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How highsec miners threaten EVE, and how we can stop them. Manifesto II.

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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#321 - 2012-04-27 16:53:22 UTC
I enjoyed reading that, thankyou
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#322 - 2012-04-27 16:55:30 UTC
Righteous bump.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#323 - 2012-04-27 16:56:39 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I am also NOT a miner.

But you ARE a terrible poster.


And a former member of OWN Alliance, ahahahaha

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Hamshoe
Doomheim
#324 - 2012-04-27 16:58:25 UTC
Drago Palermus wrote:

You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules.


SandBOX.

Rules are intrinsic.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#325 - 2012-04-27 17:00:50 UTC
Hamshoe wrote:
Drago Palermus wrote:

You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules.


SandBOX.

Rules are intrinsic.

This guy gets it.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#326 - 2012-04-27 17:01:27 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I am also NOT a miner.

But you ARE a terrible poster.


And a former member of OWN Alliance, ahahahaha

And you are a member of Goonswarm. Much more laughable than my corp history for sure. What's your point?

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2012-04-27 17:02:58 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

what are the anti ganking nerfs that have been put into effect lately? The only real one I know of was the insurance thing but EVERY GANKER EVER says that wasnt imporant anyways
or thats what they kept saying after the change was made.

They made tier 3 BCs with battleship guns and no tank to speak of. They are in effect ganking role ships.


There's also the fact that offensive dps increases have massively outstripped increases in tank for miners. T2 guns, faction ammo, artillery buffed to be alpha gods, a whole heap of different skills that can be dumped into dps increases, and not a whole lot that can increase your tank, especially passive tank.

If you constantly buff a pirate's ability to lock and kill ****, and only buff a miner's mining yield, suicide ganking is just the natural progression.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#328 - 2012-04-27 17:03:13 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread.


So what would you classify me as, hmmm?

I didn't say anything about your posts and haven't actually read any of them. So if after reading my post you you think I'm talking about you, then you're projecting your opinions onto my post.

In that case the person who thinks you're miner, or at least posts like a miner is you.
Whambot
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#329 - 2012-04-27 17:10:13 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
3807 views already.
Assuming that the average reader needed 20 minutes to read that manifesto, that would be a total of 1269 hours that people spent reading this.
Assuming all of them have jobs and earn an average of 12 $ per hour, that would be 15228 $ of RL currency destroyed by OP.
You are taking that economical warfare thing to whole new level, James.
Congratulations on a job well done.


Those are two giant assumptions both of which are probably wrong.
I dont think half the people commenting read that giant essay, myself included.

Based on the amount of time the OP had to put in to making this post I'd say his life is probably a $$ faucet.
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#330 - 2012-04-27 17:11:01 UTC
Interesting reading for sure. I guess I'm an anomoly, perhaps because of the length of time I've been playing as the OP suggests.

I don't want to remove PvP from highsec, despite being an industrialist, and yes indeed, a miner.

Honestly, how long to you think CCP can hold out against the droves of subscriber dollars they'd rake in if they "safezoned" highsec? We got a wee sniff of CCP's lust for money with Incarna...which was an attempt to bring in players who want something other than unrestricted PvP as the entirety of their gaming experience in EvE.

You think they'll cave in anytime soon, or hold out for the niche PvP boys forever?

I could care less. I'm doing my thing making stuff for you guys to blow up. Creation is so much more satisfying than destruction.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#331 - 2012-04-27 17:15:13 UTC
Takseen wrote:
There's also the fact that offensive dps increases have massively outstripped increases in tank for miners. T2 guns, faction ammo, artillery buffed to be alpha gods, a whole heap of different skills that can be dumped into dps increases, and not a whole lot that can increase your tank, especially passive tank.

If you constantly buff a pirate's ability to lock and kill ****, and only buff a miner's mining yield, suicide ganking is just the natural progression.

If you continually allow everyone in high sec to easily evade war decs, and to continue earning non-meaningless amounts of ISK, then suicide ganking is the natural progression. In fact, it is the only course of action left.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
L4ST
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2012-04-27 17:16:00 UTC  |  Edited by: L4ST
Let Highsec be safe, and make it too small to hold all players which there currently are. Safeplayers shall be safe, but without all the profit.

