These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP - Why are we allowing one alliance to control eve?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#101 - 2012-04-24 16:41:00 UTC
Garibaldi Sinatra wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
This has all happened before.

It will all happen again.




Your avatar is the spitting image of Odo from DS9


Smile

Well, since he was a shape shifter that doesn't mean a whole lot.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Anslo
Scope Works
#102 - 2012-04-24 16:41:54 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Shegunna Blow wrote:
Welcome to the Sandbox.

You have two choices here, and the Goons have can NOT decide for you which one to take:

1. Deal with them and continue your standard routine. Accept possible consequences.
2. Move away from goon territory/target areas.

Noone has to go to Jita. No one has to mine when there is a planned, very public event occurring that endangers them.

If you don't want any outside influence in your game, why are you playing an MMO? Educate, adapt and all will be well... oh yeah, and HTFU.

-Shegunna Blow


Standard combat aside, they do grief economically. By holding all the tech moons, they could do whatever they want in terms of economic warfare. If goons one day decide "eff CCP," they could destroy the entire market, across every Empire. It's not just a matter of physically avoiding them. They can attack anyone physically or through the wallet via inflation.


I'm not sure what game you think you're playing. They control those moons through perfectly legal and valid mechanics. You will just hav to accept that New Eden is a scary place full of bad people.


Never once did I say it wasn't valid. I am simply pointing out that the solution is not as simple as "move away from goons and target areas." There was a hole in your logic, and I provided a plug for it. Also, I wouldn't say Eve is full of "bad" people so much as it is full of nonsensical people.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#103 - 2012-04-24 16:42:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Riggs
Anslo wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Anslo wrote:

There's a difference between 1 alliance building up from scratch with no resources and a coalition of multiple well established and well built alliances with SOME resources not controlled by Goons.

Think harder next time.


No, there isn't. The only difference is time spent acquiring the resources. Do you think all those 0.0 alliances just popped into existence with their resources laid out for them? They had to take them from someone.


Yes, this is true. But consider the following;

If I decide to start an alliance right now and spend three years building it up to the point that it could take on the goons right now, in 2012, do you really think that the goons influence and power would stay stagnant and not grow over the same three years?

By 2015, I could have my alliance attack the goons, but they would be 3 years stronger with god knows what and still decimate us. This goes back to some arguments regarding the difference in alliances established long ago versus new start ups and temporal inequality, but that's another story.

Bottom line, there is a difference, and no matter how much a new alliance builds up, the goons would always have that very VERY large head start. To think otherwise is simply ignorant, Mr. Goon-Alt.


Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who disagrees with you is a goon alt. This is my main.

If anything, Goon influence would decline by that time. Remember Mo0, or BoB, or the Privateers? They were once the big dogs, too. You don't hear much about them any more. Politics and power in Eve is based entirely on THE PLAYERS and their actions. That is why Eve is a niche game; it's also why Eve is the only MMO with any real heart to it. The players decide what happens in this game. If you cannot deal with being on the losing side, you're in the wrong universe. Every time you undock your ship, you risk its destruction. Every time you fire a gun, you take countless lives. Every decision you make effects the rest of the game. If you can't accept decisions from others having just as much weight as your own, I don't know what to tell you.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
#104 - 2012-04-24 16:43:12 UTC
What would Star Trek Deep Space 9 have been without the Borg ?

It seems to me that having a grand struggle that creates an enviroment of a guerilla warefare or "underground" exisitance is a super twist in the Sanbox Saga.

This is one of the few games with a HIstory.. not some contrived cheep fantasy writer fiction but a playing out of human imperialistic and revolt struggles. (no real life tradegies should result yet human dynamics such as morale, betrayal, pride, jealousy and paranoia are vital to the shaping of events)

At issue is some sense of insecurity in thinking that you must be equal to win. If the odds are stacked 5 to 1 against you and you win 1 out of 4 times, or more appropiately find a way to thrive in taking advantage of the circumstances on the ground, take pride in that huge accomplishment of beating the odds. You have bested someone if you outpeform them given the odds or handicap that should be menatlly implied in the scoring if they enter the match with superior resources.

In your sandbox, you need to know that any progress in dificult circumstances is far greater than the same progress in easier cirumstance... just like beeting a campaign computer game in harder mode vs easy mode.

.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#105 - 2012-04-24 16:44:56 UTC
Perhaps Goonswarm should be called Wall Street - whenever one does something drastic, it affects the rest of the populous in a trickle down fashion...
Tinnin Sylph
Perkone
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-04-24 16:45:42 UTC
Goons won at Eve. We will continue to control your game until we get bored of your tears*. Deal wiz it.

*Never

Heh.
Anslo
Scope Works
#107 - 2012-04-24 16:46:21 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Anslo wrote:

There's a difference between 1 alliance building up from scratch with no resources and a coalition of multiple well established and well built alliances with SOME resources not controlled by Goons.

