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Using damage specific type drones worthwhile?

Author
Chris Stokes
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2012-04-27 09:51:12 UTC
Hi all,

Is it actually worth while using the specific damage type drones in L4 missions (and all missions generally)?

(e.g using thermal drones on thermal weak ships etc)

I have been reading a lot of information floating around, debating this question but no definite answer.

Thanks in advance.
Iteken Hotori
The Flowing Penguins
#2 - 2012-04-27 10:07:47 UTC
Nah
use Hobgoblin II's, Hammerhead II's or Ogre II's.
Chris Stokes
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2012-04-27 10:18:36 UTC
Thanks for the answer,

I would like some more details as to why. (from anyone who wishes to divulge)

Regards
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#4 - 2012-04-27 10:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomcio FromFarAway
Because of resistance profile. Different ships have different resistances so hitting for their lowest resist will result in dealing higher damage.
For instance Serpentis rats have low kinetic/thermal resists so using this damage type is more effective than using em/exp.
Generally speaking - thermal drones ( Hobgoblins/Hammerheads/Ogres/Gardes ) are more universal because most rats have thermal as their second tank hole and those drones are stronger than other drones ( higher damage modifier ). Of course using other types might be better idea in some scenarios - like using Minmatar drones against Angels because those drones deal ideal damage and are faster.

Here you have some info about damage/resistance profiles of different factions : DmgResProfile
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#5 - 2012-04-27 10:56:15 UTC
Fighting the Sansha in Missions pretty much requires Acolytes (EM).

YES, damage types of drones is important.

Anyone saying different is a forum troll.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-27 10:56:22 UTC
Depends on the situation, but I think it ain't worth to train for all Drone types. Just those that are mentioned above. And even then for Drone ships (as Dominix and most Gallente Ships), coz you will need to have a decent Drone bay on ur active ship.
Chris Stokes
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2012-04-27 11:08:27 UTC
I might take a few flavors of drones to my next l4 mission and find out how much time is saved by using the relevant damage type, as there already seems to be conflicting answers...
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2012-04-27 11:34:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Chris Stokes wrote:
I might take a few flavors of drones to my next l4 mission and find out how much time is saved by using the relevant damage type, as there already seems to be conflicting answers...



Sansha are so weak in EM why would one NOT use the EM Drones ?

This thread is phail indeed.

And Level 3 of the specializations is hardly a day of training. Big deal.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Chris Stokes
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2012-04-27 11:42:19 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Chris Stokes wrote:
I might take a few flavors of drones to my next l4 mission and find out how much time is saved by using the relevant damage type, as there already seems to be conflicting answers...



Sansha are so weak in EM why would one NOT use the EM Drones ?

This thread is phail indeed.

And Level 3 of the specializations is hardly a day of training. Big deal.


Yay first asshat of the thread.

I am new and I am asking an honest question....
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2012-04-27 11:48:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Chris Stokes wrote:


Yay first asshat of the thread.

I am new and I am asking an honest question....



I gave you legitimate advice.

YES the proper drones are essential.

The drone specializations are not that annoying to bring to Level 4.

Your deceptive asshat is poster #2 recommending ONLY Thermal Drones. That will not work on Sansha or Angels with any expediency.

The End.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Chris Stokes
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2012-04-27 12:15:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Stokes
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Chris Stokes wrote:


Yay first asshat of the thread.

I am new and I am asking an honest question....



I gave you legitimate advice.

YES the proper drones are essential.

The drone specializations are not that annoying to bring to Level 4.

Your deceptive asshat is poster #2 recommending ONLY Thermal Drones. That will not work on Sansha or Angels with any expediency.

The End.


Well I appreciate the honest advice, I just didn't appreciate the unpleasant comment "This thread is phail indeed."
Iteken Hotori
The Flowing Penguins
#12 - 2012-04-27 12:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Iteken Hotori
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Chris Stokes wrote:
I might take a few flavors of drones to my next l4 mission and find out how much time is saved by using the relevant damage type, as there already seems to be conflicting answers...



Sansha are so weak in EM why would one NOT use the EM Drones ?


