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What if it is the players who suck ?

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Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2011-09-29 15:54:39 UTC
Deopheel Dalonne wrote:
We hear all this talk about how Eve is broken, how players are leaving in droves and O! how miserable a job CCP is doing ...

But what if Eve is fine and it is the players who suck ?

What I mean is this. Yes, Eve is a game. But it is also an experiment.

Eve is a simulator. And so from the begining, it was more than just a game. It was an attempt to see what a bunch of guys with spaceships, FTL and a space based economy, given the opportunity to colonize the galaxy would do.

Well, maybe we have picked the wrong guys ...


Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.

Golem • CCP In-Game Event 2011.11.23 • Nyio • Grenade?
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
Ivy League Alt Alliance
#82 - 2011-09-29 16:02:02 UTC
Nyjo wrote:

Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.


^ This, and this!



oh!


did I mention this ^ ?

"It is when I think about meaning that I lose what I meant to say."     -Swooshie
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#83 - 2011-09-29 16:05:09 UTC
Nyio wrote:


Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.


Most companies reserve the right to refuse service to those customers as well.

Just because you can walk into a McDonald's and buy a burger doesn't mean they won't ban you from the store afterwards if you scream at all the children and scare off the customers.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Deopheel Dalonne
Eridu Productions
#84 - 2011-09-29 16:06:33 UTC
Nyio wrote:
Deopheel Dalonne wrote:
We hear all this talk about how Eve is broken, how players are leaving in droves and O! how miserable a job CCP is doing ...

But what if Eve is fine and it is the players who suck ?

What I mean is this. Yes, Eve is a game. But it is also an experiment.

Eve is a simulator. And so from the begining, it was more than just a game. It was an attempt to see what a bunch of guys with spaceships, FTL and a space based economy, given the opportunity to colonize the galaxy would do.

Well, maybe we have picked the wrong guys ...


Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.

So what ? Paying customers never suck ?

People who buy McMansions or Hummer-like outrageaous SUVs do not suck ?
Swooshie
USA Canada Private Corp
Ivy League Alt Alliance
#85 - 2011-09-29 16:07:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Swooshie
Mendolus wrote:
Nyio wrote:


Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.


Most companies reserve the right to refuse service to those customers as well.

Just because you can walk into a McDonald's and buy a burger doesn't mean they won't ban you from the store afterwards if you scream at all the children and scare off the customers.


We're not talking about misbehaving kids running wild on the McDonald's ground. We're talking about pissed off customers who feel like someone took a **** in their burgers.

There is an end to the value of semantics in an argument, it would be useful to see it when it becomes so implicitly clear.

"It is when I think about meaning that I lose what I meant to say."     -Swooshie
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#86 - 2011-09-29 16:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Mendolus
Swooshie wrote:
Mendolus wrote:
Nyio wrote:


Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.


Most companies reserve the right to refuse service to those customers as well.

Just because you can walk into a McDonald's and buy a burger doesn't mean they won't ban you from the store afterwards if you scream at all the children and scare off the customers.


We're not talking about misbehaving kids running wild on the McDonald's ground. We're talking about pissed off customers who feel like someone took a **** in their burgers.

There is an end to the value of semantics in an argument, it would be useful to see it when it becomes so implicitly clear.


I'm just saying that being a paying customer does not give a subscriber the right to do or say anything they please so long as it does not explicitly break the EULA and CCP reserves the right to make the determination on their own what actions to take against any subscriber they find fault with, at their discretion.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2011-09-29 16:15:50 UTC
Mendolus wrote:
Nyio wrote:


Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.


Most companies reserve the right to refuse service to those customers as well.

Just because you can walk into a McDonald's and buy a burger doesn't mean they won't ban you from the store afterwards if you scream at all the children and scare off the customers.


Banned from McDonald's Oh Noes! Lol

Banned from EVE, for having an opinion? Lol

(Also I could imagine far worse things that could happen online.)

