Warfare & Tactics

Serious question. What is War good for?

Even with the changes coming in Inferno, what is War good for?

Wars traditionally are for conquering territory and resources, or money, but occasionally they have had the goal of total destruction of the opposition.

The only thing is that wars in EVE usually end with one side paying off the other. And even then, that doesn't always work.

The 1-week enforced peace coming in Inferno will help mitigate that somewhat, true.

Time to admit something here: My corp is currently involved in a war that has dragged on for at least a month. I will not say with who. I'm not here to complain or demand that this be ended.

My question is why is this allowed in the first place?

The war has seen underhanded tactics from the attacking corp like dropping and joining their corp at strategic points, trying to catch us off guard, or get us CONCORDed (including one incident where a person dropped corp mid-battle. He was destroyed, no one got CONCORDed). Meanwhile, BOTH sides have used the docking-up tactic, which is not fun for either side.

A representative for the attacking corp has even said: "We intend on getting paid or disbanding your alliance. Every dec we do ends with either or. It's your guys' choice which one."

We've payed the corp menacing us. It hasn't worked.
We've massed troops to face them. It hasn't worked.

War is supposed to encourage people to blow each other up. It doesn't. The best tactics, the ones that cost the least, are unfun activities, like docking up, or running. And if a game becomes unfun, what's the point of playing?

The changes come Inferno don't seem like they will change the viability of these tactics, or give better alternatives.

Why?

Because, as Massively said in one of its articles on the changes coming in Inferno, "The main thing that I think needs to be fixed with the war system is the complete lack of victory conditions for either side, particularly for the defender."

The problem with War, specifically in EVE, but sometimes in real life too, there's no way to win. In EVE, this means it turns into a gank-fest, which is unfun for the target, or docking up for the duration of the war, which is unfun for both sides.

To go back to Massively's words, again, "The ideal war system would be one that forces the attackers to commit and has clear victory conditions. It should make small corps engaging large entities riskier and encourage people to fight a war rather than dock up for a week."

With the information I've seen, I don't have faith that war will be made fun come Inferno.

So I ask again, when the best tactic in a war is to log off and go play Star Trek Online...

War: What is it good for?

Highsec warfare is basically only for 3 things:

- Griefing Industrial Corporations
- Extracting ISK from targeted corporations
- RvB PvP practice

Many of your points about war are spot on.

- There is no way to win
- Attacking corps will only fight when they have a clear and decisive advantage
- Defending corps will only fight when they have a clear and decisive advangage
- Docking games are lame and a complete waste of time.

Many of the problems with highsec warfare stem from the reasons that it is used. When an industrial corp has war declared against them by a PvP corp, they generally either stay docked up playing station games, or simply don't log in for the week. They move assets around with neutral alts, or ultimately, they just drop corp until the war is over. The fights and tears generally desired by the aggressing corporation are nearly always denied by the target corporation, making the war a frustrating waste of time for both sides.

In my opinion, any corporation that pays a 'ransom' to have a war end is stupid. There is no system that requires the aggressing corporation to cease war activity, and even if they do end the war, there is no system in place (yet) to prevent them from re-declaring war 48 hours later.

Logically, one would think that when an aggressed corp simply chooses to deny the aggressor any fights or tears, the aggressing corporation would simply sod off, but for some reason they don't. They spend hour upon boring hour camping outside stations in a hope to get a gank on an unsuspecting WT.

How is this fun for any side?

The solution is to stop paying ransoms, deny lols, give no tears, and basically turtle up until they go away.

Exactly the problem. It's not fun FOR EITHER SIDE.

Fred, I'm not advocating removing war decs altogether. I'm saying they need to change, because they're not fulfilling the purpose they're designed for, which is ships blowing up.

And my point is: The changes to the war dec system that have been previewed as coming in Inferno won't fix the problems inherent in the system.

for lolfun or tears

Yes, this is what it's meant to be.

In reality, it is just a week of station games and both sides running away from fights while attempting to get a gank.

I are kyute kitteh!

Poastin' in ur wardec-whinge thread #3,456,789,999,999,999,...,999!

E: Your crying. It hurts my brain.

"We've payed the corp menacing us. It hasn't worked."


OP .. this has sealed your fate. Enjoy your disbanding.

Absolutely nothing!

High Sec, what is it good for?

May I ask where you got that knowledge from?