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The Thing That is Wrong With Eve
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scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-04-24 07:17:19 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
Lapine Davion wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
Jackal Datapaw wrote:
Then you should of made that a little more clear on your very first post! :D


It was in CAPS how much clearer can you get?

*still haven't found PI toon*


Make one. It takes a month. You will spend more paying the transfer fees for a PI alt than the character would be worth.


need logi pilot too for incursions


Well which one do you want? Logi or PI?

Edit: Power of Two, man. Use it.


Both and already have... to many times to count.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#82 - 2012-04-24 07:18:12 UTC
Well then stop derailing your own thread. I swear to god you are the worst goon troll alt.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#83 - 2012-04-24 07:40:32 UTC
I am not even going to bother to rephrase my words in another thread.
Just a simple copy paste job is more than enough for you.

As soon as freedom get's abused to do and say just anything with the intent to purely hurt, disgust or upset people the very same freedom is holding other people's freedom hostage.

And I have to agree, as long as people don't understand that with freedom also comes responcebility, that they should be controlled in their actions.
People always get off on their socalled right to freedom, which is anchored in their constitution, basic law or general states decleration.
But they hardly ever look at the other passage where it says that people also have to right to live their own lives in pursuit of happyness.
They tend to agree on the fact that their freedom, to do or say whatever they want, is of greater importance than other people's right to personal happyness. There is no need to take responcebility for their own actions or words. Regardless if they are way over the line.
But those people also tend to be the biggest uproars as soon as they get the same treatment back and someone else "expressing their freedom" expresses in such a way they themselves get limited.

Go figure.
Josef Djugashvilis
#84 - 2012-04-24 07:48:45 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Free Speech

It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.

Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?

If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.

That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.

P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok



You are obviously very young, the good news is it doesn't last long, then you might stop posting just to see your name in the forums.

This is not a signature.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#85 - 2012-04-24 08:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
scooter Kondur wrote:
I would suggest you reread the wiki and maybe take sometime to digest it and get a grasp for the bigger picture.
I would suggest you go beyond the wiki and learn what the concept actually means.

Quote:
Let's live in your world where no one is allowed any medium for dissent and they are never heard.
Good thing that I never said any such thing then and that this is not what's going on here. Nice straw man, though.

Quote:
CCP has a duty to ensure that all voices are heard just like everyone else.
No, they don't. They have a duty to uphold the contract that we all signed when joining this game and decided to use these forums. As it happens, that contract does not include any kind of duty to let anyone's voice be heard, but they might on occasion be nice enough to let it happen anyway. In fact, CCP has a duty to shut down the voices of those who cannot follow the rules the agreed on, and the fantastic thing is that doing so does in no way infringe on anyone's right to free speech. Fancy that!

Quote:
How would you feel if no one listened?
I know that feeling very well since it's apparent that you aren't listening. The simple fact remains: CCP is not infringing on your freedom of speech, and freedom of speech does not apply to EVE. You have no right to free speech on a private forum. Also, you shouldn't have that right, because that would put CCP in an untenable situation where they can no longer run their business and provide the service we're actually paying for. You are confusing two vastly different notions: the right to free speech (which CCP isn't, and in fact can't take away from you), and the right to be heard (which doesn't actually exist).

Your entire complaint relies on your assumption that you have a right to be rebroadcast, but the fundamental problem with this is that no such right exist, and the funny thing is that it's free speech that ensures that you don't have this right.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#86 - 2012-04-24 08:18:31 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
The Thing That is Wrong With Eve


Not enough ponies!
scooter Kondur
Doomheim
#87 - 2012-04-24 08:18:48 UTC
[quote=

Your entire complaint relies on your assumption that you have a right to be rebroadcast, but the fundamental problem with this is that no such right exist, and the funny thing is that it's free speech that ensures that you don't have this right.[/quote]

Yes they do.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#88 - 2012-04-24 08:23:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Hey OP, are you one of those a-holes IRL who spews anti(-insert favourite scapegoat/target here)-ism IRL, and then when anyone calls you on your bullshit, you cry that they're infringing on your right to free speech?

Because you totally sound like one.

E:

Do you live in A(**hole)lberta by any chance? Because this putrescent, socially-stunted cesspit is packed to the rafters with that type Ugh

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#89 - 2012-04-24 08:25:07 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Yes they do.
Nope.
You have a right to be able to speak, that is all. This right is not being taken away.

