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Crime & Punishment

 
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Noob Questions: High Sec Miner ganking.
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Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-04-23 16:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ustrello
Five Thirty wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
That's cute that you think pvpers are carebears


The ones ganking miners in high security space are most definitely carebears.

Shooting a mining ship is even LESS dangerous than shooting an NPC rat.

LOL @ PVP IS ALL ABOUT RISK!


So losing the gank ship, possibly messing up and not killing the mining barge loss of sec status aren't risk?

Edit sniper
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#62 - 2012-04-23 16:18:06 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
I gank for two reasons.

A) Maximum damage at a minimum cost/risk. Preferably solo.

T2 Hulks cost 320M ISK, and take many, many hours worth of mining to replace.
T2 Cats cost 15M. Takes only a few minutes to set up a kill and the risk is minimal. (mods are recovered)

While T2 salvage dropped + T2 Harvesters generally makes it profitable - however, profit is not the point.
This isn't 'Pirates on the Spanish Main'. German U-Boats didn't care about capturing British cargo from the Atlantic. They just wanted to see valuable industrial targets destroyed with maximum efficiency to achieve a larger goal.

B) Ethnic cleansing.
Think Serbs in Bosnia. Carebears are scum. They constantly whine "vote" for a safer highsec. This makes them undesirable. CCP listens, because there are simply too many of them. Repeatedly threatening and ganking a miner (especially younger ones) sometimes makes them give up and cancel subscription. This silences their whines forever, and New Eden becomes a better place for the rest of us to live.

Simple as that.


Wow dude.. Just, wow. I'd say you were just trolling to get some good lolz on the forums if I had just come to this forum for the first time. However, since I generally have a good picture of you over the last few months I can say that you probably aren't trolling. In this case I am just plain worried for you. The mentality that you carry is not only offensive (as you seem to endorse this kind of behavior in game, and also IRL) but is also rather disgusting. The Bosnian conflict was indeed not a joke and not something to laugh about. I first used the parallel of ethnic cleansing a few weeks ago but the intent was to show a similar kind of behavior and how the rest of the world doesn't tolerate it. The reason that I used this was to show you WHY CCP and the "carebears" frown on what you do.

I am truly saddened and disappointed with this post. I really hope that the rest of the pirate community does not share this belief.

Vexx
Sutskop
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-04-23 16:23:56 UTC
Arkturus McFadden wrote:

Why not just let the game take its course and stop trying to force a playstyle on people that don't want to play like that? Why not let the changes made give people the option to do exactly what you want them to do instead of discouraging them to play the game at all?


And thus it seems you would desperately want to enforce a certain playstyle on people that like to gank miners in hisec. Not fair either isn't it?
About the reasons they do it: Read the 50 other threads. It doesn't matter anyway. It is possible in this game, and Eve is meant to be this way. That's the reason why many people play it.
Eryn Velasquez
#64 - 2012-04-23 17:17:07 UTC
Sutskop wrote:

And thus it seems you would desperately want to enforce a certain playstyle on people that like to gank miners in hisec. Not fair either isn't it?
About the reasons they do it: Read the 50 other threads. It doesn't matter anyway. It is possible in this game, and Eve is meant to be this way. That's the reason why many people play it.


“I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.”

― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Think about that

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-04-23 17:28:32 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:
Sutskop wrote:

And thus it seems you would desperately want to enforce a certain playstyle on people that like to gank miners in hisec. Not fair either isn't it?
About the reasons they do it: Read the 50 other threads. It doesn't matter anyway. It is possible in this game, and Eve is meant to be this way. That's the reason why many people play it.


“I have never thought, for my part, that man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.”

― Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Think about that


Npc alt poster, opinion doesn't count
Eryn Velasquez
#66 - 2012-04-23 17:33:39 UTC
Ustrello wrote:

Npc alt poster, opinion doesn't count


Just using forum-mechanics, you know? Because i can.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-04-23 18:01:35 UTC
Still doesn't mean your opinion counts
Pope Pious TheFirst
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2012-04-23 19:03:38 UTC
Arkturus McFadden wrote:
Hey folks, just a quick question about the origins of this popular "trend" of sorts


Where did this originate from? Did it begin with killing mining bots and eventually spiraled down to killing any and all (if the opportunity arose) miners in high sec

Also, why is this done? for amusement? From what I understand of EVE, don't miners make mineral prices go down? Which then leads to more PVP because we all can get ships

Thanks for the replies.


