Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm rather bothered at the amounts of empire minerals given by nullsec ores. They give some, but so little it's literally insignificant. By the numbers per refine unit, they look significant at a glance, but when you calculate how much you get by volume, you'd find it would take dozens or hundreds of times as much to really amount to much at all. Is this an oversight of some kind? Why do the nullsec ores even yield these minerals at all?

I think if their quantities were beefed up many times higher than current, until they were in significant amounts, it would make for much easier production mining in nullsec, as you could be mining the standard materials while still mining the stuff you can sell for isk. I'm looking at Gneiss and Spodumain in particular. They have generally had a low sell value throughout EVE's history due to their low yields in comparison to other ores at siimilar security status/rarity. Even when the minerals they provide a lot of go up in value, it only makes ABC valuable, and Gneiss and Spodumain stay worthless in comparison.

If Gneiss gave about 20x more mexallon and 5x more isogen, and Spodumain gave about 100x more Tritanium and Pyerite, they would become the ores of choice for anyone mining for production. The only thing the two wouldn't cover would be nocxium, but that's not hard to get in nullsec. They also wouldn't become too valuable most of the time, but they would be valuable enough to be worth mining even if you were only mining for profit. At least mining them wouldn't be a waste of time like it is now.

Disagree Most ships killed are in high sec. There are different styles of play, the main one currently is Make isk buy item compress modules to refine in Null sec. The ease of gathering mineral in high sec will continue to be "low risk" but the risk to mine in empire, to be self sustaining is out of wake for the risk. It also Takes 1 T1 ships to make a T2 ship. Mining for production sucks.


Hope into a Worm hole, do some find some ore belts . there will be limited stuff to mine there. According to Statiics from a year ago this is where 25% of the ABC's are coming from.


As it stands there is no way to compete locally harvesting Low end minerals vs going to Jita to buy it. I know of many miners who have gone back to empire after trying to mine for production in empire because it just was not worth the risk. So they had made alt corps and have been mining there, compressing the minerals into modules and shipping them up to Null Sec for ship production. I would like to see these guys back out in Null sec and not competing for ore belts in empire.

Jita will never die. based on the simple reason there is a "selection" of items there. The only null sec hub comparable is VFK in Deckline - This place is powered by over 8 thousand people - mainly sell orders. Most of the stuff is bought from Empire.

Even if they made Spodumane rocks into 100% Trit. Jita would still thrive. A place to sell the High end ore mined and a place to by low end to do production for those alliances that don't have an industry program.



The Outposts are a Big Alliance game. Especially when a Minmatar out post can get up to 50%. The out posts need debuff when reprocessing. POS's need a boost to compete. As they cost Isk to operate and have a hard cap of 35% loss I hope the new POS expansion fixes that.


Agree Something has to be done. Maybe the new Faction warefare sov system will have some effect.

Summary:
Add more gravs to high sec, some gravs have Spod in small quantities that are easy to mine out, (while others continue to have jaspet, and perhaps rarely hed, hem, and gneiss)

Sov Null: maybe add more dense Veldspare to the belts, so they can mine it if they wish, but still have the supply such that null ends up with an excess supply of Zydrine and Megacyte from the roids

Low/NPC null: ore with a massive boost to refining yield, buffed mining ships.[/quote]

ORES AND WHERE THEY ARE .
I really have to disagree with the idea of changing the ore amounts and where they are mined . That system as far as i can see is fine . Null sec have the advantage of mining with 2 capital class ships . This is something high sec does not have the luxury of . A good null sec mining group will have a rorqual in a pos full time boosting and compressing ore while using an orca to haul the ores from the miners back and fourth . this means there is always one ship boosting . since it is sitting in a pos it can just offload to corporate hangers where a freighter can come and pick it up .

In high sec they loose out on boosts every now and again or have to sacrifice one mining barge in exchange for a orca so we dont loose boosts . Either way high sec looses out in ore amounts to mining time . However its safer in high sec they have the luxury of jet caning while an orca is off the field unloading .

Now to the second point of this . I dont think adding these extra scannable sights will be of any use to anyone in high sec . Believe it or not they are usually scanned down and mined out in minutes by npc players . By the time a serious industry corp and alliance get to these sites there is usually nothing left worth mining for the amount of people they bring and the lenghth of time it takes to get them there .

The current system work fine . To be honest you can get all the ores you need in high sec . Though some of it is in small quantities . All you need to do is base your operations in different parts of high sec . Usually between amarr caldari gallente and mimitar space you can mine everything you will ever need to build a ship . The only problem is time or the cost to base yourself out of more than one part of empire space .

Also ontop of that the current system works with null supplying high end and high sec providing low end ores . This is what keeps the market going . Excess ores from high sec and null sec are sold on the markets . We all know with manufacturing null sec ores are a small part of ship building in general . High sec low end ores are the highest quantities of any ore for building ships . With the current system i can by my high sec ores with the excess high ends i dont need and visa versa .


ACT OF MINING
Mining itself should have changed made . Either buff the mining vessels or give attributed to the belts to help miners escape from potential pvp situations . Some of the ideas is as follows .

