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Crime & Punishment

 
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Why all the hate for miners?
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FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-04-23 09:18:23 UTC  |  Edited by: FeralShadow
Haven't read most of the posts here, but generally speaking from a pvper's standpoint it's the bullheaded ignorance demonstrated by a large majority of miners that really infuriate the gankers. The miners are typically ignorant about their safety, and expect to be safe everywhere. It's demonstrated ignorance about their safety, ignorance about pvp mechanics, and the way the miners will do anything humanly possible to avoid confrontation. It used to be miners would band together with protection to fend off enemies. Now, miners are lazy and go to noob corps where they can't be decced, thus the proliferation of suicide ganking. If they can't war dec you, they'll get you another way.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#82 - 2012-04-23 12:42:22 UTC
foxnod wrote:
The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.


You are a first class uneducated dumbass.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#83 - 2012-04-23 17:33:58 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
foxnod wrote:
The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.


You are a first class uneducated dumbass.


Ah, the truth. It stings, doesn't it? Would you enjoy a moist calamine towelette to ease your pain? Or perhaps a Light Neutron Blaster II treatment? I hear it's quite effective. Pirate
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#84 - 2012-04-23 17:44:57 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
foxnod wrote:
The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.


You are a first class uneducated dumbass.


Ah, the truth. It stings, doesn't it? Would you enjoy a moist calamine towelette to ease your pain? Or perhaps a Light Neutron Blaster II treatment? I hear it's quite effective. Pirate


You can't even scratch the paint on my shuttle, stfu.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Overseer Aliena
Lord of Wars
#85 - 2012-04-23 18:47:45 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
foxnod wrote:
The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.


You are a first class uneducated dumbass.


Ah, the truth. It stings, doesn't it? Would you enjoy a moist calamine towelette to ease your pain? Or perhaps a Light Neutron Blaster II treatment? I hear it's quite effective. Pirate


You can't even scratch the paint on my shuttle, stfu.



Which will be all that you'll have left in 5 days Blink
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#86 - 2012-04-23 21:13:37 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
foxnod wrote:
The fact that carebears have no souls makes it nice. Makes it very easy to sleep at night after tormenting them.


You are a first class uneducated dumbass.


Ah, the truth. It stings, doesn't it? Would you enjoy a moist calamine towelette to ease your pain? Or perhaps a Light Neutron Blaster II treatment? I hear it's quite effective. Pirate


You can't even scratch the paint on my shuttle, stfu.


Oh goody. Another butthurt miner who made it on my "To Kill With Reckless Abandon" list. Be seeing you soon. Might just disco-phoon some of your friends while I'm at it for good measure. Now if I could just find where I put my tear bucket. :looks around:
tessrgoonssheep baaaaaaahhhh
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-04-23 21:43:24 UTC
Immortis Vexx wrote:
Most of the official points have been displayed here but I can think of one more. Hating miners gives people the excuse to kill them. There is a class of PVPr out there that knows that they can't hang with the big boys so they have to pick on the cripples. Thus they rage about how miners are filth and they hate them because of whatever reason their cracked brain can come up with. It is all nonsense though and they pick on miners simply because miners can't fight back. I've also seen the claim made that they are simply culling bots (Which is also untrue). Miners are easy prey, its just a part of life. As long as we have easy prey we will have those that kill them.

Note: I am *NOT* saying that mining ships should be massive tankers. A mining boat is built for one purpose. Mining. The day I see a hulk out on a battlefield somewhere is the day I throw up all over my keyboard. Hulks do NOT need tank buffs.

Vexx



come on out to Venal Vexx.
as soon as we burn Jita's sexy tush to the ground tomorrow, to make fun of NCDOT and Raiden and their co-horts, I''m going to bring my battle hulk out to play in that last sytem they so epically died in, hint: ahem and take on their pathetic sub-cap fleet on myself. Lol

money talks and bs flies!!!!!!

