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Should i skip battlecruisers for battleships for pve so i have a good source of income

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GeneralDeath Hakomairos
Hair-Trigger
#1 - 2012-04-24 00:04:58 UTC
What the subject says should i skip battlecruisers for battleships for pve so i can have a good source of income. i have friends who say they will be doing level 4 missions but i dont want to rely on others for income
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2012-04-24 00:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I wouldn't avoid battlecruisers, as they are the bread and butter of PvP, and perfect for level 3 missions.

Battlecruisers share a lot with cruisers, so they are an easy step to take.

I started doing level 4 missions in a battlecruiser until I was brave enough to try a battleship. Ran every level 4 mission I could in the battlecruiser, then lost the battleship the day after I got it. They are different beasts.

I now like to do level 4 in a battleship or a strategic cruiser.
Nicolai Xperte
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-04-24 01:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolai Xperte
BC's are fun and use the same type weapons cruisers use so it's best to train BC's to at least 4 while you run mish's in the BC have you BS and Larger weapons training so while you're waiting to get into that Hyperion or Raven you'll be making money w/o worrying do i have the proper skills for this.

I don't always bring out my Absolution.

But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-24 01:11:12 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I wouldn't avoid battlecruisers, as they are the bread and butter of PvP, and perfect for level 3 missions.

Battlecruisers share a lot with cruisers, so they are an easy step to take.

I started doing level 4 missions in a battlecruiser until I was brave enough to try a battleship. Ran every level 4 mission I could in the battlecruiser, then lost the battleship the day after I got it. They are different beasts.

I now like to do level 4 in a battleship or a strategic cruiser.


but level 3 missions suck, at least in hi-sec.
Nicolai Xperte
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-04-24 01:19:45 UTC
not as bad as they used to be remember when agents Quality -/+ that's what made them suck slowly grinding thru those loser agents to get that quality +20 agent now they are all balanced so it's actually not bad esp for someone just starting off.

I don't always bring out my Absolution.

But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol.
Flakey Foont
#6 - 2012-04-24 01:58:33 UTC
There is a lot more to flying a battleship than the hull. Are your gunnery, armor, shields all up to at least 4? Drones? T2?
Just jumping in a BS when you can doesn't mean you should. You may lose it, and if you don't L4s will take a loong time to finish.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-04-24 02:22:26 UTC
i made my first billion isk running level 3 missions in a drake.
level 4 missions ( battleships) are significantly harder then level 3 missions
to fly a BS in a lvl 4 mission decently you NEED t2 everything ( except maybe weapons
for level 3s you can easily get buy with almost everything t1, once more only meta 2-3

since BS need t2 items you need much much much more time to train the skills, while your flying your drake, or other BC in lvl 3s making money you get the skills for lvl 4s.
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-04-24 07:19:52 UTC
The step from cruiser to battlecruiser is small: they use the same size modules and weapons.

The step from battlecruiser to battleship is very large, do not underestimate it. You need AT LEAST good drone skills to get the scramblers of your back when you try your first Lv4 in a battleship. Otherwise it will be an expensive lesson.

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-24 16:29:16 UTC
You should always aim to use tech II weapons.

You cant use large tech II guns with out training there medium sized tech II counter parts. Its a pre req

What does that tell you about the idea of "shooting up to battleship" and ignoring Battlecruisers.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2012-04-24 17:15:12 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
but level 3 missions suck, at least in hi-sec.

but before you can do level 4 missions, you have to do level 3 missions (or a lot more of level 1 and 2).
Liam Mirren
#11 - 2012-04-24 17:18:39 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
but level 3 missions suck, at least in hi-sec.

but before you can do level 4 missions, you have to do level 3 missions (or a lot more of level 1 and 2).


Not true at all, you can get 5.0 standing with an npc corp in 2 days if you trained connections to 4, by chaining missions in a Destroyer. I did so with an alt with about 120k SP to get him access to locators.

Having said that, not training BC's is like not getting your car driver licence because you feel that motorbikes are faster and big trucks are heavier. technically correct but a car is a nice in between for just about everything.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-04-24 17:29:17 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
i made my first billion isk running level 3 missions in a drake.
level 4 missions ( battleships) are significantly harder then level 3 missions
to fly a BS in a lvl 4 mission decently you NEED t2 everything ( except maybe weapons
for level 3s you can easily get buy with almost everything t1, once more only meta 2-3

since BS need t2 items you need much much much more time to train the skills, while your flying your drake, or other BC in lvl 3s making money you get the skills for lvl 4s.


I'm curious as to how long it took you to get a billion from Level 3's. I get less than 1M isk per mission on level 3's so the grind must be suicidal at about 1,000 missions. If I'm doing it wrong, please let me know.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#13 - 2012-04-24 17:49:55 UTC
DeBingJos wrote:
The step from cruiser to battlecruiser is small: they use the same size modules and weapons.

The step from battlecruiser to battleship is very large, do not underestimate it. You need AT LEAST good drone skills to get the scramblers of your back when you try your first Lv4 in a battleship. Otherwise it will be an expensive lesson.

^ Very true. It's no fun being in a BS scrammed by frigs, and no way to hit them with your large turrets. Having good drones DPS is crucial for handling the little guys.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-04-24 18:35:06 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Herping yourDerp wrote:
i made my first billion isk running level 3 missions in a drake.
level 4 missions ( battleships) are significantly harder then level 3 missions
to fly a BS in a lvl 4 mission decently you NEED t2 everything ( except maybe weapons
for level 3s you can easily get buy with almost everything t1, once more only meta 2-3

since BS need t2 items you need much much much more time to train the skills, while your flying your drake, or other BC in lvl 3s making money you get the skills for lvl 4s.