1 . Add rogue drones to belts . These drones do not target ships unless they are combat capable .
Suicide ganking and possible ganking of any miner is reduced due to the drones instantly targeting any combat vessel on belts . As they are destroyed more drones spawn overwhelming the pvp pilot . This means they either leave or die .
Drones also mine the belts when combat ships appear . They immediately do this to replicate themselves to send more out .
This idea is not mine . cant remember the thread it was in to give props to the poster .

2 . The belts themselves are the protection of the miners . Dust from mining is created interfering with combat ships sensors taking them longer to lock up . They still have the ability to suicide gank but only if players are inactive or the occasional bot .
This one is my idea .

3 . New drone mining vessel . Huge tank and cargo capacity . Massive bonuses to mining drones to make it competitive with the current exhumers .
again this is not my idea . Its a thread i recently read but cant seem to find it again . so props to the poster is he is reading this ,

4. As Gevlin said . remove one high and give it extra lows or mids to compensate for a descent tank . (however to add to his idea , if this is done to exhumers they would need a major increase in yeild bonuses to the ship or i will make it obsolete and people would just fly coveters .)

REFINING BUILDING IN POS AND OUTPOSTS
As for refining reprocessing and general industry i think NPC should be left alone . Maybe reduce the amount of 50% refine stations or limit other things like manufacturing in these stations . However the true null or sov side of needs buff or rebuild of the current system .

I know CCP are going to make the POS modular . In other words all mods will directly fit to the main pos structure making them a structure you can dock in . Not sure how they are going to do this and if docking in them will be restricted to those with corporate hangers and ship maintenance arrays . However i think the same should be done to outposts . They should be configurable across the board like a pos but regardless of how they are configured they are always dockable in . Give them all the same powergrid and cpu but their defenses the same as their races . This way they can only be configurable on a limited basis for what the corporation / alliance needs that owns that station .

Ie stations configured for mining /manufacturing has severely reduced amounts offices and research slots . A maxed out research facility with lots of offices has severely reduced reprocessing abilities and manufacturing slots . this means they can only be configured a few different ways .

I have no idea how outposts work . Its just a though . only dealings i ever has with an outpost is blowing them up or docking in them . If someone want to add to my idea about it with a bit more detail then please do so .

Some of the most exciting conversations I've seen in a while! Sorry to have been a little absent. Prepping for some goon backlash has been a distraction.

I'll take some time tomorrow to really join this discussion. My impression so far is that our timing may be right to get some great mining improvements in the next year from CCP. Mining is not a dirty word in the CSM or with CCP at the moment!

So,

Miners Rock!

More in the next day or so (I am #1 on the goon death squad list so I'll be a little distracted)

Keep this discussion going!!!

Issler

It would also remove the Rorqual's main function.

Sure, you cannot use a Rorq in hisec, but it is completely viable in empire space.

I've seen worse ideas for mining, but it does break things a bit.

TBH, I want to see CCP ramp up the scarcity of minerals even more. Get rid of daily respawns and go back to M/F (or maybe M/W/F nowadays), with Friday being the "big" respawn and M(and W) being 50% (or so) of the "big" respawn -- pretty much just enough so that you've got a little trickle of minerals during the week.

Along with that, make the rocks able to be bigger (say 2-3x, not so big that they take days to mine out)... but they have to grow to that size. So, in hisec you're probably never going to see huge rocks, lowsec border systems will be big-ish, and deep low and null will be full of these absolutely massive rocks...

The idea of weekly respawns are really good. Especially if the roids respawned were HUGE. This could also make exploration for virging roid belts more interesting and create some good new opportunities for all types of gameplay.

I do think we would need UI boost by having drag drop of locations into chat and mail.. and hangar etc.. INTEGRATION of overview, Location ID (bookmarks), Ship hangar SCRIPTS (bookmark and overview settings, and scanner types and results) , and the ship SCANNER. (Right click in space warp points etc. Right click a script or drag drop would add it to any of these types.

Also Ship Fittings for industrial ships should show Mining and other read out info, like scanning etc. Would be nice with ship fittings having a whole details tab with all the related and relevant data. Missile flight times drone mining yield, etc etc.. Currently its a bit biased to combat.

I hear you.. this direction has merit.. Why not link it to WH. So when WH close new roids appear in that system? That way players would be part of generating the flows of these things. It should be on a scale, that made it difficult if not impossible to speculate and abuse.. Maybe let the linking be so that the order was where the WH 5 pops down the line was the deciding factor for the respawn of roids in the "current" system. the data should be written in and not spawn until next DT. That way you would not know what systems had respawned and the only benefit would be first to start scanning for the new territories? I dont think its a good idea to put to much strain on the servers, so unless the system simply added numbers to existing roids in say empty systems, I think DT is needed?

I would like to see more drones than better bonus drones. The reason being is that current drones become less effective as the larger ore is mine (wasted cargo capacity of drone for ore mined) This would make this ship unique and separate from the Hulk win not only a tank but would (after tweeking) mine as much as the hulk on low end ores but fall behind on high end ores.
So this ship would be found working along side a Hulk, not a replacement, at it each, lets say 10 Rocks at once of low end while the hulk site and targets all the high ends meeting the "Turtle" (place holder name) on the Gness Rocks. If there could be a Covetor and Retriever like T1 Version of this ships it would be great.

wrong post