TEST ALLIANCE IS THE BEST ALLIANCE!!! I love the CFC <3
see you all in Venal.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#88 - 2012-04-24 17:24:37 UTC
MIkhail Illiad wrote:
OK I'm confused, I don't mine myself but reading through the forums there seems to be a hell of a lot of unwarranted hatred towards miners and industrialists. (Note: this is not an anti-Hulkageddon thread, I think Hulkageddon is hilarious as I just stand on the sidelines and watch with popcorn at the readyLol)
I can understand the hate for botters and I applaud any and all attempts to rid them from New Eden. And I can also understand why people don't like the guys who have a bazillion mining alts, but the hate for the average guy in his Hulk who just mines his minerals while chatting to his corp mates so he can build a ship or two seems totally unreasonable to me.

Now as I said I don't mine myself so this is not tears or whining, I am just puzzled as to why people seem to loathe miners so much as to want to drive them from the game. Miners are a key part of the EvE economy (like it or not) without them bearing away there wouldn't be as many ships /modules/ammo etc on the market for us to blow each other up in.

I or one can't be bothered mining the minerals to build even a frigate let alone a battleship so I say fair play to those who can and aren't using macros and bots to do it.

So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?



Mining pays a lot worse for work per hour spent than any other isk making activity.
Anyone dumb enough to NOT min/max his profits from time spent, need to be learned about Darwin.

Also, the miners complete and utter failure at banding together to form any kind of useful alliance is mind numbing. With this patch, it will be somewhat possible for the miners to start making some actual ISK, maybe even enough to have isk to spend on Mercs to GUARD and protect their mining operations.

Once Trit hits 10 isk, Pyer 15, mex 75, Iso 250, Nocx 1500, zyd 3000 and mega 6000, and equilibrium will fall into place as T2 cruisers will be cheaper than T1 BS. Even T3 cruisers might end up cheaper than a maelstrom, and finally, carriers and dreads will once again be a hard investment, and jump freighters will be 'almost' of strategic value to an alliance.

As it is now, even with the moderate prices of minerals, the larger groups are stepping away from battleships, moving towards Battle Cruisers.


The critical part in this however, is to make SURE the bots stay OUT of the game.

This inflation will also eat up quite a lot of the advantage the veteran players have in this game. Their fat wallets will hurt them as they have to hand more of their ISK over to new players that actually DO mine for minerals to build their space empires.
kiki mo
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
#89 - 2012-04-24 18:59:47 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
I don't hate miners as a class of player at all. They mine the minerals that make my Hurricanes which allow me to rain death and destruction upon the good and righteous inhabitants of Eve.

What I do hate is the miners that CRY CRY CRY to CPP for immunity from any sort of unconsensual pvp and believe they are entitled to do their thing in complete peace in highsec. I don't care when they pour their tears out on me, mostly because the salty flavor and texture is pleasing to my palette. But when they go to the game developers and ask, nay, demand that they be able to be 100% safe at all times in highsec...that's where I draw my line. I think that is where most people draw their line too.

The unrelenting ganking and griefing is due to miners flapping their lips and acting like babies about nearly everything. EVE is game of risk, and if you can't live with it, there is the airlock. Feel free to jettison your flotsam out of it. Now if they mine, get ganked, and then say to themselves, "Oh well. This happens, and that's the risk I take when going out to mine in a ship with a paper thin tank," there'd be very little hate at all.

What those miners out there are experiencing is what we referred to as 'group punishment' in the military. You're paying the price for someone else who can't stop flapping their lips to the big bosses instead of taking there loss as a learning experience. You're paying because there are crybabies out there who want to transform this game into something it's antithetically against; riskless gaming. Eve does not suffer the weak or stupid. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

I hate to go on a diatribe about this, but those miners and anyone else that dies out there benefits the living. It drives the economy. Those are the people who build Hulks/Macks to replace those you lost, those who slurp up moon-goo in nullsec, and the other miners that where lucky enough to live that day. It drives up mineral prices enough because there is a lesser supply of them due to your death on the market. Supply and demand is the name of the game. EVE is a capitalistic venture, and should always be. It's the thirst for power, money, and the wailing of your enemies.