And give more expensive Insurances with way more payout. Makes ppl care less about being blown up, even the Jews.


btw lol @ all "qq u all carebears!"-guys with 5 bil+ in their wallet.



A big problem of EVE for carebears (consider myself a carebear right now) also is that its extremely unfair and not rewarding at all. Fly out, gatecamp, byebye, even lost that pod.
Better: Fly out, see a gang, "oh ****", run like hell, try to escape, manage to escape, "yaaay" - don't manage to escape: damn. Imo right now its jump a gate => tackled or gatecamp = dead; not in tackle range and no bubble => lol I'm out, **** your effort.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#333 - 2012-04-27 17:17:58 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I am also NOT a miner.

Looks like a miner, smells like a miner, whines like a miner.

Yup, seems like a pretty straight forward case of denial.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Kerist Lafayette
The Lafayette Family
#334 - 2012-04-27 17:19:18 UTC
James 315 wrote:
By the time you finish reading this Manifesto II,


Still a virgin, I see. Well, never give up hope
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#335 - 2012-04-27 17:20:56 UTC
L4ST wrote:
Let Highsec be safe, and make it too small to hold all players which there currently are. Safeplayers shall be safe, but without all the profit.

And give more expensive Insurances with way more payout. Makes ppl care less about being blown up, even the Jews.


btw lol @ all "qq u all carebears!"-guys with 5 bil+ in their wallet.

Pfft, 5b is for poor people.

And none of us are denying being care bears, I even know a few goons that spend most of their time bearing it up, what we do object to is to risk averse high sec carebears that want to kill PvP and just sit in their high sec safe zones with tol barad guards concord fighting their fights for them.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2012-04-27 17:21:37 UTC
Drago Palermus wrote:

(In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.)


And player subs would be measured in the hundreds, or at best thousands. Cast your eyes across the MMO genre, and try and spot any of them with similar engagement rules, and check their subscriber numbers. Only one I'm aware of that fits the bill is Mortal Online, and that game is tiny. Carebears keep CCP solvent, griefers make it unique and interesting. Extremists who want to cater only to one of these groups should not be catered to.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#337 - 2012-04-27 17:23:44 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Drago Palermus wrote:

(In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.)


And player subs would be measured in the hundreds, or at best thousands. Cast your eyes across the MMO genre, and try and spot any of them with similar engagement rules, and check their subscriber numbers. Only one I'm aware of that fits the bill is Mortal Online, and that game is tiny. Carebears keep CCP solvent, griefers make it unique and interesting. Extremists who want to cater only to one of these groups should not be catered to.

Concord was not omnipotent when Eve was created, subscriptions still rose steadily and Eve's reputation was, if anything, even greater than it is now.

Eve's reputation has been damaged by every single care bear orientated expansion they have ever released, going further down that route seems unwise in the extreme.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Velicitia
XS Tech
#338 - 2012-04-27 17:24:11 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread.


So what would you classify me as, hmmm?

I didn't say anything about your posts and haven't actually read any of them. So if after reading my post you you think I'm talking about you, then you're projecting your opinions onto my post.

In that case the person who thinks you're miner, or at least posts like a miner is you.


Nope, nothing like that at all.

I happen to be a miner, but I'm definitely not one of the whiny ones that want CCP to nerf hisec into the ground so that it's a completely safe haven.

I hate getting lumped in with themBig smile



One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Wille Sanara
No Shoosting
#339 - 2012-04-27 17:29:02 UTC
Show us on the doll, where the miners touched you.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#340 - 2012-04-27 17:29:51 UTC
Xython wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Hi sec miners are the main low ends providers. Whatever you do to them, ANY kind of reduction of their yield, will reflect in double digits % prices increase.
The less of them / the less efficient of them you get, the higher you pay them.


"It's ok that we bot and use cheat programs to prevent us from ever having to face death, because THE ECONOMY NEEDS US."



"I can also fart unrelated crap in general directions."

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