Think harder next time.


No, there isn't. The only difference is time spent acquiring the resources. Do you think all those 0.0 alliances just popped into existence with their resources laid out for them? They had to take them from someone.


Yes, this is true. But consider the following;

If I decide to start an alliance right now and spend three years building it up to the point that it could take on the goons right now, in 2012, do you really think that the goons influence and power would stay stagnant and not grow over the same three years?

By 2015, I could have my alliance attack the goons, but they would be 3 years stronger with god knows what and still decimate us. This goes back to some arguments regarding the difference in alliances established long ago versus new start ups and temporal inequality, but that's another story.

Bottom line, there is a difference, and no matter how much a new alliance builds up, the goons would always have that very VERY large head start. To think otherwise is simply ignorant, Mr. Goon-Alt.


Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who disagrees with you is a goon alt. This is my main.

If anything, Goon influence would decline by that time. Remember Mo0, or BoB, or the Privateers? They were once the big dogs, too. You don't hear much about them any more. Politics and power in Eve is based entirely on THE PLAYERS and their actions. That is why Eve is a niche game; it's also why Eve is the only MMO with any real heart to it. The players decide what happens in this game. If you cannot deal with being on the losing side, you're in the wrong universe. Every time you undock your ship, you risk its destruction. Every time you fire a gun, you take countless lives. Every decision you make effects the rest of the game. If you can't accept decisions from others having just as much weight as your own, I don't know what to tell you.


And finally a sensible counter argument. Thank you!

While in a normal situation I agree with you 100%, the Goons are a bit of a special case.

The alliances you mentioned were formed within Eve through blood, sweat and tears. they came, conquered, died, and left. Thus is the cycle. But the issue with goons is that they existed before coming to Eve, and they existed in the thousands. Forums and multiple other games are littered with the likes of them. This is a cause for concern. I don't believe they will simply die out with those kinds of numbers, history, and dedication to ruining everything they can as often as they can.

They exist beyond Eve, and will keep coming. So unless Something Awful shuts down...they won't be part of the extinction cycle anytime soon.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#108 - 2012-04-24 16:48:23 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
This is why goons are violently opposed to anything that could make the game popular: They like being a big fish in a small pond.

They exist in games like WoW, but no one cares about them. Here they're the center of attention.


"Things that would make the game popular" is usually synonymous with "dilutory and pedantic simplification."


Not really.

You'll notice goons lose their mind whenever WiS is mentioned, because they know that will bring many more people.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Lord Fargo
Thirsty Beaver
#109 - 2012-04-24 16:48:28 UTC
evereplicant wrote:
So CCP please can you explain why the whole game is pretty much control by one alliance - Goonswarm?
Anything Mittani gets upset about he sends his bees out to pretty much lay havoc on anything and everything which then effects everyone in eve in every way.

Examples

Jita
Ice Mining
Tech prices.

As the game become so saturated that one alliance has the ability to control eve. I mean well done Mittani you now litterally control eve. But CCP really is this the vision of Eve? Because Ill say it again, eve is no longer sandbox when your sandbox is determined by someone elses sandbox.
This isnt a pop at Goons or Mittani as such they have achieved the end game but there is something seriously wrong when an online game gets to this point and one person/alliance can have such a dramatic effect on everyone in eve...



I'd be angry as you if I had to pay for this terrible game, man I love moon goo.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-04-24 16:48:58 UTC
Garnoo wrote:
you can control CCP too.... you just need to be so awesome (like The Mittani) to gather more than 25 000 gamers.... so stop whining
its not my fault you dont have so many friends!


Don't think the Mittani started SA, mate...

Dodixie > Hek
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#111 - 2012-04-24 16:49:19 UTC
Quote:
What would Star Trek Deep Space 9 have been without the Borg ?


Wait, what?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#112 - 2012-04-24 16:51:04 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
This is why goons are violently opposed to anything that could make the game popular: They like being a big fish in a small pond.

They exist in games like WoW, but no one cares about them. Here they're the center of attention.


"Things that would make the game popular" is usually synonymous with "dilutory and pedantic simplification."


Not really.

You'll notice goons lose their mind whenever WiS is mentioned, because they know that will bring many more people.


No, they, like many players, get pissed when walking in stations gets more attntion than FLYING IN SPACE. Incarna was a disaster, and it wasn't the goons who passed judgement on it.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Tinnin Sylph
Perkone
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-04-24 16:51:57 UTC
Confirming WiS will be the downfall of the Goon empire.

Heh.
Anslo
Scope Works
#114 - 2012-04-24 16:52:44 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
This is why goons are violently opposed to anything that could make the game popular: They like being a big fish in a small pond.

They exist in games like WoW, but no one cares about them. Here they're the center of attention.


"Things that would make the game popular" is usually synonymous with "dilutory and pedantic simplification."


Not really.

You'll notice goons lose their mind whenever WiS is mentioned, because they know that will bring many more people.


No, they, like many players, get pissed when walking in stations gets more attntion than FLYING IN SPACE. Incarna was a disaster, and it wasn't the goons who passed judgement on it.


There is SOME logic to the idea behind that sentiment though, you can't deny that.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#115 - 2012-04-24 16:52:58 UTC
Anslo wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Anslo wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Anslo wrote:

There's a difference between 1 alliance building up from scratch with no resources and a coalition of multiple well established and well built alliances with SOME resources not controlled by Goons.

Think harder next time.


No, there isn't. The only difference is time spent acquiring the resources. Do you think all those 0.0 alliances just popped into existence with their resources laid out for them? They had to take them from someone.


Yes, this is true. But consider the following;

If I decide to start an alliance right now and spend three years building it up to the point that it could take on the goons right now, in 2012, do you really think that the goons influence and power would stay stagnant and not grow over the same three years?

By 2015, I could have my alliance attack the goons, but they would be 3 years stronger with god knows what and still decimate us. This goes back to some arguments regarding the difference in alliances established long ago versus new start ups and temporal inequality, but that's another story.

Bottom line, there is a difference, and no matter how much a new alliance builds up, the goons would always have that very VERY large head start. To think otherwise is simply ignorant, Mr. Goon-Alt.


Contrary to popular belief, not everyone who disagrees with you is a goon alt. This is my main.

If anything, Goon influence would decline by that time. Remember Mo0, or BoB, or the Privateers? They were once the big dogs, too. You don't hear much about them any more. Politics and power in Eve is based entirely on THE PLAYERS and their actions. That is why Eve is a niche game; it's also why Eve is the only MMO with any real heart to it. The players decide what happens in this game. If you cannot deal with being on the losing side, you're in the wrong universe. Every time you undock your ship, you risk its destruction. Every time you fire a gun, you take countless lives. Every decision you make effects the rest of the game. If you can't accept decisions from others having just as much weight as your own, I don't know what to tell you.


And finally a sensible counter argument. Thank you!

While in a normal situation I agree with you 100%, the Goons are a bit of a special case.

The alliances you mentioned were formed within Eve through blood, sweat and tears. they came, conquered, died, and left. Thus is the cycle. But the issue with goons is that they existed before coming to Eve, and they existed in the thousands. Forums and multiple other games are littered with the likes of them. This is a cause for concern. I don't believe they will simply die out with those kinds of numbers, history, and dedication to ruining everything they can as often as they can.

They exist beyond Eve, and will keep coming. So unless Something Awful shuts down...they won't be part of the extinction cycle anytime soon.


So, if I were to bring my gun club to Eve or a book club rose to power they'd have to be artificially limited on how successful they could be because they already know each other outside the game? Special cases have another word they tend to go by: Precendents. You're just making excuses for interrupting the natural flow of gameplay by saying 'He started it!'

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2012-04-24 16:54:56 UTC
Anslo wrote:



No difference at all.

We have no monopoly over anything that is a obstacle to anyone to accomplish it. Whats is it we have monopoly over anyway? Last time I checked there was great alliances all over new eden, all flying big, expensive **** and kicking eachother asses .

The only true ressource than might be really scarce that comes to my mind is leadership.

You can mobilize an entire galaxy if you have leadership, you dont need a powerful fleet of your own, just get people to fight for your banner. Hell, you dont even need to play the game to command.

htfu.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
trademeyourmoneys
billionaire boyz club
#117 - 2012-04-24 16:55:06 UTC
good luck forming a alliance that can attack a 75,000 player coalition thats being drip fed tech.

Only way i can see to cause havoc to goons if for everyone to leave 0.0 until goons get bored.
Atheoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2012-04-24 16:56:26 UTC
I just resubbed after long hiatus and this is one of the first posts I see.

I found it hilarious, I remember the same exact posts... almost verbatem, about BoB. Now I don't see Bob anymore... I assume they lost sometime during my hiatus.
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#119 - 2012-04-24 16:58:08 UTC
Atheoss wrote:
I just resubbed after long hiatus and this is one of the first posts I see.

I found it hilarious, I remember the same exact posts... almost verbatem, about BoB. Now I don't see Bob anymore... I assume they lost sometime during my hiatus.


Goons finally took them down. Lol

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#120 - 2012-04-24 16:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Your options:


1: Actively avoid conflict with the Goons at all cost, relocate if necessary, hope someone else fixes things more to your liking.

2: Start your own organization (if you haven't already) with it's sole focus being to attract like minded people and eventually stop them yourself.

3: Join an already existing Alliance in contention with the Goons, one that best fits your preferences, and assist that force in stopping the Goons.

4: Join the Something Aweful forums, follow the procedures, and attempt to become a Goon yourself.

5: Admit defeat and quit EVE.

6: Simply ignore the situation until that is no longer an option or the situation resolves itself.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.