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Crime & Punishment

 
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Regarding Highsec Rules of Engagement
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Rastin Crysknife
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-25 07:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rastin Crysknife
I'm still and admittedly new player, and maybe I'm missing something here, but are the rules of engagment regarding fleet assistance in PvP jacked up in terms of a double standard being applied to support by fire and support by logistics?

Specifically, I was hanging out with some friends who were mining in high-sec, playing supperfolous escort in a combat ship. Yellow guy shows up, and then turns red. I open fire, and I'm breaking his tank, while he neuts and scrams me. no biggie, his only DPS is from hammerheads, and my thermal resistance is adequate that I'll kill him first. Then a friend of his shows up, and starts remote repping him. Well, ****, now I can't break his tank, but my fleetmates can't apply even their limited DPS to the attacking drones or either of my opponents. Long story short, I made some mistakes, but I still could have won the fight if the second character (probably a dual-box, honestly, but w/e) hadn't returned after I blew him up (within about 30 seconds, wtf), or if my fleetmates could have helped kill the drones that were attacking me.

My problem isn't that I lost the ship, necessarily, but rather, that assisting a ship actiely in combat via logistics (ala repairing) won't get concord called down on you, but assisting a ship in combat by engaging attacking drones will. It's an improper double-standard, especially when you can repair a friendly ship for more damage than an attacking ship can dish out.

If other members of your fleet aren't supposed to get involved in a fight between you and another person in highsec, then don't let them get involved via logistics either. If they are allowed, allow them to support by fire as well. Otherwise, its simply inconsistant application of the concept.

/rant

Bob is always present, watching you traverse space accessable only though wormholes. He is the constant reminder that there is always someone watching you, waiting for your moment of weakness to appear and claim his toll for collecting the bounty of his realm.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#2 - 2012-04-25 07:43:53 UTC
Its an issue that is being resolved by CCP. They have already taken several steps to try and fix it, the new crimewatch should be alot better than the obviously lacking system we have now.

Neutral RR is for cowards.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
freebree
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-04-25 09:21:13 UTC
This is exactly some of the keynotes from crimewatch eve fanfest.

When a player assist another hostile player, it is suppose to get a suspicion flag which allows everyone to shoot at that target.
It has almost the same effect as Global criminal cooldown, just that faction police and concord wont interfere.

Any player assisting or attacking that suspected player will also receive a suspicion flag as well.
Garven Dreis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-25 09:46:21 UTC
I think you'll also find that less people will engage in fights in High Sec when logistics are able to be shot at by everyone. It looks like easy kills to me.

Terrible Poster Runner-up 2014
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
#5 - 2012-04-25 10:11:37 UTC
Rastin Crysknife wrote:


If other members of your fleet aren't supposed to get involved in a fight between you and another person in highsec, then don't let them get involved via logistics either. If they are allowed, allow them to support by fire as well. Otherwise, its simply inconsistant application of the concept.

/rant


So.... for the moment, the lesson is to make sure you have logistics at your disposal too. Your observations are spot-on but the solution, really, is to learn from it and see what that guy did as a good idea that you can use to your advantage next time.

Here's the link to a video about crimewatch from the 2012 fanfest. Judging by what I see here, I suspect it will still be some months before the new mechanics are implemented and some more months before everything that gets broken by the changes is fixed and working as intended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATviAvGK1ik

Rastin Crysknife
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-25 11:14:49 UTC
Alright, so CCP knows that the current system is flawed and they're working to fix it.

I understand perfectly what happened. I'm just pointing out (apparently redundantly) that this is stupid.

Bob is always present, watching you traverse space accessable only though wormholes. He is the constant reminder that there is always someone watching you, waiting for your moment of weakness to appear and claim his toll for collecting the bounty of his realm.
Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-04-25 14:34:33 UTC
If your fleet mates were in the same corp as you they could have helped since I assume the aggressor stole loot to turn red.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2012-04-25 16:44:16 UTC
Sutskop wrote:
If your fleet mates were in the same corp as you they could have helped since I assume the aggressor stole loot to turn red.


Lesson learned - it doesn't usually pay to attack looters. They do this stuff on purpose, and of course they are going to do everything they can to kill you and survive themselves. They wouldn't have stolen your worthless loot or your ore unless they wanted to bait you into an attack...

Second thought, shoot everything that steals from you. It makes the game more interesting Twisted
Rastin Crysknife
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-25 16:45:00 UTC
Fleet-mates were not in the same corp. They were still in the starter corp, while I had formed a new corp with a couple of other friends, but I still associated with these ones.

I can hardly wait for the new crimewatch system described at fanfest to be implemented. The current system is just arcane.

Bob is always present, watching you traverse space accessable only though wormholes. He is the constant reminder that there is always someone watching you, waiting for your moment of weakness to appear and claim his toll for collecting the bounty of his realm.
Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen
#10 - 2012-04-25 17:53:53 UTC
Rastin Crysknife wrote:
I'm still and admittedly new player, and maybe I'm missing something here, but are the rules of engagment regarding fleet assistance in PvP jacked up in terms of a double standard being applied to support by fire and support by logistics?

Specifically, I was hanging out with some friends who were mining in high-sec, playing supperfolous escort in a combat ship. Yellow guy shows up, and then turns red. I open fire, and I'm breaking his tank, while he neuts and scrams me. no biggie, his only DPS is from hammerheads, and my thermal resistance is adequate that I'll kill him first. Then a friend of his shows up, and starts remote repping him. Well, ****, now I can't break his tank, but my fleetmates can't apply even their limited DPS to the attacking drones or either of my opponents. Long story short, I made some mistakes, but I still could have won the fight if the second character (probably a dual-box, honestly, but w/e) hadn't returned after I blew him up (within about 30 seconds, wtf), or if my fleetmates could have helped kill the drones that were attacking me.

My problem isn't that I lost the ship, necessarily, but rather, that assisting a ship actiely in combat via logistics (ala repairing) won't get concord called down on you, but assisting a ship in combat by engaging attacking drones will. It's an improper double-standard, especially when you can repair a friendly ship for more damage than an attacking ship can dish out.

If other members of your fleet aren't supposed to get involved in a fight between you and another person in highsec, then don't let them get involved via logistics either. If they are allowed, allow them to support by fire as well. Otherwise, its simply inconsistant application of the concept.

/rant

A legitimate complaint regarding game mechanics from a new player and he didn't rant on and on about his ship or how who-ever are a bunch of mean internet pilots. Sir, I tip my top hat you. Your solution to your complaint is also viable and I wouldn't mind seeing.

S H I T P O S T I N G
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#11 - 2012-04-26 09:58:20 UTC
EVE Rules of engagement: anyone and everyone is a viable target, and should be considered a threat

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.