fit a destroyer. There's nothing except your own apathy preventing you from taking action and fighting back.

Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#470 - 2012-04-28 00:41:00 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Fuujin wrote:


And if the argument is "4 people shouldn't be able to kill my one guy" then...I have no words to adequately describe that level of callow bleating.



I'd be more annoyed at the fact that 4 people can kill one guy, and his 3(or 6, or 16) friends can't do anything about it.


Can't? More like won't. Go gank the gankers, that's doing something about it. Learn to fly and fit a destroyer. There's nothing except your own apathy preventing you from taking action and fighting back.


Suicide gank destroyers in destroyers? When the targets are likely to be experienced combat vets or disposable alts? And as you've admitted, there's no way to pre-empt the gank, and Concord already provides immediate retaliation.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#471 - 2012-04-28 00:42:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Maybe I'm misreading the intent of the question then. What I'm seeing is a question of "If my primary activities are not PvP, am I welcome by people who live in PvP space?" This is considerably different from asking, "I'm new, can I PvP with you guys?"


You have the original intent bang on, my primary activities are PVE, I can fly most T1 stuff up to battleship (some of it badly but meh)

I fit my ships for PVE, they don't last long in a PVP enviroment, I know this through losing ships to roving gangs in WH's.

Non one sided PVP would be an experience I'm sure.

I see a lot of biatching about how all hisec dwellers are carebears and thus are useless wastes of DNA, but the moment we try to improve ourselves and involve ourselves in other aspects of the game we're laughed at and told to GTFO or GBTW. It doesn't matter if you PVP or PVE in hisec you're deemed to be scum and not worthy of trying to expand your horizons.

Some of us want to expand our horizons, we'd like to get involved in the politics, wars, landgrabs and all the other goodies in lo and null, but we're not welcome and until this changes there is always going to be a massive divide between hisec and everywhere else.

I along with no doubt many others are totally willing to pull our weight in PvP, sacrifice ourselves to get tackle, go out in a blaze of glory and all that, but we not even deemed worthy of that in most cases.

Sometimes I wish that when I started to play I'd gone straight to lo/null sec and learnt to die in style, unfortunately the first experience many players have of these areas is one sided PVP where they get Instagibbed. The tutorials don't encourage the PVP lifestyle, as far as many are concerned PvE is the game, because they don't know any better.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#472 - 2012-04-28 00:52:18 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sometimes I wish that when I started to play I'd gone straight to lo/null sec and learnt to die in style, unfortunately the first experience many players have of these areas is one sided PVP where they get Instagibbed. The tutorials don't encourage the PVP lifestyle, as far as many are concerned PvE is the game, because they don't know any better.

Yep! Well I haven't been blown up in a rifter by a glancing blow from an Avatar, but you know how things are ~

There are serious legitimate issues with spys in nullsec, among other things. Definitely though, the "extra-EVE" communities have an advantage of a sort over the recruitment channel/forum "community".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Velicitia
XS Tech
#473 - 2012-04-28 00:54:20 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Going back to a post I made earlier about how I would love to move my PVE operations to lo/null, are there actually any corps/alliances based in these areas that would welcome a PVE player who wants to continue with PVE, has no experience of PVP but would be willing to learn even if it's only as cannon fodder/hero tackle? Or am I still a worthless pubbie who deserves to die in a fire?


Yes

Yes (if you're asking a Goon) Roll

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Siobhan MacLeary
Doomheim
#474 - 2012-04-28 00:56:53 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Fuujin wrote:


And if the argument is "4 people shouldn't be able to kill my one guy" then...I have no words to adequately describe that level of callow bleating.



I'd be more annoyed at the fact that 4 people can kill one guy, and his 3(or 6, or 16) friends can't do anything about it.


Can't? More like won't. Go gank the gankers, that's doing something about it. Learn to fly and fit a destroyer. There's nothing except your own apathy preventing you from taking action and fighting back.


Suicide gank destroyers in destroyers? When the targets are likely to be experienced combat vets or disposable alts? And as you've admitted, there's no way to pre-empt the gank, and Concord already provides immediate retaliation.


Even trying to fight back will win you some respect. The point isn't to prevent the gank or to retaliate, the point is to show some goddamn backbone and punch someone in the face for f--king with you.

Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.” - CCP Soundwave

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#475 - 2012-04-28 00:59:12 UTC
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:

Even trying to fight back will win you some respect. The point isn't to prevent the gank or to retaliate, the point is to show some goddamn backbone and punch someone in the face for f--king with you.


Can't prevent the gank and can't retaliate, but can get "respect" from goons. Sounds great!
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#476 - 2012-04-28 00:59:44 UTC
Borsek wrote:
What are you OP, some kind of EvE Breivik? Stick your manifestos where the sun don't shine, you backwards inbred lunatic.


I like how you compare someone writing words about a video game to an unapologetic child killer and terrorist. If anyone here has issues it is you.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#477 - 2012-04-28 00:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Yep! Well I haven't been blown up in a rifter by a glancing blow from an Avatar, but you know how things are ~

There are serious legitimate issues with spys in nullsec, among other things. Definitely though, the "extra-EVE" communities have an advantage of a sort over the recruitment channel/forum "community".


I completely understand the issues with spies and corp thefts in null alliances, security is obviously a risk and TBFH anybody that gives a newish member of their corp hangar and POS access totally deserves to be robbed blind.

As an example of this, my other char on this account is an ex wormhole dweller who was in a small 12 man corp, the CEO of the corp no longer plays but when he did, myself and him were the only 2 consistent members of that corp, even though I'd been with the corp since its inception it was only in the run up to us closing down operations that I got POS access etc; this is how it should be and if I ever had my own POS I'd be exactly the same.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Runar Hawk
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#478 - 2012-04-28 01:02:05 UTC
Borsek wrote:
What are you OP, some kind of EvE Breivik? Stick your manifestos where the sun don't shine, you backwards inbred lunatic.


yeah, this
Marvin
Galactic Special Forces
#479 - 2012-04-28 01:15:29 UTC
Borsek wrote:
What are you OP, some kind of EvE Breivik? Stick your manifestos where the sun don't shine, you backwards inbred lunatic.

This...
Broken Thoughts
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#480 - 2012-04-28 01:28:52 UTC
james315 = instalike
bookmarked for a nice read tomorrow