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Moon Ring Mining - Theory Crafting
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Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-20 17:54:25 UTC
Announced at Fanfest, just some ideas from a hardcore miner, feel free to add / comment or enjoy. Figured this new CSM hasn't taken the bull by the horns on such a massive change we indy types might want to get something going.

Storyline: It was previously thought that those rock formations around the moons in low sec and null sec were devoid of resource. As announced by CEO Carelle Orsere, new scanning techniques developed by the Astral Mining Corporation have uncovered that these rocks contain a combination of Moon Minerals and low end Asteroid Minerals.

Astral Moon Mining in concert with ORE Corporation have developed new ships and equipment to access these resources.

The folks at Astral Mining have just published preliminary findings and announce the working projects with its partner ORE Corporation.

Moon Ring Belts
  • All moon ring belts can be scanned down using the same technologies used to scan down gravimetric sites.
    • Moon Rings belts are not found in space with a security level of 0.5 or higher.
  • Composition of Moon Ring Belts seem to directly correlate to the security level of each system, the lower the security level of the system, improves the quality of moon minerals found.
  • Multiple Moon Rock Types exist with variation in composition of moon and asteroid mineral similar to Veldspar, Dense Veldspar and Concentrated Veldspar
  • All constellations in null and low sec spawn moon ring belts each day as asteroids randomly hit moons and cause these rings to form. Industry activity in upgraded industry systems result in constant access / belt spawn rates as well increased size of the belts that become available.
  • Testing has confirmed that Moon Ring Mining does count towards increasing the industry levels of sov based systems.
  • Technetium and other R64 moon minerals are most commonly extracted from systems with a null sec rating of -0.5 with increasing quantities to -1.0 systems, but have a chance of being found in systems up as high as -0.1.
  • The size of moon rocks mined is significantly larger than asteroid rocks so a new ship with larger cargo capacity is needed to effectively mining the rings.
  • Refining Moon Ring rocks will yield moon products and also yield tritanium and pyrite, two of the basic building blocks of all items in the Eve Universe.
  • NPC Pirates will scan you down and attack you for being in their space as with standard grav sites, the type and difficulty of the pirates are tied to the security level of the system.
  • Normal Moon Ring belts once deplete will disappear there is no guarantee it will respawn in the same system.
  • Moon Ring Belts that spawn in upgraded industry systems do respawn once the belt has been completely cleared out.
  • Moon Rings have not been found in Wormhole Space

New or Moon Ring Mining Skill Books
  • Moon Ore Refining
  • Moon Ore Mining
  • Moon Ore Skill Books for each of the ores (names of rocks still under consideration by Astral Mining Geologists)
  • Ore Crawler – Capital Ship Book

*** CONTINUED NEXT POST ****

Java...Because mining is what the cool kids do...
Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-04-20 17:54:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Javajunky
Moon Ring Mining New Equipment - Equipment Blue Prints currently under development
  • Moon Bore I/II
  • Moon Bore Upgrade I/II
  • Moon Bore Strip Miner I/II
  • Moon Rock Mining Crystals (names of rocks still under consideration by Astral Mining Geologists)

New or Moon Ring Mining Ships Blue Prints under development

Excavator – This new class of Exhumer is cousin to the Hulk with similar tanking skills, Power Grid and CPU, however it contains improved cargo carrying capability to accommodate for increased size of m3 moon rocks require. It is the only ship capable of fitting a Moon Strip Miner and it cannot us any other type of Strip Miner designed for other ships. BPO is planned to be made available at both ORE and Astral Mining locations.
  • Estimated BPO cost is 1.6 Billion ISK
  • Can fit the Moon Strip Miner
  • New Mining Crystal Bay 2000 m3 Capacity