You do not have the right to force others to speak for you — quite the opposite: they have the right to only speak for themselves.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#90 - 2012-04-24 08:34:11 UTC
Oh scooter, scooter, you little cross-eyed mongrel Big smile

You're something special, you should really start blogging!

.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-04-24 09:09:59 UTC
What happened to your illiterate persona? I liked that better.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2012-04-24 10:02:09 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Hey OP, are you one of those a-holes IRL who spews anti(-insert favourite scapegoat/target here)-ism IRL, and then when anyone calls you on your bullshit, you cry that they're infringing on your right to free speech?

Because you totally sound like one.

E:

Do you live in A(**hole)lberta by any chance? Because this putrescent, socially-stunted cesspit is packed to the rafters with that type Ugh


Is that a rhetorical question? P

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Pip x2
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-04-24 10:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pip x2
cba to read all the replies, but in case no one mentioned it yet;
ITT: Whining about whining
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-04-24 11:55:38 UTC
I'm part of the conversation
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-04-24 12:09:23 UTC
Tippia wrote:
scooter Kondur wrote:
CCP can not institute a series of rules that are contrary to the laws by which it is governed itself.
Yes they can.

More to the point, though, since you missed the key part: they're not a government. Consequently, they are not governed by the law that provides you with free speech, so even if they were limited the way you wished they were, they still wouldn't be constrained by the laws in question.

Again, the only right you have around here is the right to close your account.


Agreed - but to nitpick - government does not 'give you' free speech. They can only take it away. Free speech is natural.

Scooter is eaither a troll or does not understand what free speech really is.

In most western democracies 'free speech' is goverenment's promise to not take this away from it's citizens - it does not EVER mean you can say whatever you want without consequences - only that they will not interfere with you saying it in the first place.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2012-04-24 12:21:55 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Agreed - but to nitpick - government does not 'give you' free speech. They can only take it away. Free speech is natural.
Fair enough. “Preserve” would have been a better word.

Quote:
Scooter is eaither a troll or does not understand what free speech really is.
At this point, my guess is both, but my policy is that for every troll expressing some form of idiocy, there are 10 actual idiots who truly and honestly believe the same thing, so it's easier to just treat them all the same and actually have a chance of reaching those 10 people.

Quote:
In most western democracies 'free speech' is goverenment's promise to not take this away from it's citizens - it does not EVER mean you can say whatever you want without consequences - only that they will not interfere with you saying it in the first place.
…and let's stress that one key word once more: the government. It is not an applicable concept to entities that hold no legislative, judiciary or executive power (e.g. private companies).
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-04-24 12:27:27 UTC
Quote:
At this point, my guess is both, but my policy is that for every troll expressing some form of idiocy, there are 10 actual idiots who truly and honestly believe the same thing, so it's easier to just treat them all the same and actually have a chance of reaching those 10 people.


haha, true enough. You have more patience that I do.

Quote:
and let's stress that one key word once more: the government. It is not an applicable concept to entities that hold no legislative, judiciary or executive power (e.g. private companies).


Correct. Basically I try to keep it simple. My right to swing my arms wildly ends at the end of another person's nose.
Veronica Kerrigan
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-04-24 14:49:55 UTC
scooter Kondur wrote:
Free Speech

It seems to me that as of late that there are a lot of whiners complaining about everything and anyone that doesn't fit the norm. Much more then usual.

Sorry to say guys it is the different people that make Eve special. If you want to continue to ruin your game keep it up. People are always complaining about how CCP caters to the carebears (or whatever group) and how the game is continuously being dumbed down. This, lets call it pussification, of the game needs to stop. The constant rule changing, rule bending and silencing of individuals to appease the vocal minority of whiners needs to stop. I really see this as becoming a serious issue because of the partnership between Sony and CCP for Dust. Is Sony going to further strongarm CCP into adopting their PR policies?

If you can't take a joke, a troll or off the cuff remark then you need to HTFU.

That being said I will viciously troll you if you spew *** hate or any hate in my local but I will defend your right to your own views as well.

P.S. I was mad, had a cookie and now I'm ok


Believe it or not, the forums used to be like this all the time, basically as far back as tyrannis when I started playing, if not further. People were strangely optimistic after crucible, but that seems to be wearing off.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#99 - 2012-04-24 15:10:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
My policy is that for every troll expressing some form of idiocy, there are 10 actual idiots who truly and honestly believe the same thing, so it's easier to just treat them all the same and actually have a chance of reaching those 10 people.