/soapbox


I read through all of the pseudo-intellectual 'Dr. Phil' psychobabble hypotheses in most of the thread...and was getting some good laughs, and then I saw this response. It's probably the most accurate, although there are a few gems scattered throughout. Well done Daemon Ceed....even though I'm not a ganker, I agree completely with your post.
Amiar
The Fiction Factory
#90 - 2012-04-24 19:31:29 UTC
So much hate in this thread. See'ing the oppinion of both nerd jerks and carebears it seems like in some why all you end up whining about is CCP's changes to game mechanics. It seems like the highsec nerd jerks are in need for highsec to become lowsec. Thus is my question? Why spend your so preciusered hours in a over populated highsec when there's a not so full lowsec for you?
That aint good enough though. Because if you go lowsec you end up getting shot yourself thus it spoils your gameplay. So you choose to stay in highsec, wardec'ing indy corps who supply ships for pvp'ers, suicide gank hulks because you cant shoot anything else or just scam because you see other do it and choose to be just as lazy.

The bottum line is: Want ganks, go lowsec and take upon the games pvp you claim this game to be only. Care about your sec status? Well then theres nullsec.
Highsec are safe heaven and yes you can make isk there, but as much as in low or null? I doubt it. With risk comes isk.

So stop the bullshit about market control or whatever, because if you claim that, you'll look like one of the types mentioned above.

So which one are you? A pvp'er or a carebear. Highsec = carebear. Lowsec/null = PvP'er.
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-04-24 19:45:21 UTC
Hate for miners is justified simply on the premise that every one is entitled to there opinion. Just as miners are entitled to believe there should be no un consensual pvp in high sec, because that day will never come.

You can hate on miners all you want. Just dont make the statement: Mining shouldn't exist as a profession in this game. Just like no un consensual pvp in empire will never be a realty, neither can be the complete abandonment of one profession in game.

Why the hate on miners?
Doesn't matter. As long as it doesn't result in the complete removal of mining as a profession, it wont radically alter this game.
Just is.

Hater's gonna hate.
Minner gonna mine.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2012-04-24 23:02:42 UTC  |  Edited by: David Cedarbridge
Amiar wrote:
So much hate in this thread. See'ing the oppinion of both nerd jerks and carebears it seems like in some why all you end up whining about is CCP's changes to game mechanics. It seems like the highsec nerd jerks are in need for highsec to become lowsec. Thus is my question? Why spend your so preciusered hours in a over populated highsec when there's a not so full lowsec for you?
That aint good enough though. Because if you go lowsec you end up getting shot yourself thus it spoils your gameplay. So you choose to stay in highsec, wardec'ing indy corps who supply ships for pvp'ers, suicide gank hulks because you cant shoot anything else or just scam because you see other do it and choose to be just as lazy.

The bottum line is: Want ganks, go lowsec and take upon the games pvp you claim this game to be only. Care about your sec status? Well then theres nullsec.
Highsec are safe heaven and yes you can make isk there, but as much as in low or null? I doubt it. With risk comes isk.

So stop the bullshit about market control or whatever, because if you claim that, you'll look like one of the types mentioned above.

So which one are you? A pvp'er or a carebear. Highsec = carebear. Lowsec/null = PvP'er.

See its posts like this that just give people that already enjoy ganking you more ammo to do so. You're so fundamentally out of touch with the way that EVE works. High sec never has been and never should become a PVP-free zone. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you will understand what EVE is about. EVE is not a theme park. EVE is not a guided tour. EVE is a sandbox and every choice has a series of possible outcomes. Miners gather materials and put them on the market. When prices compete on the market, PVP happens. Gankers shoot miners, PVP happens. Low and Null ships shoot each other for whatever reason, PVP happens. One fleet loads up local with all manner of the finest spam so that the other side doesn't have the chance to taunt or jeer back, PVP happens.