I'm curious as to how long it took you to get a billion from Level 3's. I get less than 1M isk per mission on level 3's so the grind must be suicidal at about 1,000 missions. If I'm doing it wrong, please let me know.


back then i was in amarr space and armor plates were 200+k each normally you would get at least 10 per mission

this was pre noctis so i used another BC with cargo expanders and such assuming you get 4mil from salvage per mission its not bad, this means 20 missions and with salvage alone you can buy a new BS or so.
every 16 missions you get a story mission giving a good 15 mil profit or so

back then i played very heavily so i think i did 10 or so missions per day, most only take about 25 minutes if that. so that is about 50 mil per day... after a few months i got the courage to try lvl 4s and went from there.
at 50 mil per day give or take a storyline and random expenses like drones dieing or a ship loss you can make 1bil about a month


what i did
do 2-3 missions, book mark each pocket
come back in salvage ship, loot everything

since you bookmarked the wrecks you can use MWD to get to them.
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-04-24 19:05:12 UTC
Been about a week since did some level 3's but if I remember correctly, the mission reward was usually only about 500K. The loot from wrecks was mostly junk that had list prices on the market for only 30k isk so I quit looting them. This is in Amarr hi-sec space. I can only fly a Harbinger decently at the moment so I'm staying away from level 4's for a little bit longer.

I'll do a few level 3's tonight to see if remembered correctly
Kalli Brixzat
#16 - 2012-04-24 19:39:59 UTC
GeneralDeath Hakomairos wrote:
What the subject says should i skip battlecruisers for battleships for pve so i can have a good source of income. i have friends who say they will be doing level 4 missions but i dont want to rely on others for income


No...BC's are excellent birds and tend to be much more balanced than any BS out there. With low- to mid-SP, you'll get more survivability out of your BC than you will a BS. Better bang for the buck IMO.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#17 - 2012-04-24 20:01:08 UTC
GeneralDeath Hakomairos wrote:
What the subject says should i skip battlecruisers for battleships for pve so i can have a good source of income. i have friends who say they will be doing level 4 missions but i dont want to rely on others for income


If you do that, you'll likely lose ISK, not make it.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Multivariate
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-04-25 07:40:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Multivariate
GeneralDeath Hakomairos wrote:
What the subject says should i skip battlecruisers for battleships for pve so i can have a good source of income. i have friends who say they will be doing level 4 missions but i dont want to rely on others for income


Depends on the bird you're wanting to fly.

You need to field at least four t1 drones and priority uno is getting drone interfacing up a rank or two. If you don't do this you'll probably lose the ship. Priority two is getting a comfortable tank; in a raven you'll probably start with 4 power diagnostics in the low slots and 3x capacitor control circuits. As your skills improve you'll swap out one PDU then another for BCU's.


If you play a lot then it's well worth it to get a battleship ASAP, however a drake with bad skills is still faster than a cruiser at farming. Plus you can resell the drake when you're done with it, think of the ship as a rental. For a raven, I know it's possible to farm most l4's with bad skills. I was making about 8-12m an hour fresh into my Battleship with 2.8m skp (and half a mil in industry at that) I did hit hull once because I did not have ANY drones; I had to park the ship and train up drones a tad.

Additionally, due to bad skills you'll want to up to a CNR and CN launchers ASAP to improve your run time; you'll double your isk/hr vs T1 + bad skills.. All told it'll take you around 70 hours of farming l4's to get a decent fit. However, once you get a decent fit, you'll make as much in 30 hours as you spent on the ship (again this assumes very low skp).

Assuming you don't lose it Blink


ETA: Also avoid Caldari space for a bit while your DPS is low, the jamming on guristas missions can make breaking the tanks a PITA with no skills and only meta 3/4 launchers.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-04-25 08:18:42 UTC
Lyric Lahnder wrote:
You should always aim to use tech II weapons.

You cant use large tech II guns with out training there medium sized tech II counter parts. Its a pre req

What does that tell you about the idea of "shooting up to battleship" and ignoring Battlecruisers.


Good replies but the above is closest to the mark in bluntness.

Frigate = small guns, small components.
Cruiser = medium guns, medium components.
BC's = Cruiser fittings & weapons.
Battleships = Large guns and components.

If you want to get into L4's and more "power" - get the BC's train up your medium skills and go for T3's.

That gives you your best options at the fastest clip - and without much longer training times - sticker shock shouldn't hit too hard on T3's compared to "well fit battleships".

With strong implants and good skills, getting the battleship weapons to 5 will take over 19.5 days. Add on over 5 days to get 1 large specialization skill to 5...

That is just the base-line gun skill to then buy large weapons, which cost a lot more then their medium counter parts.

For that 25+ days, you could instead train other skills that will cross between Cruisers and Battlecruisers or just apply it fully and have spare days of training with BC's at 5 (which works across races, which a specific battleship won't).

I went battleships after BC's because I wanted to. It's your game time so you do what you want in it as you want. If you want to try out battleships first - that's your option but there are benefits to not bothering with the big ships for a very long time.
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#20 - 2012-04-25 08:52:25 UTC
Multivariate wrote:


ETA: Also avoid Caldari space


fixed.
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