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Well played Null Sec Zealots
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Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#101 - 2012-04-27 01:24:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Xorv wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

another topic;
I always think its funny. Ppl scream this game is a sandbox when its convenient to their argument then when they wanna talk about how lvl 4s shouldnt be in high sec they justify it with things like "well high sec is the beginner area and 0.0/low is endgame" like this ISNT A sandbox and is in fact a linear game like WoW. They think you shouldnt be able to make a living and play in High sec cause thats just a starter zone that leads to the real game.

Which is it? Is it a sandbox where you can live, play and make a living anywhere you choose or is it a linear game where theres a beginning, middle and end?


I'm trying to decide whether you're so angry you've become confused, or whether you're so confused you've become angry. Whatever the case it's clear you don't really understand the Sandbox concept in MMOs like EVE.


please explain then cause I see "sandbox" thrown up as proof for every argument IN EVE so I dont think maybe IM the only one confused.


A sandbox MMO is an open world game where players aren't set on a linear path as you correctly stated. Players are more or less free to pursue their own objectives within the game. Note I said pursue, not achieve. While players are free to make their own choices they are not free from the consequences of those choices nor the influence of other players. The game world is shared space, it's one sandbox with many people playing with the sand. Visualize a load of kids playing in a sandbox, you'll note that due to the physical nature of sand what one kid does with the sand affects the entire Sandbox, and therefore what all the other kids are doing in the sand. That's a key point, because Themepark games are usually designed so that players have little to no impact on the environment as a whole or other players. As it's name suggests a Themepark provides rides with static predictable outcomes that are essentially the same for everyone that participates.

The error I think you may be making as I see many gamers that come from Themepark games (such as Wow) is to interpret Sandbox to mean that all forms of gameplay including the antithesis of Sandbox gameplay, the Themepark is valid and should be catered to in the game. That's a little like thinking that a free society should be accepting of totalitarians' freedom to take away everyone's freedom.

Oh and the reason people speak of High Sec as a beginner area is that it has many of the elements of beginner areas in other Sandbox games, such as CONCORD and Crimewatch. The problem is no other Sandbox I can think of also has decent earning PvE in that same zone like Incursions and lvl 4s. Which is why some of us object so strongly to their presence in High Sec, it's very unbalancing to the rest of the game.
Just Lilly
#102 - 2012-04-27 01:39:21 UTC
No idea what OP is on about

Then again, wasting time ingame to generate isk when you can just add
a bunch of GTC's per week to get the more fun parts out of the game.

Unless you are poor irl that is, you have my condolences
Powered by Nvidia GTX 690
Shian Yang
#103 - 2012-04-27 01:49:03 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
I am banking on 3.5 trillion ISK injection from Incursions, and about 28-30 trillion from rest of the game.


Greetings capsuleer,

How many pilots are fighting back the forces of Kuvalei?

How many pilots are engaged in normal trading, clearing belts for industry or engaging with their agents to complete a series of mundane tasks?

I am guessing you will find the numbers fighting Kuvalei are earning more ISK per pilot than the others.

Regards,

Shian Yang
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-04-27 01:57:50 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
it's almost like CCP believes that higher risk should be rewarded


Typical reaction from the sociopath alliance propaganda squad.
I have lived din null sec.
I have lived in wh's.

You have less chance of being ganked in a plex/Sanctum/Haven in the space controlled by the goon and test alliances than you do mining in a 0.5 belt.


You have clearly never been to fountain or Deklein. During prime time you are lucky to be able to complete an anom without a hostile entering system.

Oh and us now former low/nullsec incursioners are also rather unhappy with the changes, it made all incursions worthless even the ones in low/null. We had even developed and tested out a very nice fleet doctorine for assault sites, and even assaults got nerfed to the point where L4s or anoms are better (and mining ABC is better still, and dont even get me started on W-space).
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-04-27 02:17:46 UTC
Xorv wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Xorv wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

another topic;
I always think its funny. Ppl scream this game is a sandbox when its convenient to their argument then when they wanna talk about how lvl 4s shouldnt be in high sec they justify it with things like "well high sec is the beginner area and 0.0/low is endgame" like this ISNT A sandbox and is in fact a linear game like WoW. They think you shouldnt be able to make a living and play in High sec cause thats just a starter zone that leads to the real game.

