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Hyper Inflation On Battleships ... ?????
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Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-04-10 18:24:56 UTC
velox wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
When I looked yesterday, Maelstroms were selling below mineral cost at under 205m.

I have two Maelstrom BPOs which are completely useless at such low prices.


This happens more times than you would think, in a volatile market people place their sell order and go about their business. Then over the course of last weekend nocx's artificial cap was lifted and mineral prices rose. Now instead of checking their sell prices at the start of the week they just look at who they need to undercut.

I noticed passing through essence that thorax's were selling at about 8.2 mill production cost at the time was 8.4 so I bought them all :) at one point I had 300 of them, I moved them to other regions where they flew out at prices between 9.5 and even some at 11 mill.

For the sellers they may well have recovered their costs having paid for minerals at an earlier rate but technically they boo boo'd

I cant remember the last time my freighter all was this busy. Let the good times roll.

V.


Ah yes, the "artificial cap" of being able to play the game the way you want, that is killing drones for minerals. People should be FORCED to boringly mine. FORCED TO.

We now have Dev God granting completely "natural" bennies to the 0.0 mega-corps. Cause nothing is more natural than being talked into doing something stupid by those with a vested interest in you doing that stupid thing.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-04-10 18:27:40 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
Riley Moore wrote:
It's simple:

People gank our freighters. We use our isk to jack up mineral prices through rumours, speculative reasoning and just plain manipulation. Your ships now become twice as expensive.

Don't come crying you lost at pvp.



Don't be a troll and think you or any traders have caused this. The prices have increased due to CCP's action and they have failed to place any sort of artificial safety net after their mass banning of bots, announcement of nefing drone minerals as well as the pax thing.

CCP is screwing with too many things at once, with the mineral markets and that has caused the speculation and rising prices. Market guys didn't cause this they just reacted to it.

I do know that BC at 50 mil ISK is bad for PVP and makes it tough for newer corps such as my own that recruit a lot of new players. I can afford to lose a 50 or 100 million ISK hull but it's much harder for our new players. This is a problem and CCP needs to address it as raising the bar on noobs will only harm the game.

Flying smaller is really not a option in most cases.


But does it benefit Null Sec? If it does, well, they are over 10% of the player population. Or under 10%. Who cares. The point is, CCP programmers got drunk with the CSM and then acted like one would expect nerdes with no social skills to act.

Congratulations.
Adunh Slavy
#23 - 2012-04-10 18:34:08 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:

Ah yes, the "artificial cap" of being able to play the game the way you want, that is killing drones for minerals. People should be FORCED to boringly mine. FORCED TO.



You are not forced to mine, or go to null sec. Many are making a lot of ISK on these changes and hardly ever undock. By brining mining and industry to parity with shooting rats, players are being given more options, not less.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-04-10 20:10:57 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:

Ah yes, the "artificial cap" of being able to play the game the way you want, that is killing drones for minerals. People should be FORCED to boringly mine. FORCED TO.



You are not forced to mine, or go to null sec. Many are making a lot of ISK on these changes and hardly ever undock. By brining mining and industry to parity with shooting rats, players are being given more options, not less.


You are forced to do nothing. You never have to set foot in null...and you never have to mind. Ever. If you think those are the only options...you are wrong.
clixor
Celluloid Gurus
#25 - 2012-04-12 11:12:35 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
[quote=Riley Moore]It's simple:

The prices have increased due to CCP's action and they have failed to place any sort of artificial safety net after their mass banning of bots, announcement of nefing drone minerals as well as the pax thing.

CCP is screwing with too many things at once, with the mineral markets and that has caused the speculation and rising prices. Market guys didn't cause this they just reacted to it.
.


I find it ironic that the general consensus has always been that CCP should never interfere with the markets, but now they FINALLY are effective against bots they should've thought of a safety net??

And anyway, flying a BS was never intended for people who just trained BS1 . I think it adds something to game experience to make flying a first BS for a new player a more rewarding experience.

As the market is universal the consequences are for everybody. So smallish gangs all have to downgrade, or spend more time mining / whatever if they don't want to do that.

In the end CCP WILL evaluate the situation though. If they come to the conclusion that (making this up) 90% of mins were botted, then there is something wrong with game mechanics and they will have to adjust to make more (real players) mine.
silent Serena
Khanid Mineral Reserves
#26 - 2012-04-12 11:33:05 UTC
clixor wrote:
Mutnin wrote:
[quote=Riley Moore]It's simple:

The prices have increased due to CCP's action and they have failed to place any sort of artificial safety net after their mass banning of bots, announcement of nefing drone minerals as well as the pax thing.

CCP is screwing with too many things at once, with the mineral markets and that has caused the speculation and rising prices. Market guys didn't cause this they just reacted to it.
.


I find it ironic that the general consensus has always been that CCP should never interfere with the markets, but now they FINALLY are effective against bots they should've thought of a safety net??

And anyway, flying a BS was never intended for people who just trained BS1 . I think it adds something to game experience to make flying a first BS for a new player a more rewarding experience.

