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How highsec miners threaten EVE, and how we can stop them. Manifesto II.

First post
Author
Viscount Hood
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#301 - 2012-04-27 15:46:08 UTC
OP has too much time on his hands..

Too long.. Post is not worth reading.
J Kunjeh
#302 - 2012-04-27 15:47:00 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
Get a life, eve is a hobby FFS!


Your sentence, it contradicts itself.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Velicitia
XS Tech
#303 - 2012-04-27 15:49:07 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

I wouldn't worry about that too much. Perhaps we should suggest to CCP even bigger and more expensive mining ships with mre yield. Sure, their real income might not rise much, but you see where we're going with this, since ships have a fixed mineral cost.

P.S. Ship construction wasn't the point so much as destruction. Heh.


No. We (yeah, I mine, get over itBear) don't need anything "new" in that regard. Fully decked out (T2 fit hulk, Michi's implant, Highwall implant, T2-fit rorq with max-skilled booster), you're looking at a SINGLE hulk dragging in 3000~3500 m3 of ore per minute.

Using these numbers, and buying the mega (since I don't know how "easy" it is to find in lowsec grav sites), it will take just about 7.5 man-hours to mine for an Abaddon* (hull only, no fittings), assuming you're in 0.2 or 0.1 space (if you're in 0.3 or 0.4, the mineral distribution changes, and you'd be SOL in Minnie space since you only get Kernite).

Now, we're in lowsec, with a Rorqual (hopefully in a POS), and probably have a few scouts a few jumps out watching gates, with a token defence fleet in the mining system ... so it's reasonable to assume that there are at least enough people in the belts to warrant these resources being brought to bear, and that you're going to have the materials for an Abaddon every 60-90 minutes or so.

*Using Abaddon because the mineral requirements are pretty much the highest of all the subcaps.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#304 - 2012-04-27 15:49:33 UTC
You're... you're not very good at eve, are you?

Dodixie > Hek

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#305 - 2012-04-27 15:52:45 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

You can reduce their spawn rate, reduce the yield in high sec or you could... You know... Design a war system that isn't laughably easy to bypass. Hell, you could even buff suicide ganking.


So, you want to reduce the minerals produced and greatly increase supply shortage as a cure to miners earning too much?

I think you got economy right the opposite way it works.

Not to miners, to high sec miners.

Although personally I think the better approach would be to nerf their ability to evade war decs, and possibly turn back some of the ganking nerfs.


Hi sec miners are the main low ends providers. Whatever you do to them, ANY kind of reduction of their yield, will reflect in double digits % prices increase.
The less of them / the less efficient of them you get, the higher you pay them.

Unless they become less efficient relative to another area of space. Say, null sec and low sec.

Then you pay them marginally less, and miners outside of high sec slightly more.

Is there something complicated about this concept?

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#306 - 2012-04-27 15:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmy Zeta
3807 views already.
Assuming that the average reader needed 20 minutes to read that manifesto, that would be a total of 1269 hours that people spent reading this.
Assuming all of them have jobs and earn an average of 12 $ per hour, that would be 15228 $ of RL currency destroyed by OP.
You are taking that economical warfare thing to whole new level, James.
Congratulations on a job well done.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Chrisfaren
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2012-04-27 16:07:31 UTC
must be the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. U my friend have some issues.

Because Unicorn!

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#308 - 2012-04-27 16:13:17 UTC
Cristl wrote:
Heh. What's up with you Jimbo, cat got your tongue?

After dusting it off, crashing Bob's party disco style.

AHAHA! Thanks for posting that!

James 315, you are epic.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Drago Palermus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2012-04-27 16:15:40 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
How is this obvious rant not locked yet are the mods on vacation?

Obviously everything that deviates from Carebear Consciousness is Thoughtcrime which must be instantly punished, right?


I read this entire manifesto and it is fantastic, if slightly rambling.
Orlacc
#310 - 2012-04-27 16:17:38 UTC
Other than the "heroic goons" parts some good stuff.

I love tweakers.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#311 - 2012-04-27 16:20:42 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
3807 views already.
Assuming that the average reader needed 20 minutes to read that manifesto, that would be a total of 1269 hours that people spent reading this.
Assuming all of them have jobs and earn an average of 12 $ per hour, that would be 15228 $ of RL currency destroyed by OP.
You are taking that economical warfare thing to whole new level, James.
Congratulations on a job well done.


Way above top secret you are.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Grim Savage
suspended animations DOT
#312 - 2012-04-27 16:25:45 UTC
would read again.

Grim Savage.
Drago Palermus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2012-04-27 16:30:59 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Then you clearly do not know what a "sandbox" is. A sandbox has walls. It is a box. Within the box there is sand of which you may do whatever you want. In other words you have rules to follow but within those rules you can do whatever you want. That is a sandbox. EVE is a sandbox game. Yes...the rules change but that does not change the fact that it is still a sandbox. There is nothing that has changed that doesn't make sense. You are just butthurt that you can't be a pirate as easily anymore. You were making ISK at no risk beyond what you already planned for at the expense of other players that are defenseless. Now that the rules are tweaked to make things harder for you, you want to complain. It is that simple.

