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Crime & Punishment

 
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Noob Questions: High Sec Miner ganking.
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Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-04-24 07:26:31 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:

“I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.”

― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Think about that


Applying real life quotes to a spaceship game. Way to go Roll
Eryn Velasquez
#82 - 2012-04-24 07:30:56 UTC
Sutskop wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:

“I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.”

― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Think about that


Applying real life quotes to a spaceship game. Way to go Roll


Applying real life quotes to real people playing spaceship games.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-04-24 07:39:49 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Sutskop wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:

“I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.”

― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Think about that


Applying real life quotes to a spaceship game. Way to go Roll


Applying real life quotes to real people playing spaceship games.


Ok, I bite. So you're saying that miners should not be forced to tank their damn ships? This is the only way that quote might make some sense in this context imho. If not, please elaborate, for I have no balls nor brains.
Irisandra T'Lavel
#84 - 2012-04-24 11:42:00 UTC
I just want to see CCP be the ultimate meta troll...do something like stop all ganking for like 6 or 9 months, then make it a complete open free for all, but only for people that didn't quit in those months. Of course without announcing their intentions ahead of time.
Eryn Velasquez
#85 - 2012-04-24 12:08:42 UTC
Sutskop wrote:

Ok, I bite. So you're saying that miners should not be forced to tank their damn ships? This is the only way that quote might make some sense in this context imho. If not, please elaborate, for I have no balls nor brains.


I think it's not as simple. Destroyers got their buff, which was necessary because they were too weak in comparison with frigs and/or even cruisers. Then the T3-battlecruiser hit the field, somewhat cheap killingmachines, able to gank multiple mining ships in one attack.
Those two facts were leading to an increase in killed miningships.

Now the question is, was this planed this way by CCP, or a somewhat unintended sideeffect.

When it was planned, okay, it's their decision. If it was an unintended effect, why not buff the structure of these exhumers and mining barges? Today they are paperships, even when they're tanked to the max, what significantly decreases the mining yield.

They should get some structure hitpoints, just to reflect they are heavy industry working machines, and not wooden wheelbarrows.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#86 - 2012-04-24 12:19:55 UTC
Its mostly a bunch of fat wussies who are afraid of real pvp so they pick on ships that can't fight back. My how brave they are. But it has always gone on, when the game launched I remember the MoO corp ganking anyone everywhere nonstop.
Arkturus McFadden
Anukar
#87 - 2012-04-24 13:14:44 UTC
Bunnie Hop wrote:
Its mostly a bunch of fat wussies who are afraid of real pvp so they pick on ships that can't fight back. My how brave they are. But it has always gone on, when the game launched I remember the MoO corp ganking anyone everywhere nonstop.



You bring up an interesting point though with the MoO corp. I read they got the bad end of a very mean banhammer from CCP for doing exactly what you said above. So what makes this any different? Will CCP really have to ban these folks?

It's all sort of unfortunate really if it does indeed come to that..
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#88 - 2012-04-24 13:59:51 UTC
Ustrello wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
So much mad from the carebears



Which ones, Industrial or PvP ?


That's cute that you think pvpers are carebears


Cute does not disqualify something from being true as well. Next...................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#89 - 2012-04-24 14:01:40 UTC
Ustrello wrote:
Five Thirty wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
That's cute that you think pvpers are carebears


The ones ganking miners in high security space are most definitely carebears.

Shooting a mining ship is even LESS dangerous than shooting an NPC rat.

LOL @ PVP IS ALL ABOUT RISK!


So losing the gank ship, possibly messing up and not killing the mining barge loss of sec status aren't risk?

Edit sniper



You have lost only around 60,000,000, whereas had you succeeded, Mr. Hunky Hulk-Driver would have lost around 300,000,000 +.

Talk to me about who is being risky here. Next........................

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#90 - 2012-04-24 14:03:05 UTC
Ustrello wrote:


Npc alt poster, opinion doesn't count



Ah....a new one of this 'forum-Type'.......(sighs)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#91 - 2012-04-24 14:03:51 UTC
Ustrello wrote:
Still doesn't mean your opinion counts



Another VACUOUS meaningless post....................this may need to be reported for 'not contributing'.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#92 - 2012-04-24 14:06:15 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:

TL;DR: Miners lost their backbone and fled to NPC corps / corps that dock up during wars, PVPers suicide gank because that's the only way to get them.



And what, 'band together' and defend mining gangs with 12 Battleships ? Get Real and Get A Life. Does not work. The Hulks and Macks have NO TANK. There is no defense. You are not smart........

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#93 - 2012-04-24 14:08:29 UTC
Sutskop wrote:
Eryn Velasquez wrote:

“I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.”

― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Think about that


Applying real life quotes to a spaceship game. Way to go Roll


U mad Bro ? (sighs at all the horrific memes)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#94 - 2012-04-24 14:09:44 UTC
Sutskop wrote:


Ok, I bite. So you're saying that miners should not be forced to tank their damn ships? .


YOU CAN NOT TANK THOSE SHIPS TO SURVIVABILITY.

GET IT THROUGH THE THICK HEAD (knock, knock)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Arkturus McFadden
Anukar
#95 - 2012-04-24 14:10:17 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
FeralShadow wrote:

TL;DR: Miners lost their backbone and fled to NPC corps / corps that dock up during wars, PVPers suicide gank because that's the only way to get them.



And what, 'band together' and defend mining gangs with 12 Battleships ? Get Real and Get A Life. Does not work. The Hulks and Macks have NO TANK. There is no defense. You are not smart........