The real origins of this goes back to 2004 when most people mined in Apocs. There were no mining ships. "Jet Can" mining was the normal thing to do. And if you stole someone's ore out of their can THERE WAS NO FLAG, and they would rage at you in local. The incredible arrogance of the miners, and their very foul mouthed rage in local, created an entire generation of ore thieves, as we were called. We'd spend all day in a hauler stealing ore from cans, and listening to the hilarious, foul mouthed rage in local. It became a challenge to see how much rage you could incite. I didn't even care about the ore I was stealing. An ore thief by the name of "Big doggy" comes to mind, as does "Ashley Sky", two of the original ore thieves in Eve.

So then they made it a crime. If you stole the ore you were flagged. OH BOY what fun that created. Now you could steal someone's ore and then if they attacked you, you could blow them up. Battle Badgers were a lot of fun, still are.

Eventually, people began to "Get a Clue", and quit jet can mining. Smart move. So we'd go system to system looking for cans, and only a few foolish people would have jets cans out, and it got boring fast. Also, people learned to not rage in local, which ruined that aspect of it.

So growing frustrated, and looking for a way to encourage more rage in local, people realized you could suicide yourself on ships and blow them up, and Concord would get there too late to stop you. Tank CEO was one of those first ganking haulers in Jita, which had not been done before on any large scale. So people began recreational ganking of hulks in high sec just to once again hear the over inflated egos raging in local. Web Sites like this were created, with some pretty amazing reactions documented from people after they had their precious ore stolen or their mining ship blown up. Some of the comments by these people are just plan incredible in an online game, to me. Also seeing how incredibly poorly they outfit their ships is a hoot.

So if the miners quit raging, and just shut up, and perhaps even fit their ships properly, this would have ended years ago. It's no fun unless the other person gets angry and says silly things in local. People that I am in channels with that do this daily share the comments made in local and they vary from being called many four letter words, to statements about being petitioned, to actual real life death threats. all of which are beyond stupid. Please see the website linked above for some of these convo's. When we're active, the channel "hulk chat" is a good place to hear some of this.

Of all the many people I've podded in Jita, most of which I never posted the km for, had raged at me or even sent me ONE single email, I would have kept doing it. But they were completely silent, never got one hate mail. Sad statement, really, about how the game community of Eve has matured. It got boring, I might as well have been killing npcs.

Now my hobby is to kill the bots that sit at Jita docking locations and ninja loot from honest people that are ganking haulers and transports. These bots are well known and have been complained about repeatedly, some of them have many dozens of characters, and they disappear only to return with new characters. I know this because they brag to us who they are and that "I'm back!" They loot very fast, are there 23/7, and if the ship is blown up the pod just sits there for hours. They're always at exactly the same spots.

Blow a miner or a bot up today, and you will receive Blessings in the Afterlife, so sayeth your Pope Pious TheFirst. Amen
FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-04-23 19:25:00 UTC
Pope is pretty accurate for one half of the story. Here is the other half.

Gather 'round the campfire children as I tell you a story of ancient days and great men and women long ago.

In the old year of 2006 miners would band together to harvest minerals from asteroids. They would perform this action together, and with big ships for protection. When mining barges first came out this became an even more common practice, and miners would mine like this even while at war, under the watchful gaze of their big brothers. Eventually, though, miners lost their backbone, and decided collectively that they didn't like confrontation of any sort and wanted to limit the exposure of their precious mining ships to hostile entities. So, instead of getting into more powerful coalitions and having the occasional fights, the typical miners, collectively, got lazy and decided to simply join the NPC corporation.

