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Lasers, do they suck ****? Are they in the same category as blasters before their buff?
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Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2012-04-22 23:10:05 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Even with an EM hardener, most ships still end up with a significant weakness to EM/Thermal damage (with the obvious exception of T2 Minmatar ships). And... if lasers really sucked so hard, no one would be afraid of them and try to fill the resist hole.

I'm really in shock that this thread has gone on for 7 freakin' pages.


Yeap, everyone plugs their EM hole ONLY because of lazorz and not because of EMP/EM missiles.


Why would anyone fire EM missiles in PvP? The only good commonly-encountered missile boats currently have bonuses only to Kinetic missiles.



Confirming that firing kinetic missiles against T2/T3 Caldari/Gallente targets is pretty smart.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2012-04-23 02:02:15 UTC
ah yes, the balance comes full circle.

after this thread we will have another thread in 2 years saying that "OMFG PROJECTILES SUCK PIG BALLS!" and so they are (over)boosted.

after that, 2 years past it and people will finally have their hybrids boosted, again, after much whinage about them being "not good enough lol".




and then people will complain about laz0rz because they suck, and they get boosted.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#143 - 2012-04-23 02:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Grimpak wrote:
ah yes, the balance comes full circle.

after this thread we will have another thread in 2 years saying that "OMFG PROJECTILES SUCK PIG BALLS!" and so they are (over)boosted.

after that, 2 years past it and people will finally have their hybrids boosted, again, after much whinage about them being "not good enough lol".




and then people will complain about laz0rz because they suck, and they get boosted.


I'm sure that this answer struck you as just brilliant, two years ago, when projectiles had only been the flavor of two years, but it's time to think of a new automatic response to a complaint about them.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2012-04-23 02:35:41 UTC
Kuehnelt wrote:
Grimpak wrote:
ah yes, the balance comes full circle.

after this thread we will have another thread in 2 years saying that "OMFG PROJECTILES SUCK PIG BALLS!" and so they are (over)boosted.

after that, 2 years past it and people will finally have their hybrids boosted, again, after much whinage about them being "not good enough lol".




and then people will complain about laz0rz because they suck, and they get boosted.


I'm sure that this answer struck you as just brilliant, two years ago, when projectiles had only been the flavor of two years, but it's time to think of a new automatic response to a complaint about them.

eh, can't be arsed.Straight

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#145 - 2012-04-23 06:17:34 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Harb has fitting problems, a Cane can fit, a 1600mm plate, 425s, medium neut, dual web (cause it doesn't need a cap booster), 2 gyros and it'll have better everything (speed, dps, tracking, ability to neut, resistance to neuts from capless weapons, another web so better range control) and 2k less EHP and slightly worse damage projection


Wouldn't perform well against Curse.

But of course you can keep broadcasting for cap all the time. Lol
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2012-04-23 15:48:42 UTC
SidtheKid100 wrote:
Don't some of the gunnery certificates claim that lasers have "good tracking" while projectile turrets are "inaccurate".
I think that's what irks me the most.
I mean, lasers have huge cap requirements, they're locked into 2 dmg types unlike projectiles, and they don't have the overpowering dps of hybrids. Can't they at least get the best tracking?


ya, if any turrent should have great tracking, it should be lasers
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2012-04-23 16:14:19 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Feel free to post anything apart from a Tengu that can solo C4-C5 sites. Roll


Carrier?


Lasers are bad because a Legion isn't as good at PVE as a carrier.

Yup, calling troll on this one.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#148 - 2012-04-23 16:21:07 UTC
Roosterton wrote:
Lasers are bad because a Legion isn't as good at PVE as a carrier.

Yup, calling troll on this one.


In case you didn't know only subcapital ship that can solo C4 and C5 sites is Tengu.

So if you can do it in Legion, could you please provide link to fit so we mortals can do it too.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2012-04-24 01:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Quote:
In case you didn't know only subcapital ship that can solo C4 and C5 sites is Tengu.


That was sort of the point. You said "feel free to post a Legion that can solo C4's/C5's." I said "feel free to post anything other than a Tengu that can solo C4's/C5's," making the point that this isn't the Legion's problem, it's just that the Tengu is godly at PVE. And now you just agreed with me, so I guess I'm right. Unless you're seriously trying to insinuate that lasers are bad because Legions can't solo C4's/C5's while carriers can.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2012-04-24 05:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Unfortunately 2bil Tengu isn't solution.

First of all it would take 70 days for me to be able to sit in that thing.
I would have to sell everything so I could get mods for that thing.
It has subpar DPS.
Sakari Orisi
Doomheim
#151 - 2012-04-24 06:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sakari Orisi
Roosterton wrote:
Quote:
In case you didn't know only subcapital ship that can solo C4 and C5 sites is Tengu.


That was sort of the point. You said "feel free to post a Legion that can solo C4's/C5's." I said "feel free to post anything other than a Tengu that can solo C4's/C5's," making the point that this isn't the Legion's problem, it's just that the Tengu is godly at PVE. And now you just agreed with me, so I guess I'm right. Unless you're seriously trying to insinuate that lasers are bad because Legions can't solo C4's/C5's while carriers can.


Just to prove a point, capstable fit (under sleeper neuts), enough tank; enough dps and acceptable range, as well as a web to shoot down sleeper frigs on its own:

EDIT: and its not any more expensive than a solo C4-5 tengu would be

[Legion, WH]

Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

The evefit project Pyfa thread Phobos thread
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#152 - 2012-04-24 07:15:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Sakari Orisi wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Quote:
In case you didn't know only subcapital ship that can solo C4 and C5 sites is Tengu.