Golem • CCP In-Game Event 2011.11.23 • Nyio • Grenade?
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#88 - 2011-09-29 16:21:34 UTC
Nyio wrote:
Mendolus wrote:
Nyio wrote:


Wort post ever!

Players = paying customers, sucky or not.


Most companies reserve the right to refuse service to those customers as well.

Just because you can walk into a McDonald's and buy a burger doesn't mean they won't ban you from the store afterwards if you scream at all the children and scare off the customers.


Banned from McDonald's Oh Noes! Lol

Banned from EVE, for having an opinion? Lol

(Also I could imagine far worse things that could happen online.)


Hardly, you're making assumptions about stances I never stated having.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Deopheel Dalonne
Eridu Productions
#89 - 2011-09-29 16:25:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Deopheel Dalonne
In a market-driven economy, there are always going to be customers who suck and therefore ruin everything for others.

McMansion buyers,
Mammoth SUV buyers,
Stupid TV addicts,
Stupid game addicts,

The last two categories mainly suck because they orient market forces in a way that results in low-grade or downright noxious products by crowding out those who have better taste or better judgement.

But there are also those who suck more directly because they cause direct harm to their neighbours: loud music, bike noise, dogs that **** on lawns, etc ...

EvE online has plenty of players in both categories.
Razin
The Scope
#90 - 2011-09-29 16:51:25 UTC
Deopheel Dalonne wrote:
In a market-driven economy, there are always going to be customers who suck and therefore ruin everything for others.

McMansion buyers,
Mammoth SUV buyers,
Stupid TV addicts,
Stupid game addicts,

The last two categories mainly suck because they orient market forces in a way that results in low-grade or downright noxious products by crowding out those who have better taste or better judgement.

But there are also those who suck more directly because they cause direct harm to their neighbours: loud music, bike noise, dogs that **** on lawns, etc ...

EvE online has plenty of players in both categories.

Add to your list customers who accept bad quality product and inferior service, and worst of all, customers who shill for the offending provider.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#91 - 2011-09-29 16:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
I was thinking and I came up with this idea.
Imagine if you will If CCP had the hardware:

On the first shard: CCP makes the game the way they want to, with their vision of how it should be.
On the second shard: Everything people (Forum, CSM) ask for.

Have them going side by side for 6 months or shorter, and then at the end, have a huge vote to see which one people like best and just have that one?

I know it'd never happen cause it'd take a lot of time/work to do something like this. But it'd be interesting to see.
Maybe just 2 small test servers with 5-10 systems each, for people to fly around and test the ships on each other.


The thing is the second shard would be a mess because there are just too many of you dodgy bastards and none of you could figure out which ideas to use. Because everyone would have their own idea and the chopping and changing would never end.

There are just too many customers for everyone to get what they want.. That's why they suck!
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#92 - 2011-09-29 17:04:18 UTC
non judgement wrote:
I was thinking and I came up with this idea.
Imagine if you will If CCP had the hardware:

On the first shard: CCP makes the game the way they want to, with their vision of how it should be.
On the second shard: Everything people (Forum, CSM) ask for.

Have them going side by side for 6 months or shorter, and then at the end, have a huge vote to see which one people like best and just have that one?

I know it'd never happen cause it'd take a lot of time/work to do something like this. But it'd be interesting to see.
Maybe just 2 small test servers with 5-10 systems each, for people to fly around and test the ships on each other.


The thing is the second shard would be a mess because there are just too many of you dodgy bastards and none of you could figure out which ideas to use. Because everyone would have their own idea and the chopping and changing would never end.

There are just too many customers for everyone to get what they want.. That's why they suck!


What you would end up with is a game that resembles the original pong and people would STILL be clamoring that Player A has more advantages than Player B even when there's just a joystick screwed onto a plastic housing and that's the only way to interact with the game. Their first argument would be that the letter A is before the letter B in the alphabet and causes extreme psychological duress and is totally unacceptable and unfair competition!