The carebears aren't ruining anything. They are playing the game how they want in the relative "safety" of High Sec. They happen to make the wheels of EVE turn. Without them you would be paying a lot more for your throwaway ships that you gank them with. Then your piracy would be nowhere near as profitable and you would lose out. Those miners do more for this game than you do killing ships.

Congrats, I think you "don't get it" more than any other commentator in this thread (though I admit to skipping a few pages).

You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules.

To take the sandbox mechanic to its fullest extent then there would be NO CONCORD and the only way that you could live out your rocks-in-space fantasy would be to actually learn how to defend yourself. True anarcho-capitalism. The exact opposite of what you think "sandbox mechanics" means.

(In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.)
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#314 - 2012-04-27 16:31:44 UTC
You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread.
Win Sui
State War Academy
Caldari State
#315 - 2012-04-27 16:33:22 UTC
Yuki 0nna wrote:
Insane and ugly from start to finish. How can people work themselves up to speak this way about other human beings, fellow players?

You all do know what it sounds way, way too much like, don't you? What it reeks of? Surprising the last section wasn't entitled "A Final Solution."


Misquoted - attributed to doubleplesungood unperson. Ministry of Truth to rectify quote. Ministry of Love to rectify unperson.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#316 - 2012-04-27 16:34:52 UTC
TL; DR. But I agree with your sentimonies. Death to hisec miners and so forth.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#317 - 2012-04-27 16:36:42 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You can tell the miners from the posts they make in this thread.


So what would you classify me as, hmmm?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2012-04-27 16:45:41 UTC
Drago Palermus wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Then you clearly do not know what a "sandbox" is. A sandbox has walls. It is a box. Within the box there is sand of which you may do whatever you want. In other words you have rules to follow but within those rules you can do whatever you want. That is a sandbox. EVE is a sandbox game. Yes...the rules change but that does not change the fact that it is still a sandbox. There is nothing that has changed that doesn't make sense. You are just butthurt that you can't be a pirate as easily anymore. You were making ISK at no risk beyond what you already planned for at the expense of other players that are defenseless. Now that the rules are tweaked to make things harder for you, you want to complain. It is that simple.

The carebears aren't ruining anything. They are playing the game how they want in the relative "safety" of High Sec. They happen to make the wheels of EVE turn. Without them you would be paying a lot more for your throwaway ships that you gank them with. Then your piracy would be nowhere near as profitable and you would lose out. Those miners do more for this game than you do killing ships.

Congrats, I think you "don't get it" more than any other commentator in this thread (though I admit to skipping a few pages).

You're not "playing in the sandbox" if everyone else has to abide by your rules.

To take the sandbox mechanic to its fullest extent then there would be NO CONCORD and the only way that you could live out your rocks-in-space fantasy would be to actually learn how to defend yourself. True anarcho-capitalism. The exact opposite of what you think "sandbox mechanics" means.

(In a perfect world, CONCORD would only come to the rescue of low-SP players, or only in 1.0 space, so that those newest to the game could learn how to play without extreme grief. Otherwise, you'd be on your own.)

What you don't get is that every sandbox has rules. Without rules this game wouldn't be a game at all and nobody would play it. EVE is still a sandbox game no matter how misguided your views might be on the matter. Without rules every ship would do infinite damage with infinite guns and have infinite armor flying at infinite speed with an infinite color spectrum for trails. Even then the fact that everything is infinite suggests that there are still rules. What you want is impossible. In short. You are wrong.

I am also NOT a miner.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#319 - 2012-04-27 16:52:35 UTC
Invitus wrote:
Congrats sir,

You have caused 14 pages of pubbie tears about how wrong you are. My favourite is the one that complains about how a one man corp can wardec and ruin a mining corp:

Takseen wrote:
:words:

Then there's the fact that its a totally assymetric war. How would the miners strike back against a one man corp, when your combat pilot only joined right before striking? The whole thing is a bad joke, and I hope the next expansion improves things.


He clearly didn't read the bit about defending your miners. Some skillpoints in PvP would really help him out.

However, a request for next time, please don't sign your post.


Yeah cheers for snipping all the relevant bits.
Let's review what OP did.
Took a seemingly harmless one man corp, and wardecced a bunch of industrial corps. Risk to the OP, zero, because his main char isn't even in the corp. Risk to the industrial corps, seemingly minimum.
Then, at a moment of his choosing, he plops his Ishtar pilot into the wardeccing corp right before striking. If that particular mining op is sufficiently guarded that an Ishtar couldn't do any damage, all he needs do is pick another target.

The end result. One pilot can cause a lot of disruption with very little personal risk. If the Ishtar pilot had to make more of a commitment, and was able to be attacked back in return, I'd be able to take him more seriously.

Combat in Eve, especially when mining ships are involved, just favours the attacker too heavily for defense of mining ops to be very worthwhile. They're literally better off taking the same approach most shops and homes in real life do, hoping no one tries to rob them, and having insurance if they do.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#320 - 2012-04-27 16:53:19 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I am also NOT a miner.

But you ARE a terrible poster.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.