Which is it? Is it a sandbox where you can live, play and make a living anywhere you choose or is it a linear game where theres a beginning, middle and end?


I'm trying to decide whether you're so angry you've become confused, or whether you're so confused you've become angry. Whatever the case it's clear you don't really understand the Sandbox concept in MMOs like EVE.


please explain then cause I see "sandbox" thrown up as proof for every argument IN EVE so I dont think maybe IM the only one confused.


A sandbox MMO is an open world game where players aren't set on a linear path as you correctly stated. Players are more or less free to pursue their own objectives within the game. Note I said pursue, not achieve. While players are free to make their own choices they are not free from the consequences of those choices nor the influence of other players. The game world is shared space, it's one sandbox with many people playing with the sand. Visualize a load of kids playing in a sandbox, you'll note that due to the physical nature of sand what one kid does with the sand affects the entire Sandbox, and therefore what all the other kids are doing in the sand. That's a key point, because Themepark games are usually designed so that players have little to no impact on the environment as a whole or other players. As it's name suggests a Themepark provides rides with static predictable outcomes that are essentially the same for everyone that participates.

The error I think you may be making as I see many gamers that come from Themepark games (such as Wow) is to interpret Sandbox to mean that all forms of gameplay including the antithesis of Sandbox gameplay, the Themepark is valid and should be catered to in the game. That's a little like thinking that a free society should be accepting of totalitarians' freedom to take away everyone's freedom.

Oh and the reason people speak of High Sec as a beginner area is that it has many of the elements of beginner areas in other Sandbox games, such as CONCORD and Crimewatch. The problem is no other Sandbox I can think of also has decent earning PvE in that same zone like Incursions and lvl 4s. Which is why some of us object so strongly to their presence in High Sec, it's very unbalancing to the rest of the game.


So its not a sandbox is what youre saying... Ok ill remember to link this post the next time I see someone claiming that it is so they too can be corrected

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#106 - 2012-04-27 02:37:29 UTC
Just Lilly wrote:
No idea what OP is on about

Then again, wasting time ingame to generate isk when you can just add
a bunch of GTC's per week to get the more fun parts out of the game.

Unless you are poor irl that is, you have my condolences


Pay to play
Pay to Win.

Might as well add a cash shop and be done with it.

OP: Give it up, they don't care. You are a doormat.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2012-04-27 02:37:37 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
Stuff


Im a bit confused... This is written in a tone that all the above points are bad... kinda confusing since all the above are awesome.

Why dont you and your 70% (70% which are mostly just alts of null sec people by the way) go do something about it, go take some null sec space... or cry some more... whatever works for you really.

#1 for OP: The more you react, and let "them" under your skin, the more "they" like it.

Complain to your friends or neighbors. Hell, go visit the crazy lady down the street and take her old throw rug out and hang it on the clothes line (you know, the one her old dog used to **** on all the time) and beat it with a baseball bat for half-an-hour. At least that way you'll have accomplished something. But don't come to the forums and complain. It just feeds "them"... And the more you complain, the happier they are...

#2 for Nirnias: CCP released numbers @ fanfest that say 20% of all characters are in Null. In the 4th Quarter QEN for 2010 (last one we got) CCP reported that the average is 2.2 accounts/player. Even if every Null Sec resident had a hi-sec alt, that's still only 20%... So 20 (in Null) and 20 (alts in Hi-sec) = 40%...

So I'm pretty sure they aren't "mostly just alts of null sec people".

I really don't think (at this point in the game) we're going to see a bunch of hi-sec/low-sec or WH' peoples banding together to dislodge a null-sec alliance. Too many caps/super caps in game. I just don't see it happening.

Hell, I don't even think it's possible anymore.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#108 - 2012-04-27 03:24:00 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Xorv wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Xorv wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

another topic;
I always think its funny. Ppl scream this game is a sandbox when its convenient to their argument then when they wanna talk about how lvl 4s shouldnt be in high sec they justify it with things like "well high sec is the beginner area and 0.0/low is endgame" like this ISNT A sandbox and is in fact a linear game like WoW. They think you shouldnt be able to make a living and play in High sec cause thats just a starter zone that leads to the real game.

Which is it? Is it a sandbox where you can live, play and make a living anywhere you choose or is it a linear game where theres a beginning, middle and end?