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#93 - 2011-09-29 18:32:30 UTC
EVE how it is right now, is becouse of the community, becouse ccp was listening to us in the past, this has changed recently as everyone should know.

BUT it seems like CCP is comming back to it's old behavior,
at the end of the day, EVE has to be sexy for it's playerbase, and not for CCP.

so if we suck or not, we are the consumers, without the sucky consumers, eve and ccp would be nothing.

and without people investing YEARS of time into this game, adn then emorage because of the "something awfull is going to happen if this is beeing changed" feeling, this is not just a bad feeling, it's called human instinct, when you do something for 7 years, you know every little detail about it without realising it.

Thats why it was a good thing how the development of eve went till dominion, and then... ccp startet to get cocky, and that went wrong.
okst666
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2011-09-29 20:05:25 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
It is not the players that are wwrong nor is the game wrong;, sure it isn't perfect,nor is it bad , or we wouldn't pay 15€ a month to play it

It is a small vocal minority that can't find anything good in the game or about ccp and are very vocal about it on these forums

We all know the huge majority of players never post on these forums nor care about these forum trolls , forum warriors and the forum doomsayers of EVE online

So in a sense you are right it is the players , but only this small group mentioned above that are wrong


EXACTLY THIS! +10

In german we have a winged word for that: "Bock zum Gärtner machen"..
it basically means "to make the greatest idiot for a role in charge"

That is what is happening here... And I am afraid that CCP really thinks that they should listen to all that CSM-****.

CCP is the company - they have to say how the game should work!

I cannot find the right words for it (drunk, german, english is difficult (we had that in another thread)... All I want to say.. DOWN WITH CSM - it is absolutly useless. I dont give a **** on WH, on 0.0. make more Missions!! I do 2 missions a day...the last few days it was blockade and rouge drone slavers... we definatly need more missions.


[X] < Nail here for new monitor
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#95 - 2011-09-29 23:55:07 UTC
Mendolus wrote:
non judgement wrote:
I was thinking and I came up with this idea.
Imagine if you will If CCP had the hardware:

On the first shard: CCP makes the game the way they want to, with their vision of how it should be.
On the second shard: Everything people (Forum, CSM) ask for.

Have them going side by side for 6 months or shorter, and then at the end, have a huge vote to see which one people like best and just have that one?

I know it'd never happen cause it'd take a lot of time/work to do something like this. But it'd be interesting to see.
Maybe just 2 small test servers with 5-10 systems each, for people to fly around and test the ships on each other.


The thing is the second shard would be a mess because there are just too many of you dodgy bastards and none of you could figure out which ideas to use. Because everyone would have their own idea and the chopping and changing would never end.

There are just too many customers for everyone to get what they want.. That's why they suck!


What you would end up with is a game that resembles the original pong and people would STILL be clamoring that Player A has more advantages than Player B even when there's just a joystick screwed onto a plastic housing and that's the only way to interact with the game. Their first argument would be that the letter A is before the letter B in the alphabet and causes extreme psychological duress and is totally unacceptable and unfair competition!


exactly...

It might even be this simple:
If you look at when CCP was changing motherships into supercarriers. They thought their initial version was too strong and suggested a weaker version of the supercarrier. Lots of people complained about the nerf of the new supercarrier before it had been released on to the server. So they left their newsupercarrier as strong as it was on to the main server. Now look what has happened.

Lets face it, we don't know what is best for us.

If there are people who know what is best. They weren't the ones telling CCP not to nerf the new supercarrier.

Hindsight is great. But it is the very good example of this.
Deopheel Dalonne
Eridu Productions
#96 - 2011-09-30 05:37:55 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
You could always end up with the WOW thing

they made it too noob friendly and all the old players left. all that happened was a new group of players started playing

As a I said above, actually CCP counted on the "old" players to help and inspire the "noobs"

Since the "old" players proved unequal to the task, they had to to take care of the "noobs" (who are the ones who pay the bulk of subscriptions and thus allow EvE to exist at all) themselves.