That was sort of the point. You said "feel free to post a Legion that can solo C4's/C5's." I said "feel free to post anything other than a Tengu that can solo C4's/C5's," making the point that this isn't the Legion's problem, it's just that the Tengu is godly at PVE. And now you just agreed with me, so I guess I'm right. Unless you're seriously trying to insinuate that lasers are bad because Legions can't solo C4's/C5's while carriers can.


Just to prove a point, capstable fit (under sleeper neuts), enough tank; enough dps and acceptable range, as well as a web to shoot down sleeper frigs on its own:

EDIT: and its not any more expensive than a solo C4-5 tengu would be

[Legion, WH]

Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Not enough tank for C4s. Quite expensive loss in C5s.
Sakari Orisi
Doomheim
#153 - 2012-04-24 07:21:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Sakari Orisi
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Sakari Orisi wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Quote:
In case you didn't know only subcapital ship that can solo C4 and C5 sites is Tengu.


That was sort of the point. You said "feel free to post a Legion that can solo C4's/C5's." I said "feel free to post anything other than a Tengu that can solo C4's/C5's," making the point that this isn't the Legion's problem, it's just that the Tengu is godly at PVE. And now you just agreed with me, so I guess I'm right. Unless you're seriously trying to insinuate that lasers are bad because Legions can't solo C4's/C5's while carriers can.


Just to prove a point, capstable fit (under sleeper neuts), enough tank; enough dps and acceptable range, as well as a web to shoot down sleeper frigs on its own:

EDIT: and its not any more expensive than a solo C4-5 tengu would be

[Legion, WH]

Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Stasis Webifier II
10MN Afterburner II

Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Not enough tank for C4s. Quite expensive loss in C5s.


I'll tell the sleepers that next time I kill them

(There's ofcourse no one size fits it all fit, if you need more tank for C4s, fit an extra hardener instead of the tracking enhancer and remove a cap recharger for a tracking computer, as there's less neuting in C4s)

The evefit project Pyfa thread Phobos thread
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#154 - 2012-04-24 07:26:09 UTC
Sakari Orisi wrote:
I'll tell the sleepers that next time I kill them

(There's ofcourse no one size fits it all fit, if you need more tank for C4s, fit an extra hardener instead of the tracking enhancer and remove a cap recharger for a tracking computer, as there's less neuting in C4s)


C4 requires ~700 dps cap stable omnitank for cruisers while moving. That Legion fit has ~560.
Sakari Orisi
Doomheim
#155 - 2012-04-24 07:33:36 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Sakari Orisi wrote:
I'll tell the sleepers that next time I kill them

(There's ofcourse no one size fits it all fit, if you need more tank for C4s, fit an extra hardener instead of the tracking enhancer and remove a cap recharger for a tracking computer, as there's less neuting in C4s)


C4 requires ~700 dps cap stable omnitank for cruisers while moving. That Legion fit has ~560.


I'm not sure how you count, but the fit I posted has 600dps omni tank and if you add an extra T2 hardener instead of the tracking enhancer it has 696 dps cap stable omni tank (close enough ? :>)

The evefit project Pyfa thread Phobos thread
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-04-24 07:38:38 UTC
Sakari Orisi wrote:
I'm not sure how you count, but the fit I posted has 600dps omni tank and if you add an extra T2 hardener instead of the tracking enhancer it has 696 dps cap stable omni tank (close enough ? :>)


Maybe it can do C4s after all. But it would be slower than Tengu.

Still nowhere near enough for C5s.
Sakari Orisi
Doomheim
#157 - 2012-04-24 07:40:31 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Sakari Orisi wrote:
I'm not sure how you count, but the fit I posted has 600dps omni tank and if you add an extra T2 hardener instead of the tracking enhancer it has 696 dps cap stable omni tank (close enough ? :>)


Maybe it can do C4s after all. But it would be slower than Tengu.

Still nowhere near enough for C5s.


I do them regularly, so I'm afraid you're wrong on that one too. Yes, admittedly, its a bit slower than a tengu though, but it beats training for months in missiles when you have 0 missile SP and 10mil gunnery SP.

The evefit project Pyfa thread Phobos thread
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#158 - 2012-04-24 07:45:31 UTC
Sakari Orisi wrote:
I do them regularly, so I'm afraid you're wrong on that one too. Yes, admittedly, its a bit slower than a tengu though, but it beats training for months in missiles when you have 0 missile SP and 10mil gunnery SP.


C5s? Ok, now I want to see a video before I believe that.
Sakari Orisi
Doomheim
#159 - 2012-04-24 07:53:56 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Sakari Orisi wrote:
I do them regularly, so I'm afraid you're wrong on that one too. Yes, admittedly, its a bit slower than a tengu though, but it beats training for months in missiles when you have 0 missile SP and 10mil gunnery SP.


C5s? Ok, now I want to see a video before I believe that.


Can be provided, not sure on the timeframe, work and all.

The evefit project Pyfa thread Phobos thread
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#160 - 2012-04-24 08:04:35 UTC
Sakari Orisi wrote:
Can be provided, not sure on the timeframe, work and all.


Remember that it has to be done solo. So no RR or energy transfer allowed.