I'm trying to decide whether you're so angry you've become confused, or whether you're so confused you've become angry. Whatever the case it's clear you don't really understand the Sandbox concept in MMOs like EVE.


please explain then cause I see "sandbox" thrown up as proof for every argument IN EVE so I dont think maybe IM the only one confused.


A sandbox MMO is an open world game where players aren't set on a linear path as you correctly stated. Players are more or less free to pursue their own objectives within the game. Note I said pursue, not achieve. While players are free to make their own choices they are not free from the consequences of those choices nor the influence of other players. The game world is shared space, it's one sandbox with many people playing with the sand. Visualize a load of kids playing in a sandbox, you'll note that due to the physical nature of sand what one kid does with the sand affects the entire Sandbox, and therefore what all the other kids are doing in the sand. That's a key point, because Themepark games are usually designed so that players have little to no impact on the environment as a whole or other players. As it's name suggests a Themepark provides rides with static predictable outcomes that are essentially the same for everyone that participates.

The error I think you may be making as I see many gamers that come from Themepark games (such as Wow) is to interpret Sandbox to mean that all forms of gameplay including the antithesis of Sandbox gameplay, the Themepark is valid and should be catered to in the game. That's a little like thinking that a free society should be accepting of totalitarians' freedom to take away everyone's freedom.

Oh and the reason people speak of High Sec as a beginner area is that it has many of the elements of beginner areas in other Sandbox games, such as CONCORD and Crimewatch. The problem is no other Sandbox I can think of also has decent earning PvE in that same zone like Incursions and lvl 4s. Which is why some of us object so strongly to their presence in High Sec, it's very unbalancing to the rest of the game.


So its not a sandbox is what youre saying... Ok ill remember to link this post the next time I see someone claiming that it is so they too can be corrected


Explain what you think a sandbox is supposed to be, then?

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#109 - 2012-04-27 03:27:58 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

So its not a sandbox is what youre saying... Ok ill remember to link this post the next time I see someone claiming that it is so they too can be corrected


Explain what you think a sandbox is supposed to be, then?


He's still angry and confused, he's not capable of explaining anything.
Ezekiel DeSangre
#110 - 2012-04-27 04:20:04 UTC
I came looking for epic null sec battle involving an entire fleet of Zealots. I am quite disappointed.

Meh..
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-04-27 04:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Xorv wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

So its not a sandbox is what youre saying... Ok ill remember to link this post the next time I see someone claiming that it is so they too can be corrected


Explain what you think a sandbox is supposed to be, then?


He's still angry and confused, he's not capable of explaining anything.


I asked YOU to explain what it was if NOT an sandbox... you explained, whats the confusion?
If it IS a sandbox you should not have provided an explanation cause I would have been correct in saying that theres no beginning, middle and end as there is none in a sandbox style game as this supposedly is.

Lapine Davion wrote:


Explain what you think a sandbox is supposed to be, then?


Minecraft is a sandbox. Where the point of the game is nothing more than playing in the sandbox, there is no middle, beginning, nor end and you are free to play the game as you see fit because it is a sandbox.

Which, as most other players claim THIS game IS when the argument is turned towards wether or not you should be able to freely PVP. When the argument is turned towards things like lvl 4 missions and Incursions, people think High sec is a training area for low and null when it is not because these areas do not exist in a sandbox style game. It is just another part of the sandbox. A part of the sandbox with a necessary protection device cause how else is it called "High" sec if there is nothing that differentuates between "low" and "null"? And looking to was the game WAS is useless cause it is that no longer, and looking to downgrade the game from what it is now to what it was then only makes the game worse not better.

It either IS a sandbox style game or it is NOT one. Theres really no fuzzy grey area in between where it is but isnt.

What you think of as making the game "easier" or "dumbed down" makes it more popular. Sorry, but it does. That means you end up getting more people of the casual masses and less of the hard core old schoolers yes, but its kind of a necessary evil as there are more of these to be had and any MMO tends to want to go for the larger audience than the smaller.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#112 - 2012-04-27 05:55:28 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:

What is the odds of hearing rumblings by June of removing T2 mfg/invention from high sec?
...
, with no high sec at all.


These are both good ideas.

.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#113 - 2012-04-27 06:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

It either IS a sandbox style game or it is NOT one. Theres really no fuzzy grey area in between where it is but isnt.


CCP calls it a Sandbox, it's not me throwing that label on the game. But yes, there's elements of High Sec that are very anti Sandbox, and I think they should change.

Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:

What you think of as making the game "easier" or "dumbed down" makes it more popular. Sorry, but it does. That means you end up getting more people of the casual masses and less of the hard core old schoolers yes, but its kind of a necessary evil as there are more of these to be had and any MMO tends to want to go for the larger audience than the smaller.


An unproven opinion, just because Wow has tons of subs doesn't mean EVE will if it becomes a Themepark MMO, there's a lot of Wow clones that have not done very well. EVE has lasted this long because of its Sandbox and complex nature, not by catering to fools that should be playing Wow instead of complaining about sandbox gameplay and PvP on a forum for a sandbox PvP game.

BTW... CCPs new slogan for this game is EVE is Hard Are you up to the challenge? I would say they're getting back on track and not interested in attracting more players like you to the game.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#114 - 2012-04-27 07:35:57 UTC
Posting in yet another "THE SKY IS FALLING!!!" thread.

Change is good and saves us from stagnation.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#115 - 2012-04-27 07:39:07 UTC
So, your saying passive income where you literally have to do nothign (datacores) is being nerfed.

Minerals will come from mining rather than shooting.

Hisec incursions are nerfbatted to hell, meaning risk free pve is now less profitable.



Is that what you are saying? If so, looks good to me, back to more like how things should be.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Mordiggian ZulBhaSair
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2012-04-27 07:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mordiggian ZulBhaSair
Vince Snetterton wrote:
You would be quite happy to see half of the current subscription base in the game, with no high sec at all.


Can't we just lower sec status everywhere to 0.0 or less?
Cass Lie
State War Academy
Caldari State
#117 - 2012-04-27 08:00:31 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
if you pve in highsec with a nullsec mentality you will literally never die

That is correct.


Because you won't undock. It's hard to properly outnumber neuts in local in high sec.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-04-27 08:45:01 UTC
Cass Lie wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
if you pve in highsec with a nullsec mentality you will literally never die

That is correct.


Because you won't undock. It's hard to properly outnumber neuts in local in high sec.


"hmm this guy is outlaw flagged and there's a hulk wreck next to me, surely it's safe to mine"

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#119 - 2012-04-27 09:57:38 UTC
The difference between hisec forum warriors and rest of the players:

Other players care for the game.
Hisec forum warriors only care for their personal imaginary space kredit wallets.

.
Zora'e
#120 - 2012-04-27 16:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Zora'e
Tinnin Sylph wrote:
Tinnin Sylph wrote:
... join/found a 0.0 corp and enjoy the higher profits that go along with the increased effort involved for you and your corp mates.



That's kind of the point.

But if you want lower effort just join an existing corp. Or, stay in High Sec and accept lower profits. I honestly can't see what part of this could be confusing or considered broken.


Frankly, I don't do well around large groups of people, neither in game or real life. I don't like most people I meet because I have a very low tolerance for idiocy, stupidity and childishly moronic commentary. Might be because I'm 47 and actually grew up (a little anyway).

So.. I tend to go off and do my own thing rather than interact with a bunch of people I wouldn't give the time of day in real life, let alone a game because of their thinking and behavior. Due to that, I'm pretty limited to where I play. It's either WH's which are insane and sometimes fun, or do roams in low/null which is insanely boring, or siting in high sec station spinning which is even MORE boring (but pretty much all I do anymore).

On average I make about 30 million isk a week. Not because I can't earn more, because I could if I got off my hiney and went looking for things to do, but because frankly, there is very little in this game I find enjoyable anymore. Done the blobs. Done the medium and small gang warfare. Bashed a Pos or two. None of it really was all that exiting.

So I station spin. Run a mission or two a week at best. Chat with the 3-4 people I am actually friends with in game and station spin some more.

Find me something interesting, exciting and challenging out in Null and I'd move there. There isn't.

Fact is. There isn't crap in this game that IS fun or exciting. Makes me wonder why I bother keeping a sub running.

*edit* Frankly I WISH I still had the enthusiasm I had for the game even as much as a year ago or so. Guess I'm doing it wrong but I just haven't found that niche I really dig. WH's were close but even there it got boring really fast. Spent time in Low and Null, same thing. Tried mining *gagged*, manufacturing.. boring. pretty much... bored to tears. LOL. Oh well, i'mma go grab another beer. Always makes things better.

I won't say you are stupid, but you're not exactly on the Zombie menu either.