If "old" players had been slightly more evolved, the original goal of CCP COULD have been achieved.
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#97 - 2011-09-30 06:51:00 UTC
Deopheel Dalonne wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
You could always end up with the WOW thing

they made it too noob friendly and all the old players left. all that happened was a new group of players started playing

As a I said above, actually CCP counted on the "old" players to help and inspire the "noobs"

Since the "old" players proved unequal to the task, they had to to take care of the "noobs" (who are the ones who pay the bulk of subscriptions and thus allow EvE to exist at all) themselves.

If "old" players had been slightly more evolved, the original goal of CCP COULD have been achieved.



As i've stated already more then half of the universe are bitter vets, i don't know anyone who hasn't got at least 1 rxtra account. as an example i've got 3.

So make a basic calculation: 30 k bittervets x 3 accounts = 90 k
so nearly one third of the paying accounts are thoose old guys.

And many have got more then 3 accounts.

That shoul come pretty close to whats the fact.
The subscription drop that happens? Were mostly dropped alts.
Signal11th
#98 - 2011-09-30 07:57:18 UTC
Jokerface666 wrote:
James you're partially right in my eyes.

for me eve is THe ultimate end of the world simulator, what would happen if there wouldn't be rules and police in the world...
Me personally would steal, kill, scam wherever i can to benefit, if this means i have to make other people "bend over" it's ok for me.

As an example Deopheel would be one of the guys i'd keep in a cage and let them out when i am bored to torture him...

so gtfo with your happy world theory and all people should love each other, damn hippy.

and to the UNICEF part, i was born in a warzone with the "help" of unicef.... so go **** yourself and your unicef!

gtfo



Yep so you being born in a warzone has made you want to cheat,scam and kill instead of trying to make place you obviously disliked better. You sir are a very sad man..

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Deopheel Dalonne
Eridu Productions
#99 - 2011-09-30 08:48:09 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Jokerface666 wrote:
James you're partially right in my eyes.

for me eve is THe ultimate end of the world simulator, what would happen if there wouldn't be rules and police in the world...
Me personally would steal, kill, scam wherever i can to benefit, if this means i have to make other people "bend over" it's ok for me.

As an example Deopheel would be one of the guys i'd keep in a cage and let them out when i am bored to torture him...

so gtfo with your happy world theory and all people should love each other, damn hippy.

and to the UNICEF part, i was born in a warzone with the "help" of unicef.... so go **** yourself and your unicef!

gtfo

Yep so you being born in a warzone has made you want to cheat,scam and kill instead of trying to make place you obviously disliked better. You sir are a very sad man..

This attitude is indeed sad but it is not uncommon.

It is the chief reason why countries like Somalia or Afghanistan or Chechenya stay the way they are.
Jokerface666
Intergalactic Expeditionary Corp
#100 - 2011-09-30 09:38:53 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Jokerface666 wrote:
James you're partially right in my eyes.

for me eve is THe ultimate end of the world simulator, what would happen if there wouldn't be rules and police in the world...
Me personally would steal, kill, scam wherever i can to benefit, if this means i have to make other people "bend over" it's ok for me.

As an example Deopheel would be one of the guys i'd keep in a cage and let them out when i am bored to torture him...

so gtfo with your happy world theory and all people should love each other, damn hippy.

and to the UNICEF part, i was born in a warzone with the "help" of unicef.... so go **** yourself and your unicef!

gtfo



Yep so you being born in a warzone has made you want to cheat,scam and kill instead of trying to make place you obviously disliked better. You sir are a very sad man..


Nope i just know that every human, in an extrem situation will try to benefit over others.
You can say whatever you want, it's just the human nature.

And eve is showing this pretty good, a sandbox, where we could've made "woodstock in space", but we didn't we kill, scam and cheat.
You may ask why, just because we can.