Unfortunately, this is true. It wouldn't matter if hulks and macks had support.. alpha gankers would just completely ignore the security and hit the hulks..

At that, in recent days I've also learned remote repping hulks and macks STILL wouldn't save them from ganks.. truly isn't any defense..
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#96 - 2012-04-24 14:14:50 UTC
Thank the Gods there are a million things to do besides mine in the game. And mission mining an dGrav sites are 'relatively' safe anyway. There are all sorts of workarounds for H'geddon.

I'll pop a Bot-Mack any day, but during H'geddon "Bring tears by Giving No tears". Smile

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Sutha Moliko
Giza'Msafara
#97 - 2012-04-24 15:19:46 UTC
I believe that many posters and readers have the same feeling and the same question you have. The war between carebears and gankbears (like this term) rages on torum. It became more obvious with Incursion. Some choose to voice their choice, you will identify them quite easily.
But the trails of this war cannot realy be seen in-game except if you are specifically looking for it.

Ganking exist for long. Go to Niarja, Uedama. Watch. You will be amazed how suicide ganker can make money with this activity. What is new is the perception we have of this "forum war". What you can experiment in-game is different. You will feel the difference when Hulkageddon will happen. Another exemple of event that had consequence and everyone experimented was the blocus initiated by Goons on blue Ice.

Hulkageddon is an event. Something everyone will experiment in game. You will see that most players enjoy it, even miners that will find an occasion to try something else in game or even make an alt to participate.

The reality In EvE is that you can PvP everywhere even on the forum. The favorite weapon on forum is rhetoric (trolling is often a good start. Smile
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#98 - 2012-04-24 17:12:41 UTC
Arkturus McFadden wrote:
Hey folks, just a quick question about the origins of this popular "trend" of sorts


Where did this originate from? Did it begin with killing mining bots and eventually spiraled down to killing any and all (if the opportunity arose) miners in high sec

Also, why is this done? for amusement? From what I understand of EVE, don't miners make mineral prices go down? Which then leads to more PVP because we all can get ships

Thanks for the replies.



In May 2003, at the gates from HULM, m0o was ganking.
Then, in March 2004, Zombie Corp took on concorde and everything else that moved through the Yulai gates (the JITA of 2004).

Concorde was not set up to handle remote rep, and remote-repping did not give agro. They killed just about everything, but ended up banned.

Then there was TANK CEO.
He found out that once you reached TRUE -10, there was no sec-loss when shooting someone, so he just ganked like a mad man (until banned of patched, can not remember)

Then there was TANK CEO figuring out that Concorde Response time in a true 1.0 sec system was as slow as a 0.5 system, hehe, that caused a few dead people.

Not even going to mention the swarms of kestrels with 4 Cruise Missiles.....
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#99 - 2012-04-24 18:01:42 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Misanth wrote:

So if the miner is not a chimp, why is he wasting his time mining noob ore in the noob start area? If he decides to use a ship too-powerful-for-the-designated area, and he decides to play EVE which involved ganking, griefing etc, why not face the consequences of his own lazy actions?


You really expect i'm gonna explain this to you?

As the gankers, the miners too search for easy money, perhaps listening to music while chilling in the belt, chatting with friends while mining. Not all players are 100% concentrated on their actions in game, especially when they are in a so called high security environment. That's the difference between them and the nerdy ganking-kids.

Meanwhile, some of these high-sec areas are more dangerous than low-sec or null-sec. And this is the imbalance, why many of them complain.

I don't agree with you, that it became harder to gank mission runners on behalf of game changes, they simply adapted and learned - not to buy the damsel back and take it out the can from the "friendly" ransomer, disable automatic locking, passive drones and many things more.



If Null sec is safer, why don't they move there and mine the sweet sweet ABC ores in all that safety?

Make 2-3x as much ISK, safer. Sounds like a no-brainer.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#100 - 2012-04-24 18:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Arkturus McFadden wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
FeralShadow wrote:

TL;DR: Miners lost their backbone and fled to NPC corps / corps that dock up during wars, PVPers suicide gank because that's the only way to get them.



And what, 'band together' and defend mining gangs with 12 Battleships ? Get Real and Get A Life. Does not work. The Hulks and Macks have NO TANK. There is no defense. You are not smart........


Unfortunately, this is true. It wouldn't matter if hulks and macks had support.. alpha gankers would just completely ignore the security and hit the hulks..

At that, in recent days I've also learned remote repping hulks and macks STILL wouldn't save them from ganks.. truly isn't any defense..



That depends. If the Hulk is properly tanked (32k EHP is quite doable thank you) then a single Hulk can easily endure two tornado alphas and be repped right back up by the time those tornadoes are ready to fire again.

There is a dishonest rhetorical trick called conflation, and it's used frequently in these forum campaigns to nerf PvP. Basically if a team of gankers have decided that they want a specific Hulk dead, then yes, they can do that and it will be extremely difficult to stop them. But the vast majority of ganks are 1-2 people looking for casual targets of opportunity, and it's VERY possible to protect oneself from those. With little more than a Damage Control Unit and an Invuln II, you can make yourself invulnerable to destroyers and give yourself enough EHP to make yourself reppable from the damage from any indivudual ganker.

But certain people conflate the difficulty of protecting oneself vs an organised team looking to specifically gank you personally with the frequency of casual solo gank attempts. They pretend that the rare organised hits are as common as the casual opportunistic ones.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016