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Slight buff/nerf to rails

Author
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-25 01:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
I feel rails dont really bring quite enough damage, while they are long range they still don't bring enough damage at the ranges they're used at. Would a nerf to Rail tracking and a buff to rail damage be feasable or are rails balanced as is?


Would railboats be in need of a damage buff?
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#2 - 2012-04-25 01:37:16 UTC
Rails are fine.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-04-25 01:40:03 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
Rails are fine.

Can you elaborate ? I just don't see the appeal of Caldari railboats. Maybe it's just me, but Gallente using rails sacrifice a slight amount of range for decent/actual damage
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2012-04-25 01:48:49 UTC
The point of rails is that they do damage at extreme range and sacrifice DPS to do so. Please provide solid proof that rails do, in fact, need a buff before a buff can be considered. If you have nothing more to go on than "I feel like they don't do enough DPS", then it's all in your head.
Alara IonStorm
#5 - 2012-04-25 02:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Rails do plenty of Damage. Just most of the ships that use them don't have Damage Bonuses and therefor chip paint of the hulls of real ships while they fight other real ships.

Naga has it right. Rokh barely survives by the grace of 8 L Weapons system.

CCP is thinking of giving the rest the Naga Dmg over tank treatment.

Speculation on my part, they'll probably discard a low off the Rokh for mid and give an extra mid to the Ferox with Tier changes and move the utility high to a mid on the Moa when they do ship lines. That along with Fitting changes. Fingers crossed it would be a massive buff to rail ships.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-04-25 02:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
mxzf wrote:
The point of rails is that they do damage at extreme range and sacrifice DPS to do so. Please provide solid proof that rails do, in fact, need a buff before a buff can be considered. If you have nothing more to go on than "I feel like they don't do enough DPS", then it's all in your head.

I just cant see any reason to use them, the damage is too low to use outside of special circumstances. Why bother with long range when you can fit an MWD to your mega and close the gap? Why do Moa and Rokh have such crazy tanks? They're out of range of their enemies anyways. Rails may have great range on Caldari ships but what good is it if they can't dent their enemies.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#7 - 2012-04-25 02:25:35 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Why bother with long range when you can fit an MWD to your mega and close the gap?


Normal engagement ranges in a big 0.0 fight are about 40-80km. You don't close the gap really fast with a MWDing Battleship.

Hint: The Rokh does 540 dps with CN Antimatter at 62+39km.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-04-25 02:30:05 UTC
Not everyone Does 0.0 though
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#9 - 2012-04-25 02:35:54 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Not everyone Does 0.0 though

But that's where people use railgun doctrines.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#10 - 2012-04-25 04:06:00 UTC
Rails need 10% more damage and 20% more range!

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
#11 - 2012-04-25 04:44:14 UTC
Tracking = damage. Don't be an EFT warrior.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#12 - 2012-04-25 05:33:55 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Rails need 10% more damage and 20% more range!

-Liang


and no cap usage all types ammo as well as a webber and a scram ammo, this combined with the dps increase Liang wisely advocates would allow a Rokh to fit 6 rails with antimmater doing same dps as 8 do today (almost) while another turret shoots webbing and another shoots scramming of the target. IDK if it's me but that would definately make them very viable snipers in all environments. Shocked
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-04-25 06:32:50 UTC
Rails do not need more range. The Talos can get an optimal out to ~150-160. The Naga out to ~220. That is more than enough range. They either need a slight damage or tracking buff. They work well on the Talos because it has bonuses to both. The Naga is ok, but it has real tracking problems with spike.

Regardless, another strength of rails, at least in the 10-20 man fleets I fly in, is the rate of fire.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#14 - 2012-04-25 06:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
The only problem is that their primary advantage is range. In cruiser and larger classes, that means 150+ km . Given how easy it is to get a warpin on a target >150km away but still on grid (e.g. have someone with a probe launcher, press a button), trying to snipe from that range is very dangerous.

It's a deeper problem that can't be fixed until ongrid warping is looked at.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-04-25 07:28:49 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:

It's a deeper problem that can't be fixed until ongrid warping is looked at.


This and the curent long range doctrine being alpha focused.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-25 10:03:45 UTC
Jayrendo Karr wrote:
Luba Cibre wrote:
Rails are fine.

Can you elaborate ? I just don't see the appeal of Caldari railboats. Maybe it's just me, but Gallente using rails sacrifice a slight amount of range for decent/actual damage


If you just increase rail damage, then you'll still think the Gallente railboats are better than the Caldari ones.

The problem comes down to individual ships. For example, as rail platforms, the Naga works but the Ferox doesn't, while the Rokh is okay. It comes down to bonuses and ship fittings (and tiers, tbh). So a blanket change is, as usual, inappropriate; you need individual fixes for individual ships.



Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#17 - 2012-04-25 14:02:33 UTC
If all a rail ship needs is an optimal bonus and a damage bonus can someone explain the Eagle?RollLol
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#18 - 2012-04-25 15:06:43 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
If all a rail ship needs is an optimal bonus and a damage bonus can someone explain the Eagle?RollLol


Explained succesfully since 2005: 4xNeutron Blaster II, even better now with 5xNeutron blaster II and buffed to boot... woohoo!
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#19 - 2012-04-25 15:11:47 UTC
It's an awesome blaster boat. We're talking rails though. Do try to keep up agent 007.Lol
Thelron
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-04-25 15:56:15 UTC
2x range bonus does mean you can throw high-damage ammo at people who have to shoot back with lower-damage ammo if you're talking same-class, but it also means you have a minimum effective range that's a lot easier for smaller targets to get under and a lot closer to where larger targets want you. And that high-damage ammo isn't really all that high-damage (rail dps is "generally" potentially higher than arty DPS but often not until a lot of fights are over and you're a lot more reliant upon and a lot less capable of dictating range).

Hence, blasters. Same as why Feroxes often run around with blasters or ACs- you're flying a brick. If you don't throw it in their face you have to hope they're nice and hang out where you want them long enough to die.
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