As the market is universal the consequences are for everybody. So smallish gangs all have to downgrade, or spend more time mining / whatever if they don't want to do that.

In the end CCP WILL evaluate the situation though. If they come to the conclusion that (making this up) 90% of mins were botted, then there is something wrong with game mechanics and they will have to adjust to make more (real players) mine.



Actually, the minerals might have been aquired by bots. Looking at plush/trit and zyd traded in jita you can assume that currently a large part of trit is probably from droneregions. However its hard to tell without knowing how large quantities that are used by the alliances that are holding drone regions as self supply.
Either way, I think trit will spike but is this really a bad thing? It will encourage players to start mining trit again. Theres tonns of systems in highsec that isnt beeing mined properly. This will likely drive the price down to some new equalibrium, but for mining to happend it has to be compedetive with other sources of low risk incomes in highsec.

Sorry for bad english
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-04-12 11:57:55 UTC
shar'ra matcevsovski wrote:
considering that CCP hasnt CHANGED ANYTHING about mineral resources just yet (except pax amarrian book) it's all about stockpilling and market manipulation atm.



Your point is not really right. The tradingplaces are taking future price levels in account. Everyone knows that a higher price can't be avoided. There is just one question left: At wich level the markets will be stable.

@CCP: It's really sad, that we haven't the opportunity of making futures contracts.
papamike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-04-12 12:02:39 UTC
silent Serena wrote:


Actually, the minerals might have been aquired by bots. Looking at plush/trit and zyd traded in jita you can assume that currently a large part of trit is probably from droneregions. However its hard to tell without knowing how large quantities that are used by the alliances that are holding drone regions as self supply.
Either way, I think trit will spike but is this really a bad thing? It will encourage players to start mining trit again. Theres tonns of systems in highsec that isnt beeing mined properly. This will likely drive the price down to some new equalibrium, but for mining to happend it has to be compedetive with other sources of low risk incomes in highsec.

Sorry for bad english


Don't apologize. Your 'bad english' actually holds more value than the majority of the whine posts in this thread.
As someone said above, owning a BS wasnt meant to be this easy. I remember my first Megathron. Was so pimp with its meta 3 fittings back in 2006.

Ive long hoped for a change that could make tech 1 ships viable and commonplace again. Id say ask some of the older pvp players from the RMR era how cool pvp was back then when t1 cruiser combat was the norm, and battleship fleet engagements of 100 or so chars was an amazing occurrence, but quite frankly i doubt you would listen and secondly, most of the older players left when the game got boring and non-consequential.

This mineral pricing is a 'Great Rebalancing'. Im really hoping it brings back consequence to alot of players. You will hate it when you loose something, but the satisfaction of achieving is that much greater.
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-04-12 12:20:51 UTC
papamike wrote:
[quote=silent Serena]

Ive long hoped for a change that could make tech 1 ships viable and commonplace again. Id say ask some of the older pvp players from the RMR era how cool pvp was back then when t1 cruiser combat was the norm, and battleship fleet engagements of 100 or so chars was an amazing occurrence, but quite frankly i doubt you would listen and secondly, most of the older players left when the game got boring and non-consequential.



1) You wish is wrong. PVP in 0.0 is about ISK. You have to field the best adapted ships, like the drake, mael or abaddon. The alternative is loss of sov. Even in Low older player are flying faction ships because they are better adapted to the mechanics.

2) 0.0 player will paying for their specific ship types and won't change to cruiser. Many of them getting already ISK by plexes. The others will rat more.

3) Higher prices garantees less botting for the the amount of ISK. Botting is getting more intelligent, instead of 24/7 generating ISK.

There is no alternative to BS and BC. When a coalition getting Tech goo, the new economical power directly translates into military power. Mining costs more work time than looting and this means, all of us have to rat or mine more. This will be known as an inflation.

Summary:
A huge inflation will make most players poorer. They have to mine or rat more to finance PVP, caused by less minerals from RMT, drones and loot.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-04-12 13:23:17 UTC
Mega used to me 17 000 isk pu back in the days.

A maelstrom, with T1 rigs, T2 fittings should be about 1 PLEX.
Enkryption
Intergalactic Pool Boys
#31 - 2012-04-12 13:40:14 UTC
Voidfinger wrote:
personally I would like to see BS and larger ships get ridiculous so that smaller ship battles would take place instead of seeing 50+ supers and 200+ BS fighting it out. Lets see 400+ frigates and cruisers going at it!



TEST fields battleships?

I thought tier 3 BC were pretty much all the rage these days.
Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-04-12 21:14:10 UTC
Enkryption wrote:
Voidfinger wrote:
personally I would like to see BS and larger ships get ridiculous so that smaller ship battles would take place instead of seeing 50+ supers and 200+ BS fighting it out. Lets see 400+ frigates and cruisers going at it!



TEST fields battleships?

I thought tier 3 BC were pretty much all the rage these days.



