Player Features and Ideas Discussion

OK a couple of things.

sounds like you lost a t2 ship and found out you get peanuts in insurance payout.
this is working as intended mostly.

Insurance value is based on the min values and quants used to build the item.
If you look at a t2 ship bpo you'll see more than half the value is in pi and moon goo comps and the like.
these other items are not included in the insurance payout calculation.

Its thought that the buff in the ships ability's more than makes up for the lower insurance payout.

the second piece is that, t2 ship building do not in the most part affect the actual market price in t2 ships due to the low number of ships being built via t2 bpo's vrs what the market actually purchases.

if your annoyed because your not making isk inventing t2 ships, well its pretty much tough luck invent something else.
some people are happy to work on low low margins and they are for the most part responsible for low markups.

NO, I haven't lost a t2 recently.

However, i do know that in having a t2, you're taking a risk of losing a lot of isk if the ship is destroyed. However, I've wondered why it was such a huge difference. Like I said with the golem it is 800% more than the insurance payout.
The manticore, for example, is closer to 1000%.

I'm not at all saying that I want my t2 ship fully insured. That would be a terrible idea and there would be no such thing as t1 ships being flown anymore in pvp, unless the player didn't yet have the skill for those ships.

I also somewhat realize that invention bpcs leave little room for profit for the ship constructor.

The massive difference in price and insurance payout, coupled with the small window of profit would suggest to me that if you allowed t2 bpcs made from t1 bpos to have a percentage of the research done to also affect the t2 bpc quality, than it would give a little more profit to the ship constructors, and would reduce the manufactoring costs, thus allowing the market to be more competitive.

Right now, people selling t2 ships have a bottom line of what they can sell the ship for. However, anyone with a t2 bpo can come in and undercut them with no problems because they're actually able to research their blue print to make if more efficient.

This doesn't so much apply to t2 ships as much as it does with t2 ammo. Take t2 missiles for example. There is a very small window of profit for those who invent t2 bpcs. However, someone with a researched t2 bpo will have a much large window of profit and be able to under cut everyone.

Taking t2 bpos out of the game is just step 1. it's to keep any single person from having an advantage over another that isn't skill or fit related.

Step 2 is allow, we'll say 25% of the research done to the t1 bpo to effect the efficiency of the t2 bpc. This will allow t2 items to be cheaper to manufacture, which will give manufacturers a larger window of profit, which may help to reduce prices slightly.

That's exactly what I'm talking about

Which is exactly why I suggested removing t 2 b p os from the game

Then allow tech 2 blueprint copies that originated from tech 1 blueprint originals to you have a percentage of the research done to affect the quality of the tech 2blueprint copies

This would allow all players you have the same benefits when it comes to production

Try a ridiculous amount of profit for the ship constructor



No, it wouldnt, all it would do is limit invention to those who have had BPOs for a long time limiting the possible invention market. IE right now, anyone can buy a T1 BPO and begin to copy it for invention, in your system that would no longer be true.



I dont see your problem with that, they have billions tied up in the T2 BPO, but this doesnt effect your bottom line as an inventor. If the T2 BPOs were to explode tomorrow, the price of T2 wouldnt change very much because on all but a very small percentage of things, inventors set the prices.



your problem here is a limited demand, but that's fine because you can switch what you manufacture, someone with a T2 BPO cannot.



it will not give manufacturers a larger window of profit, its just going to make having a well researched BPO a requirement to begin invention. Especially because the T2 components you're eliminating by research are way more expensive than the minerals you eliminate by researching a T1 BPO

What about: instead of removing them give a chance on invention to create T2 BPO's?

Amused Lurch imitation voice : You rang ?

Flat statement : This topic has been beaten more than the proverbial dead horse in the old forum.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1360780
Authoritative demand : Go read it ASAP.

Mild sarcasm : Dear OP, enjoy your (re)education session, I am sure you will appreciate it hugely and learn a lot from it.

when did Akita T get replaced by HK-47?

I love eve, but there are things about it that need to be changed. most of those things are "Working as Intended"

Most of the suggestions that I make are additions. Everyonce in a while I'll make a balancing suggestion, or something along that lines, but it typically involves adding something.

For instance, in this case I'm not saying that t2 bpos are working as intended, and i'm not saying they aren't working as intended.

I'm simply saying that the t2 bpos were an unfair lottery given away, and now that t1 bpos can have invention done on them to create t2 bpcs, take t2 bpos completely out of the game and allow the t1 invention copies made to have a certain percentage of the research done on them to affect the invent copy.

t2 bpos can have tons of research done on them to affect the quality of the blueprint, copies from invention can't.
That's a bit broken because it allows people with t2 bpos to undercut everyone else and still make a much higher profit margin than other players.

Doing what i'm suggesting for everything in game means equal opportunity.

This is CCPs main issue. They introduce something in the game and don't step back and look at how it effects the game as a whole. Super Carriers being a prime example.
However, instead of me saying this is unfair to other players, I'm tossing up a suggestion that balances it and give everyone the same opportunities. Any t2 BPO in game is going to be here for a long time to come. Most of the people with one aren't dumb enough to transport it anywhere....

Take it from those guys and give the a t1 bpo fully researched.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=15557
Deflective statement : Recently.


Condescending observation : That's not quite what you started with in the OP, but let's say we'll focus on the above.

Factual statement : It is true that the invention system could use improvement, but improving invention and the continued existence of T2 BPOs are not mutually exclusive.
Cynical : One has to wonder whether you intentionally refuse to consider them as two completely separate things that might require attention, or whether you genuinely did not consider the separation.

Pragmatic musings : The main perceived problem with T2 BPOs is unfairness at the manufacture cost level, so if one could invent T2 BPCs that have significant positive ME/PE values, the perception problem would noticeably diminish.
Having those options cost roughly as much as they do today (or even less) will make most of the current negative perception go away, without actually touching T2 BPOs at all.

Delayed annoyance : You are aware that the problem really is one of perception, aren't you ? For all items where demand is high, it's invention that sets the price, not T2 BPOs. Only for low demand (low volume) items does the price go below invention break-even, and very quickly drops to barely BPO manufacture breakeven - for those items, removing T2 BPOs without radically improving invention would basically mean they traded volume would go even lower, maybe even practically as good as vanishing altogether.

now why would i want my investment in t2 bpo to go out the drain ? i have about 300 bill in t2 bpo. refund that and i dont care! stopwhining and start buying up t2 bpo.. this debate is very old.