It is only too clear that they did this because they could no longer be wardecced, and thusly, in their ignorance and falsely placed ego, figured themselves completely safe. Pvpers, without targets to harass, were only left with a few options. Either they could stop pvping, which is against their nature, or they could seek out the targets wherever they went. Miners, thinking themselves falsely safe, began mining in belts by themselves and without protection of their larger friends and family. Why should they? They were in the NPC corp and there were no war targets, after all.

The pvpers, thusly motivated, began suicide ganking with abandon because the miners sought the easy and lazy way out of confrontation, instead of embracing the nature of eve and banding together in ever larger and more protected coalitions. It is my humble opinion, children, that suicide ganking has evolved out of the PVPers adapting into the only role left available to them, because all other venues are absent.

TL;DR: Miners lost their backbone and fled to NPC corps / corps that dock up during wars, PVPers suicide gank because that's the only way to get them.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Pope Pious TheFirst
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-04-23 19:38:09 UTC
Yes there is some truth to the above statement, some did go to npc corps to stop being wardec'd, but there are many very large mining corps/alliances that you didn't mention. What you said is part of the story. But I, myself, and many of my friends who gank haulers daily, specifically avoid npc corp people just because having an entire corp/alliance raging at you, sending you hate mails, whining about you on these forums, and even war deccing you, is a lot more fun. I tend to leave npc corp people alone and have never podded one in Jita.
Eryn Velasquez
#71 - 2012-04-23 19:45:59 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:

The pvpers, thusly motivated, began suicide ganking with abandon because the miners sought the easy and lazy way out of confrontation, instead of embracing the nature of eve and banding together in ever larger and more protected coalitions. It is my humble opinion, children, that suicide ganking has evolved out of the PVPers adapting into the only role left available to them, because all other venues are absent.

TL;DR: Miners lost their backbone and fled to NPC corps / corps that dock up during wars, PVPers suicide gank because that's the only way to get them.


What a nonsense. If, what CCP states, about 70% of all activities are in highsec, this means 30% are still in low, null and wormholes. Everyday i see more than 40.000 people online, which means 12 to 13.000 in areas, where people with pvp in mind can find fights.

Most gankers only seach for easy targets which don't shoot back, like bullies in the sandpit destroying what others build. Childish behavior, with no honor, no balls, and no brain.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Pope Pious TheFirst
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2012-04-23 19:54:00 UTC
Eryn Velasquez wrote:


What a nonsense. If, what CCP states, about 70% of all activities are in highsec, this means 30% are still in low, null and wormholes. Everyday i see more than 40.000 people online, which means 12 to 13.000 in areas, where people with pvp in mind can find fights.

Most gankers only seach for easy targets which don't shoot back, like bullies in the sandpit destroying what others build. Childish behavior, with no honor, no balls, and no brain.


This is in my case totally true, I have no honor, no balls and no brain.
But in the case of many of these others who do this regularly, they're some of the most well known pvp'ers in the game.
So except in my case, what you say is completely incorrect.
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-04-23 19:59:51 UTC
It's funny, really.

Today, a bunch of gankers descended upon the belt our corp is in and blew up a couple of ships with that suicide catalyst fit they all have (because, apparently, no one can custom fit anything anymore). This is the same group of guys that started harassing us in belts a few days ago and got pissed off when we just responded by trying to sell them goats over local chat. They even threatened to wardec us, a group of maybe fifty miners at most. Never fired a shot, probably afraid to lose their Tornadoes to CONCORD. Of course, the wardec never came, but that just made it more hilarious. Maybe their CEO couldn't figure out how to use the corp dialog.

Right now, we're using ships that we can replace in less than a day of mining. We're still making a metric fuckton of profit. They're using day-old ganking alts, all of which have variations on the theme of THREE SIX WHO, suggesting they were so mad about the goats we tried to sell them that they made an alt specifically to gank our corp. That's a pretty damn high level of mad.

Oh well. They still seem to like goats.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
Haulie Berry
#74 - 2012-04-23 20:20:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Haulie Berry
Eryn Velasquez wrote:


Most gankers only seach for easy targets which don't shoot back, like bullies in the sandpit destroying what others build. Childish behavior, with no honor, no balls, and no brain.