Yes Maels like the hole clusterfuck
Voidfinger
Malevelon Haven
#33 - 2012-04-26 20:52:59 UTC
oh the sadness, purchased a raven yesterday and about cried. I retract my former statement, I want my 60m isk ravens and 40m isk domi's back! seriously 500+ million for an abbadon??? really.
Tamarana
C.L.A.W.
#34 - 2012-04-26 21:23:14 UTC
The analysis about the reason of the spike in prices are mainly wrong. The main reason is Incursions Farming.
The ISKs from Incursions drip in the general EVE economy and force all prices up.
There is no real reduction of mineral production (just look at the chart of Jita).
If the reason would be less minerals, the prices of minerals would spike but the prices of other stuff, like pos modules, fuel, T2 and T3 ships, would stay still or fall. More ISK would go to buy minerals and less would go in buying moon materials, Sleeper stuff, fuel for POS, Planetari Industrial products.

They all are growing in the same similar way, so the reason could only be ingection of liquidity in the market.

Ben Bernanke is now controlling the EVE ISK faucets and is printing, printing.
Debiru
Universal Fleet Operations
#35 - 2012-04-26 21:32:25 UTC
With taxes (very very low taxes) included, the price of battleships is less than the price of the minerals to build them in the case of Megathrons and Ravens (not sure of the others). Thus, I would not say battleship prices have inflated. In fact, most prices of anything have not inflated. Inflated prices means they are far more expensive than they should be. And should be, in the case of ships, means the price of the minerals plus a small profit margin. Right now, the price of those minerals is greater than that of battleships. So hold onto your seat belt, if minerals don't go down soon, battleships will bump up another couple million.
Voidfinger
Malevelon Haven
#36 - 2012-04-26 21:34:26 UTC
it just flips me out that a faction battle ship is close to 1 billion out where I'm at now, the Mach is 1.6 billion!!! wtf!!!!!
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-04-26 22:45:43 UTC
Tamarana wrote:

They all are growing in the same similar way,.


No, they aren't. It's pretty much just minerals and T1 gear.
Kazu'ul
OMG PWNAGE
#38 - 2012-04-27 01:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Kazu'ul
Um, yeah. Let me break it down for you.

CCP announces drone region nerf and simultaneously cracks down on 'botting (whether this be mining bots that repeatedly mine hisec belts with immunity or or pvp bots that bring in loot/drone mins all the time - it will cause a bump in the market)

The following month, people panic, and buy up all excess minerals 'while they are still low'
Shortly after this, mineral prices rise as supply and demand takes its natural course
(During this phase I liquidated all my nocx, as I did when mex spiked due to tier 3 BC demand - also sold off a few hundred mil isk of other mins that have spiked, although i am holding my 200k zydrine for the upcoming inflation of hi end minerals)
Shortly after the patch, I see a lot of mineral prices falling as more turn to mining and decrease demand by increasing supply -
However, some still have vast stockpiles of minerals and are reluctant to sell - if the trend continues to lower mineral prices here shortly, those people will flood the market, making a new artificial low.

Not immediately relevant, but circa 2005 mineral prices from memory were about this
Tritanium 1.2 (consequent years of hisec ore botting made this less available, increasing demand which to this day has continued... I mean seriously, you used to scan good roids and stop your laser a cycle before they would pop so that others can mine .6 omber and stuff as well, as the belts regenerated during downtime but if you pop a roid it will randomly respawn and have a higher % chance of becoming a new veld rock as opposed to a 'better' one)
Pyerite 2.4
Mex 32
Iso 60 ( made my first few mil in an iteron 5 hauling isogen around filling npc buy orders for 5k @ 72 or whatever)
Nocx 550 (amazing that this 'artificial high' has not changed since then... with the last month's panic excluded)
zydrine 6500
Mega 9000
that weird red fullerene stuff - didn't exist yet
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#39 - 2012-04-27 10:03:07 UTC
Kazu'ul wrote:


Not immediately relevant, but circa 2005 mineral prices from memory were about this
Tritanium 1.2 (consequent years of hisec ore botting made this less available, increasing demand which to this day has continued... I mean seriously, you used to scan good roids and stop your laser a cycle before they would pop so that others can mine .6 omber and stuff as well, as the belts regenerated during downtime but if you pop a roid it will randomly respawn and have a higher % chance of becoming a new veld rock as opposed to a 'better' one)
Pyerite 2.4
Mex 32
Iso 60 ( made my first few mil in an iteron 5 hauling isogen around filling npc buy orders for 5k @ 72 or whatever)
Nocx 550 (amazing that this 'artificial high' has not changed since then... with the last month's panic excluded)
zydrine 6500
Mega 9000


Shuttles capped tritanium at 2.4 until 2008. When I started, veld roids in highsec were not mined at all - and with the old roid art, they were so huge they visually merged together in giant veldblobs.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-04-27 11:11:40 UTC
The money has always been there to manipulate the market like this, but getting all those involved sailing in the right direction has always been the tricky part.

The changes made and still to come by CCP just made it easier for the marketeers to pull in the same direction instead of against each other.

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
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