I've mined in null sec. I get only slightly more benefit out of putting my ship in full danger of just about anything jumping into local and murdering my ship than you do with CONCORD holding your hand and escorting you to the belts. So yes. As a miner, I hate you as a miner. Deal with it.

One of these days you'll either face the fact that you are playing a PVP game or keep operating in ignorance wondering why people don't play the game you think you're playing how you think it is meant to be played.

Also, this might blow your mind. I do industry and I shoot ships. I do industry and I gank miners. There's so much diversity in EVE, your post seems to give off the impression that you can only see the game in one dimension. Why on Terra would anyone ever limit their options to JUST mining or JUST shooting ships?
Lollipops and Sunshine
Doomheim
#93 - 2012-04-26 17:11:12 UTC
MIkhail Illiad wrote:
So I ask you the denizens of C&P, why all the hate yo?


because one group of nerds in a computer game doesn't like that another group of nerds in the game are playing it differently.
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#94 - 2012-04-26 17:35:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Immortis Vexx
tessrgoonssheep baaaaaaahhhh wrote:
Immortis Vexx wrote:
Stuff i wrote.. Shortened because it was a wall of text
Vexx



come on out to Venal Vexx.
as soon as we burn Jita's sexy tush to the ground tomorrow, to make fun of NCDOT and Raiden and their co-horts, I''m going to bring my battle hulk out to play in that last sytem they so epically died in, hint: ahem and take on their pathetic sub-cap fleet on myself. Lol

money talks and bs flies!!!!!!

TEST ALLIANCE IS THE BEST ALLIANCE!!! I love the CFC <3
see you all in Venal.



I have a lolfit orca that i keep on hand for just such occasions. I'd undock @ Jita 4-4 and let wave after wave of idiots throw themselves at my ~300kEHP orca just for the LOLz (usually done with a PLEX in the cargo for extra incentive). Alas, I will be out of town in the advent of the "Burn Jita" initiative. I wish you the best in your attempted conflagration of our capital system.

Vexx

EDIT: Plus orcas and plexes are just too damn expensive these days for that kind of LOL
colonel kurz
Doomheim
#95 - 2012-04-27 15:56:26 UTC  |  Edited by: colonel kurz
Less ore mined = less materials refined = less ships and fittings produced = more costs for replace and fitting lost ships = less PVP

So - in my opinion - PVPers hating miners are basically like men thinking that cutting away their own **** would be a nice way to displease women.

And that's even the reason why CCP listens to miners whinings more than to "burnitall" minded pvp ragers: because more mining, after all, is in the interest of both miners AND pvpers.
colonel kurz
Doomheim
#96 - 2012-04-27 15:59:20 UTC
double post, sry
colonel kurz
Doomheim
#97 - 2012-04-27 16:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: colonel kurz
triple post, sry (confused twice edit with quote)
Velicitia
XS Tech
#98 - 2012-04-27 16:46:40 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Now if I could just find where I put my tear bucket. :looks around:


You left it with that guy over there to make it T2, remember? Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Amber Solaire
COMA Holdings
Cosmic Maniacs
#99 - 2012-04-27 21:46:43 UTC
colonel kurz wrote:
Less ore mined = less materials refined = less ships and fittings produced = more costs for replace and fitting lost ships = less PVP



You make a good point there; having a Hulkageddon now, just after the drone/meta0 loot nerf is extraordinary bad timing

It will hurt the missioners more than the miners...... Roll
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#100 - 2012-04-27 21:49:23 UTC
http://hulkageddon5.machine9.net/

ladies and gentlethings,

The Hulkageddon V website is now operational, all the details about your favorite event are inside!

KILL SHIPS! MAKE MONEY! WIN PRIZES!

BURN EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!