Acolyte II damage Modifier: 1.38x
Hobgoblin II damage modifier: 1.92x

You can do the rest of the maths yourself i hope.

(also they have the highest EHP - making it less likely to lose them)

even in PVP, the choices are usually: warriors to kill tackle. hobgoblins to shoot stuff, or Sentry's/Ogre II's just...because.

Quote:
deceptive asshat

now now, no need to be unplesant.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#13 - 2012-04-27 12:33:56 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Chris Stokes wrote:


Yay first asshat of the thread.

I am new and I am asking an honest question....



I gave you legitimate advice.

YES the proper drones are essential.

The drone specializations are not that annoying to bring to Level 4.

Your deceptive asshat is poster #2 recommending ONLY Thermal Drones. That will not work on Sansha or Angels with any expediency.

The End.


Basic mathematics is so hard to grasp as it seems.Roll

ArrowOn most Sansha rats the difference in resistances between em/th is 10% ( that includes cruisers, destroyers, battleships and battle cruisers ). Elite rats have even smaller difference.
Arrow Thermal drones have much higher damage mod than em drones.

Now go and do some math exercises. Blink
If you need help with basic additions and divisions don't be afraid to ask. I will gladly help you with those. Currently helping my little nephew with this stuff and I don't think he will mind some "adult" company.
Chris Stokes
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2012-04-27 12:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Stokes
"On most Sansha rats the difference in resistances between em/th is 10% ( that includes cruisers, destroyers, battleships and battle cruisers ). Elite rats have even smaller difference."

"Acolyte II damage Modifier: 1.38x
Hobgoblin II damage modifier: 1.92x"

Is there anything else that goes into the formula for damage output or is this it? (i.e damage multifplier + damage type/resistance) (excluding skills etc)
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#15 - 2012-04-27 13:15:35 UTC
Chris Stokes wrote:
"On most Sansha rats the difference in resistances between em/th is 10% ( that includes cruisers, destroyers, battleships and battle cruisers ). Elite rats have even smaller difference."

"Acolyte II damage Modifier: 1.38x
Hobgoblin II damage modifier: 1.92x"

Is there anything else that does into the formula for damage output or is this it? (i.e damage multifplier + damage type/resistance) (excluding skills etc)



It's only about damage mod and rat resists.
Drone damage mod is modified by your skills ( CDO, DI, racial spec etc ), ship bonuses and rigs ( for sentry drones ).
Another thing you could take into account is travel time but it makes things unnecessarily overcomplicated so it's generally better to ignore it.

From my own experience :
Thermal drones are usually the best ones. Exp drones ( Minmatar ) seems to be better against Angel Cartel rats.
When using sentries : Gardes/Bouncers for closer - mid ranges. Wardens for long range.

If you want to check specific rat resistances then this is a very good and up to date site : EveRatStats

If you are using drone boat then just load up different drones and see for yourself what type is better for your needs.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#16 - 2012-04-27 13:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
Chris Stokes wrote:
"On most Sansha rats the difference in resistances between em/th is 10% ( that includes cruisers, destroyers, battleships and battle cruisers ). Elite rats have even smaller difference."

"Acolyte II damage Modifier: 1.38x
Hobgoblin II damage modifier: 1.92x"

Is there anything else that goes into the formula for damage output or is this it? (i.e damage multifplier + damage type/resistance) (excluding skills etc)


speed and tracking a bit, but that's it
Chris Stokes
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2012-04-27 13:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Stokes
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
Chris Stokes wrote:
"On most Sansha rats the difference in resistances between em/th is 10% ( that includes cruisers, destroyers, battleships and battle cruisers ). Elite rats have even smaller difference."

"Acolyte II damage Modifier: 1.38x
Hobgoblin II damage modifier: 1.92x"

Is there anything else that does into the formula for damage output or is this it? (i.e damage multifplier + damage type/resistance) (excluding skills etc)



It's only about damage mod and rat resists.
Drone damage mod is modified by your skills ( CDO, DI, racial spec etc ), ship bonuses and rigs ( for sentry drones ).
Another thing you could take into account is travel time but it makes things unnecessarily overcomplicated so it's generally better to ignore it.