Roll Chastising people for playing a game the way they enjoy playing the game is really no less childish than chastising someone for wearing the wrong clothes or liking the wrong kind of music.

It's a video game, and I'm pretty sure you can find people of all different quantities of honor, balls, and brains participating in every assorted playstyle.

In fact, I would say the assertion that people who play the game in a fashion you don't approve of are somehow inferior as human beings is the single most infantile behavior I've witnessed in Eve.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XgeYLAgHiyA/TNogaxTPM6I/AAAAAAAAAKs/yTF9P8mYGLw/s640/stop.jpg
Severe Pain
Paladin Order
#75 - 2012-04-23 21:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Severe Pain
Eryn Velasquez wrote:

Most gankers only seach for easy targets which don't shoot back, like bullies in the sandpit destroying what others build. Childish behavior, with no honor, no balls, and no brain.


Isn't that kinda obvious? Why would anyone go after those "hard" targets which you wouldn't get killed. No fun in there...So peeps go after the softer targets and in 99% of the cases they are soft because they have chosen to be one. I know that is impossible to make you 100% safe from the ganking, but there are ways to make it so difficult that isn't really worth it

But please tell me what would be mature activity, with honor, big balls and sparking brain :) I can only think one activity and you can't do that in EVE ;)
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#76 - 2012-04-23 23:05:14 UTC
Jacob Staffuer wrote:
Arkturus McFadden wrote:
Hey folks, just a quick question about the origins of this popular "trend" of sorts


Where did this originate from? Did it begin with killing mining bots and eventually spiraled down to killing any and all (if the opportunity arose) miners in high sec

Also, why is this done? for amusement? From what I understand of EVE, don't miners make mineral prices go down? Which then leads to more PVP because we all can get ships

Thanks for the replies.


Pretty much just a bunch of cyber bullies who have found a safe haven because this sort of thing is tolerated in EVE.


Get a grip, dumbass.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#77 - 2012-04-23 23:14:47 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:


Shaddup Skeletor


Hey, dumbass. You got something all over your face and in your eye.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#78 - 2012-04-23 23:24:21 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
I gank for two reasons.

A) Maximum damage at a minimum cost/risk. Preferably solo.

T2 Hulks cost 320M ISK, and take many, many hours worth of mining to replace.
T2 Cats cost 15M. Takes only a few minutes to set up a kill and the risk is minimal. (mods are recovered)

While T2 salvage dropped + T2 Harvesters generally makes it profitable - however, profit is not the point.
This isn't 'Pirates on the Spanish Main'. German U-Boats didn't care about capturing British cargo from the Atlantic. They just wanted to see valuable industrial targets destroyed with maximum efficiency to achieve a larger goal.

B) Ethnic cleansing.
Think Serbs in Bosnia. Carebears are scum. They constantly whine "vote" for a safer highsec. This makes them undesirable. CCP listens, because there are simply too many of them. Repeatedly threatening and ganking a miner (especially younger ones) sometimes makes them give up and cancel subscription. This silences their whines forever, and New Eden becomes a better place for the rest of us to live.

Simple as that.


Damn, Wilkus, you really are stupid.

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.
TravisWB
#79 - 2012-04-24 02:59:33 UTC
Arkturus McFadden wrote:
Hey folks, just a quick question about the origins of this popular "trend" of sorts


Where did this originate from? Did it begin with killing mining bots and eventually spiraled down to killing any and all (if the opportunity arose) miners in high sec

Also, why is this done? for amusement? From what I understand of EVE, don't miners make mineral prices go down? Which then leads to more PVP because we all can get ships

Thanks for the replies.


Carebear ganking is obviously a great deal more fun than being a human drone in a blob in null waiting for a FC to tell you what to shoot at.

In short, NULL SPACE is the fail, Carebear ganking is the evidence of that.
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#80 - 2012-04-24 04:48:48 UTC
It started as soon as the game launched, myself and a group of friends from beta all made alts and would fit tech 1 neutrons to velators with antimatter and use about 4 or 5 to gank the extremely common at the time bestower with a single mining laser left afk to mine in the days and weeks after launch.


The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.