(...)

and let's stress that one key word once more: the government. It is not an applicable concept to entities that hold no legislative, judiciary or executive power (e.g. private companies).

And one of the issues with these forums in particular is that the primary reason most companies choose to exercise their right to silence customers, is to protect the service provided to other customers, especially in online games where player interaction plays such a large part.

Now I am a fan of low moderation in game, due to the style and scope of Eve this makes sense, but unfortunately the forums are of limited capacity. Unlike in Eve, which has hundreds of systems and tens of thousands of players online at a time, we have only a page or two of active threads in which to communicate ideas on the forums.

This means, unlike in game, on the forums we are vulnerable to being overwhelmed by idiots like scooter. When I log on to the Eve forums and see that 50% of posts are repeat posts on the same old subjects, interwoven with irreverent off topic crap posted by players like scooter, it makes me wish the moderators would actually step in and do something.

We have a ToS for a reason, but none of the rules appear to be upheld 90% of the time:

Quote:
Ranting is prohibited
A rant is a long-winded, redundant post, often filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.

Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting the players. Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not contribute to the sense of community we want for our forums.

Immediate banning from the forum can result from any of the following:
The posting of pornography; discriminatory remarks which are sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive; excessive obscene or vulgar language; posts which discuss or illustrate illegal activity; providing links to sites that contain any of the aforementioned.

Spamming, bumping and pyramid quoting are prohibited.
Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or text or nonsensical posts that have no substance and are often designed to annoy other forum users. This includes “first” and “go back to 'another game'” posts. Bumping posts in order to keep them near the top of the list is also prohibited. Petitions or "signed" posts are a version of bumping and likewise are not permitted. Pyramid quoting is a response to a forum thread that contains the quotes of four or more previous posters, sometimes with additional spaces added unnecessarily. Posts of this nature are not conducive to community spirit and are unwelcome.

Redundant threads will be deleted.
As a courtesy to others before beginning a new thread, please look to see if an active thread on that topic has already been established. If so, place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forum needlessly and many good ideas may be lost. Keep discussions about one topic to one thread only.

All posts must be about or related to Eve Online.
Posts about other games or game companies, products or services not related to Eve are not permitted.

Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful, provided that it is presented in a civil, factual manner. Tell us what you don't like and why and how you feel it could be improved. Posts that are not constructive, insulting or rude may be deleted, no matter how valid the ideas behind them may be.

Off-topic posting is not allowed.
Off-topic posts are not prohibited but should be posted within reason. Excessive off-topic posts that derail a thread may result in the thread being locked.


I don't mind a little leniency, but CCP should start banning users that repeatedly and intentionally break all these rules. When we have certain players creating two or three useless off topic threads a day, purely for the purpose of trolling, it makes these forums look absolutely terrible.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#100 - 2012-04-24 15:20:25 UTC
What I find amusing here is that Freedom cant be given or taken away, you only have enforcers with bigger guns and the amazing power of Pareto (or lack of it) , where you take into the equation the fact you want to keep living away or under the influence of people with bigger guns, freedom then evolves into a misnomer to represent your strength compared to theirs.

Power is a perceived concept, only actions truly define it.

Pie, apple pie is awesome, and no one can take that away from me, only brain damage or tissue damage that affects me physically can ever take it away from me, and from that, then you can only blame externalities that are simply beyond your control or anyone else.

ALSO no, if game is getting softer is not because of what you imply, but the total opposite. Been here long enough to realize that the only power we have IN EVE is the mass MONETARY weight of shooting the Jita Statue by stopping our subs and waiting for account to lapse.

If you fear CCP, or SONY or whatever boogeyman you create, then you forgot a fundamental truth, IT IS CCP who has to fear US.

The CSM, the Fanfest, the drama, the beer , everything is an illusion, there only exists the power and the ability of your effort to cut the cash flow into their coffers. Thats how the world is dominated, thats how you can dominate CCP.

If you are one, look for more, and not here. Do a real change if you want, but please, STOP posting this kind of threads, they only show you as a lame half-troll half hobbit or a very real Willie Wonka pic meme target.

EVOLVE!

Tykkthxnbai

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco