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PvE: Missions or Incursions?
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Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#1 - 2012-04-27 00:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanza Mechonis
Let's get straight to the point: I'm a hardcore carebear, and almost have my training for a Hulk done (Just in time for Hulkageddon :D), and I'm looking to step back to PvE again soon. I have a harbi sitting in Amarr that can decently do level 2 missions, but my skills don't quite cut level 3's. (Therefore I thought I could be training a lot of skills while mining ^^)
The most obvious choice for a ship would be the Raven of course, and I love caldari ships so I have no reason not to pick it, right? My only problem with them would be the ammo part, as I initially chose Amarr for their practically ammo-less lasers... But considering the money I'll earn, it won't be an issue. (I still take care of every million isk I get, so I don't like ammo that much :D)

The main problem is: Which would be better, missions (level 4's solo), or incursions?
I looked around a bit on youtube and googled a bit with a purring space kitten on my lap, but Ravens or caldari ships in general (aside from logi basilisks) seemed pretty... Absent for it being PvE. I mean, I get how it being Sansha ships means lasers (some video on youtube of a fleet with over half the ships being Nightmares/Machariels anyone?) can do well too, but does it really make that much of a difference?

Which of the two would earn more isk considering the time I spent going from incursion to incursion, the low probability of me getting any loot or salvage in incursions, and even more time wasted looking for a fleet? What general ship/fitting idea would be the best for running incursions? What else does a noob need to know? I feel completely lost trying to find heads or tails on which would be better... :S

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-27 07:28:41 UTC
take a tengu. go do lvl4 until they fixed incursions. More ISK / day there. Seek for spaces that rats need kinetic damage to utilise the tengu at the max performance. Also also salvage those sites you do with an alt salvager. (fast to train , will pay for the plex by himslef)

Ride hard, live with passion 
Arcan Winter
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-04-27 08:04:23 UTC
They have change incursion alot on thw latest post. I think the incursion runners still are learning how to run vangurad and assult sites as good as possible. Hence its hard to judge what isk you can make from incursion right now. But at least for vanguards the isk have droped alot compared to pre-patch. So regarding incursion, give it some time and see whats happen, and if its worth it or not. Im sure you have skills that can be usefull independent of you go incursion or missions.

Regarding missile ships in incursion. they normally have lower dps, even if it might be more consistent. Missile have delayed dameg application, which means lost volleys. When sites are competed this is even worse.
So for incursion

If you are running lvl 2 right now you have a long wa to go for a raven I assume. Getting teh skills to fly a Raven is not hard to get, but you really need to get all or most relevant skills up to lvl 4 before you will see the Raven as usefull. A low skilled Raven pilot will not have an easy time in lvl 4.

When if the skill set is different, its common that ppl get into a drake before they jump into a Raven (partly different skills, BC instead of BS and heavy instead of cruise missiles, not alot of common support skills). Drake is good fro lvl 3, but will be to slow in lvl 4 as its now.

At this time, you should have good heavy missile skills, so why not train into a tengu. The tengu cost more but will be fare better with limited skills.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-27 09:07:08 UTC
Short answer: level 4 missions and incursions do NOT compare.

Incursions are above level 4 missions. This means the ISK you get from them is better (it's a LOT better) but you need a better ship, better skills, and more expensive modules to get accepted into incursion groups. Level 4 missions are less stressful.

I suggest you work on level 4 missions first, and when you think those are too easy, you can think about stepping up to incursions. For incursion practice, try to kill those interceptor rats with your battleship weapons. No drones, just large weapons. And I'm not talking about regular rat frigates, I'm talking about the elite faction rat frigs, like an Arch Gistii Ruffian, or a Centii Loyal Scavenger. If you can pop those things just as quick and easy as a rat destroyer after they have already picked their orbit range on you, then you might be ready for incursions.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#5 - 2012-04-27 09:18:39 UTC
Do you like flying the Harbi?

If you do, consider sticking with the Amarr and missioning in Amarr space. You'll train turret skills, which are more widely useful in the game than missile skills, especially since crosstraining them is a breeze once you have the first race done.

The Harbi is a perfectly fine ship for L3s, and all of the support skills translate well into running an Abaddon, Apoc, or eventually a Nightmare for L4s.

If you're in Amarr space, you'll tend to be shooting Sansha and Blood Raider who both have giant EM/Therm holes, so you'll be just fine with lasers.

As a bonus, Incursions are pretty universally the providence of turret ships, and if you decide to try PvP, turret ships tend to shine brighter than missile ships (missiles pretty much just have the Drake and Tengu, which are both quite good in PvP).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Riven Aleem
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-27 09:34:36 UTC
You will have to a few lvl 3 missions before you gain access to any decent L4 Agents, so sitting mining while you skill up will only get you so far.

I would lean towards doing the missions, as I'm quite casual. I can pick the times I want to play and not have to sit around waiting for anyone else. Sure, when you get into it, incursions give plenty of money, but unless it is all pre-arranged, then you will waste a lot of time waiting about, and if you get targeted by the NPCs and someone is slow on getting your shields/armour back up, you can lose your ship. With missions, doing them solo, you have a whole lot more control over the fight.

As others have said, the requirements for L4s are lower than incursions, so by aiming for L4 you will lose nothing, as by most reckoning, incursions are the next step. The exception to this is obviously being boosted by friends if you are low on SP and modules.

I went from Kestrel (&Crow) > Caracal > Drake > Raven, always missiles and shields as I progressed through the levels. The key thing that not many people tell you is that in order to solo L4 missions in a Raven you need more than just pilot and missile skills, but also weapon upgrades, Energy grid upgrades, energy management, shield compensation shield operation etc. You need 4s in everything to do with you capacitor size and regen, and also the cost to run your booster and the cpu reduction for weapon upgrades, power upgrades and so on, otherwise you won't be able to fit the tech 2 modules or keep your shield booster running long enough.

There are a lot of hidden skills needed, so you would need to talk to someone with experience running an incursion (not me) to know what you realistically need vs what you need for L4s.
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-04-27 09:48:26 UTC
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
Let's get straight to the point: I'm a hardcore carebear, and almost have my training for a Hulk done (Just in time for Hulkageddon :D), and I'm looking to step back to PvE again soon. I have a harbi sitting in Amarr that can decently do level 2 missions, but my skills don't quite cut level 3's. (Therefore I thought I could be training a lot of skills while mining ^^)
The most obvious choice for a ship would be the Raven of course, and I love caldari ships so I have no reason not to pick it, right? My only problem with them would be the ammo part, as I initially chose Amarr for their practically ammo-less lasers... But considering the money I'll earn, it won't be an issue. (I still take care of every million isk I get, so I don't like ammo that much :D)

The main problem is: Which would be better, missions (level 4's solo), or incursions?
I looked around a bit on youtube and googled a bit with a purring space kitten on my lap, but Ravens or caldari ships in general (aside from logi basilisks) seemed pretty... Absent for it being PvE. I mean, I get how it being Sansha ships means lasers (some video on youtube of a fleet with over half the ships being Nightmares/Machariels anyone?) can do well too, but does it really make that much of a difference?

Which of the two would earn more isk considering the time I spent going from incursion to incursion, the low probability of me getting any loot or salvage in incursions, and even more time wasted looking for a fleet? What general ship/fitting idea would be the best for running incursions? What else does a noob need to know? I feel completely lost trying to find heads or tails on which would be better... :S



ravens have **** dps and alot of tank, new players like ravens cause they have **** fits and **** skills and survive but they dont make much money because of the lack of dps

♞
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#8 - 2012-04-27 10:16:45 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Do you like flying the Harbi?

If you do, consider sticking with the Amarr and missioning in Amarr space. You'll train turret skills, which are more widely useful in the game than missile skills, especially since crosstraining them is a breeze once you have the first race done.

The Harbi is a perfectly fine ship for L3s, and all of the support skills translate well into running an Abaddon, Apoc, or eventually a Nightmare for L4s.

If you're in Amarr space, you'll tend to be shooting Sansha and Blood Raider who both have giant EM/Therm holes, so you'll be just fine with lasers.

As a bonus, Incursions are pretty universally the providence of turret ships, and if you decide to try PvP, turret ships tend to shine brighter than missile ships (missiles pretty much just have the Drake and Tengu, which are both quite good in PvP).


The harbi seems... Fine, I've always "dreamed" about an apoc though xD But caldari ships are cool too...

The biggest problem for me was the missions where it's NOT Sansha/Blood Raider missions. For example there was the mission that had you shoot miners and then a gallente fleet showed up, it was level 2, yet I still had to jump out twice with my harbi, and I had trouble shooting them down... That's my main reason to fly another ship, as I don't want to sit with ineffective shots and having to jump out.

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
Iteken Hotori
The Flowing Penguins
#9 - 2012-04-27 10:28:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Iteken Hotori
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
The harbi seems... Fine, I've always "dreamed" about an apoc though xD But caldari ships are cool too...

The biggest problem for me was the missions where it's NOT Sansha/Blood Raider missions. For example there was the mission that had you shoot miners and then a gallente fleet showed up, it was level 2, yet I still had to jump out twice with my harbi, and I had trouble shooting them down... That's my main reason to fly another ship, as I don't want to sit with ineffective shots and having to jump out.


I am a hardcore minmatar terrorist - however you are correct. Amarr ships are Cool.

Your problem in this case was not what you shot, but what was shooting you.
Do a little research on eve-survival.com into missions, damage types etc, and fit your ship accordingly.

Eg. Gallente use rails / blasters which are kinetic/thermal damage. So one each of Kinetic and Thermal active hardeners and go to town.

nb: It's worth training up to use Tech2 hardeners, damage controls and repair's asap - definitely before Tech2 guns.
This fit should breeze through L2/L3 missions:

[Harbinger, L3 Mission Boat (tech1 Only)]

F85 Peripheral Damage System I
Prototype Armor EM Hardener I
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Prototype Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I
Extruded Heat Sink I

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array
Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array

Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M
Focused Modulated Medium Energy Beam I, Multifrequency M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

a very easy, forgiving fit. add drones to taste, and upgrade parts to Tech2 when you can - and you are golden. ahaha!

To talk you through the fit:
low slots: damage control and energized membrane offer omni-resists. the EM./Therm hardeners are mission specific. swap them of kin/therm or whatever for gallente.
The heat sink is pure dps increase. If you find you have more tank than you need, drop some tank mods for another heat sink.
mid slots: Afterburner, because moving fast is cool. Fleeting Propulsion thingy = Web. Stops close by ships so your guns can hit them. Cap rechargers increase amount of time you can run your guns and armor hardener.
high slots: guns. Multifrequency is good stuff. use it.

Drones: Put a load of hobgoblins in, make sure you can deploy 5 at once, use them to munch frigates and focus guns on the cruisers / Bc's.

You are using long range guns, so hitting out to 15km is shouldn't be a problem.
Maybe carry some radio crystals to shoot to long long range.

note this is all "Meta-4" parts. There will be cheaper on the market if this is out of your price range.

Thigns to upgrade to tech2 first:
Cap rechargers
Tank
Damage mods
Drones
finally guns. but really no rush for them.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#10 - 2012-04-27 10:31:18 UTC
Zanza Mechonis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Do you like flying the Harbi?

If you do, consider sticking with the Amarr and missioning in Amarr space. You'll train turret skills, which are more widely useful in the game than missile skills, especially since crosstraining them is a breeze once you have the first race done.

The Harbi is a perfectly fine ship for L3s, and all of the support skills translate well into running an Abaddon, Apoc, or eventually a Nightmare for L4s.

If you're in Amarr space, you'll tend to be shooting Sansha and Blood Raider who both have giant EM/Therm holes, so you'll be just fine with lasers.

As a bonus, Incursions are pretty universally the providence of turret ships, and if you decide to try PvP, turret ships tend to shine brighter than missile ships (missiles pretty much just have the Drake and Tengu, which are both quite good in PvP).


The harbi seems... Fine, I've always "dreamed" about an apoc though xD But caldari ships are cool too...

The biggest problem for me was the missions where it's NOT Sansha/Blood Raider missions. For example there was the mission that had you shoot miners and then a gallente fleet showed up, it was level 2, yet I still had to jump out twice with my harbi, and I had trouble shooting them down... That's my main reason to fly another ship, as I don't want to sit with ineffective shots and having to jump out.


Check out EvE-Survival, and try to avoid (i.e. decline) anti-faction missions and missions that don't cater to your damage type.

Also, make sure you're working for an Amarr agent in Amarr space to minimize those missions.

Finally, work on your shooting and tanking skills, learn the triggers and completion requirements (EvE-Survival again), and recognize that every ship is going to have strengths and weaknesses.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#11 - 2012-04-27 11:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Zanza Mechonis
Iteken Hotori wrote:
-edited out for easier reading-


I was mainly using Damage control II and Adaptive Invulnerability field with a lot of passive tank thrown on it (More HP, but no resist... Probably lower EHP I guess) and a repair module. While it's true that my tank was because of this not up to par at all, I often hate the low damage/big tank idea, as I keep thinking: What if there's something that infi-tanks it? I mean, I don't want a ship that has heavy DPS but no tank, but I don't want to sacrifice a lot of DPS for a massive tank either. (Which is where Caldari ships seem really great, after I read that launchers don't use cap... Was imagining a ship with a huge shield tank, which would directly benefit me while I was still mining too.)

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."