From my own experience :
Thermal drones are usually the best ones. Exp drones ( Minmatar ) seems to be better against Angel Cartel rats.
When using sentries : Gardes/Bouncers for closer - mid ranges. Wardens for long range.

If you want to check specific rat resistances then this is a very good and up to date site : EveRatStats

If you are using drone boat then just load up different drones and see for yourself what type is better for your needs.


Cheers - Answers my questions perfectly. Thumbs up!
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#18 - 2012-04-27 14:17:50 UTC
In my experience, all you need are Gal and Min drones. Min for Angels and fast tackle, Gal for everything else. The damage mod on Gal drones makes them outshine Amarr and Cal drones against their respective enemies due to the resist profiles of the rats.

Though I have seen a proposal to make Cal drones identical to Gal ones, except the damage type, and Amarr ones the same as Min, except damage type. That's probably the only way the drones would see more even PvP usage.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#19 - 2012-04-27 14:36:45 UTC
mxzf wrote:
In my experience, all you need are Gal and Min drones. Min for Angels and fast tackle, Gal for everything else. The damage mod on Gal drones makes them outshine Amarr and Cal drones against their respective enemies due to the resist profiles of the rats.

Though I have seen a proposal to make Cal drones identical to Gal ones, except the damage type, and Amarr ones the same as Min, except damage type. That's probably the only way the drones would see more even PvP usage.


Gallante drones seem to show the best DPS numbers and have the right 2ndary damage type for almost all missions but I think Hobgobs are wrong most of the time because when you are shooting an enemy that has bin chosen to shoot with heat damage as a 2ndary damage type, you will infact run into atleast 50% damage resist for heat.

Compared to dealing primary damage, you will run into 0 to 30% resist, so chosing a primary damage type is indeed very important.

as a previous poster said, when you are given a mission and you notice the mission is against Sansha forces, their resistances to EM damage are closer to zero then to 50, hence Amarr drones will greatly increase efficiency.

I mean, its like using Hardeners for specific missions or Certain types of ammo to deal the correct damage, everything adds up and if you do it right you will have far greater DPS then just playing it safe.

I believe the Gallante drones are good for 2 situations
1 being PvE, where you dont know what your doing so you play it safe until you formulate a pattarn and but the specific drones to deal the damage type you need to be dealing.

2.PvP, if you think your enemy frigates will not be shiny speed boats like dramiels and the sort, but like rifters or Punishers, this is where you want the most DPS regardless of drone speed or tracking, otherwise in PvP its usually best to play it safe and use mini drones as they are the fastest with a very acceptable tracking speed against everything except a Dramiel or Daredevil with a pilot fitting high grade Halo set.

Never the less, iv done a little bit of homework and I may not be as good as 90% of the elite mission runners here, but I know for small and large drones, EM and Kinetic damage should always be on your mind when running missions, I can personally speak for Mini space, Kinetic damage is almost always king, 70% of the time and EM damage is demanded about 20% of the time, Explosive damage takes the other 10%.

Medium size drones, I ended up using very rarely and I found using large and small drones to be the most effective for Typhoon and Maelstrom class battleships in Mini space.

The final verdict:
Gallante small drones are rumored to be better against certain elite frigates, but I personally think, shooting the damage type relevant to the mission will do no less then equal DPS and have more DPS against all the other ships, thereforce Gallante drones are best to use when you are playing it safe or when you are entering a predictable PvP fight.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#20 - 2012-04-27 14:44:44 UTC
Chris Stokes wrote:
"On most Sansha rats the difference in resistances between em/th is 10% ( that includes cruisers, destroyers, battleships and battle cruisers ). Elite rats have even smaller difference."

"Acolyte II damage Modifier: 1.38x
Hobgoblin II damage modifier: 1.92x"

Is there anything else that goes into the formula for damage output or is this it? (i.e damage multifplier + damage type/resistance) (excluding skills etc)


Rate of fire, speaking of rate of fire.

here are some useful links for you to use as a guide for dealing damage:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/NPC_Damage_Types
http://www.ogrank.com/content/view/698/59/
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