Ore Crawler – With the increased m3 of the moon ring rocks, ORE is developing a new class of capital learning from past class ship design and incorporating new features to allow teams to work better out in the fields. The design is based on need for moving more ore efficiently in system during group operations. While the ship is not designed to defeat a hostile fleet, fitted correctly it should be sufficient to hold a small number of foes at bay until friends arrive, not indefinitely. Since this benefits any mining operation, ORE has retained exclusive rights for the sale of this BPO.
  • Estimated BPO cost is 2.5 Billion ISK
  • Similar agility and warp time, resistances, and tank, power grid, and cpu characteristics of a Rorqual
  • Slots – 5 High / 5 Med / 3 Low / 3 Rigs (closer to orca in fittings)
  • Ship Maintenance Bay has been removed and replaced with Ore Cargo Capacity, total ore cargo capacity 1,500,000 m3
  • Corporate Hangar 50,000 m3
  • Cargo Space 10,000 m3
  • 400 m3 drone capacity bay
  • 20% Bonus to drone strength, durability and range per level of Ore Crawler Skills
  • 20% Bonus to shield transfer range, strength and cycle time
  • Command Links or Bonuses cannot be used to keep the complexity of the ship design down.
  • Jump Engineer and Jump Drives are not in the design in its current form
  • Industrial Core doesnt restrict ship movement, the Industrial Core function in a Crawler allows any exhumer in fleet to directly link to the ore hold of the Crawler and deposit ore. Ships must be no more than 2500m in order to link to the ore hold. Industrial Core uses Heavy Water and is qty reduced by Industrial Configuration Skill Level. In the event that the Ore Crawler Hold becomes full, the ORE will be deposited as it normally would in the Cargo Hold of the Exhumer.
  • Fuel Bay: 10,000 m3

Java...Because mining is what the cool kids do...
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-04-20 22:25:38 UTC
A goony talking about mining! LAWL.
Sidrat Flush
School of Applied Knowledge
#4 - 2012-04-21 07:08:24 UTC
Some good ideas in there, if they're all Java's ideas then it's a great foundation to build upon.

I'm not certain we need more capital industrial ships, surely one is enough?

It would be a shame if the new mining features were excluded from Wormhole space.

Moon roids should not need to be 1k m3 like ice. Putting them in grav sites is a nice touch though and would hinder (not totally stop) the botters from profiting.

Will moon reactions be allowed in .5 systems? It should be if it isn't already, and would tie in nicely with the new war dec features. If you want a pos for research, buy large and fit a processor or two on it at the same time. Want a juicy empire war target - more large pos's to have fun with.

Roid Mining ships could be tech 2 versions of the hulk/exhumer.

Skill books would be dependant on what audience the activity is geared towards? What would the pre-reqs be? ability to pilot a hulk, or would that be a time sink and detract from it's purpose?

A collection of interesting ideas indeed.

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.
Adunh Slavy
#5 - 2012-04-21 07:36:00 UTC
Earlier today I posted an idea in F&I

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98831

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#6 - 2012-04-21 07:59:45 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
A goony talking about mining! LAWL.

The end is near ?

But still interesting. Shocked

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#7 - 2012-04-21 14:48:56 UTC
Hmmm. I was under the impression from CCP Soundwaves brief piece on moon ring mining at Fanfest 2012 that moon rings containing 'moon goo' reserves would be seeded into high sec space as well? Otherwise this would be yet another buff to the nul sec community and would not break the monopoly on this resource. Mining is not generally a very popular activity in nul sec so the idea would be wasted if it was only available in nul. I agree it should also be made available in wormholes as another post said.

I don't think we really need new mining or capital mining vessels introduced with moon mining. Increased storage capacity is a no-no as it will inevitably reduce ore/mineral prices when we just getting them up to to a good level for miners now. Big smile . I have no problem with needing more skills and or introducing a new category of strip miners that only are for use on moon rings but not with an increased yield.
Sara Seraph
Sara Inc
#8 - 2012-04-21 21:16:33 UTC
I was under the impression it was to be moon goo only. Be that as it may, why not include other things as well.

I am not certain another ship is required, a miner module and/or skills might be a nice addition.

I do like the idea of scanning grav sites.

Having it in all space - types and amounts set by security status would also be a nice feature - but very small amounts in the highest security systems.
Skorpynekomimi
#9 - 2012-04-22 04:12:41 UTC
Should be planetary rings, not moons. Bits that should have been a moon, but got torn up by tidal forces.

TBH, you could easily just add a new module and bonuses to mining barges and exhumers, and call it done, though. Maybe a brand new exhumer to specialise in it, to match the existing ones.

Economic PVP
SugarFr33
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-04-22 11:25:09 UTC
Another variation of an existing mining barge would be more suitable i think? like with command ships.
blood hauler
The Art of War
#11 - 2012-04-22 13:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: blood hauler
personal i hope they do something special with ring mining and not just a new lock target and hit new type of mining lasers e.g

A new type of ship which is cylinder in design with mining been done as you fly though the ring, however any ship which is moving inside the ring area they take damage based on they speed. (warp speeds don't count


The damage rate should be high (good rp as why no one has ever mined a ring before this ship as it was though to be madness)

I don't think damage should be based on mass of the ship as your flying your ship in to huge rocks so think of fly's hitting the windscreen when it comes to frigs.

speed and collection rates and damage

0 no ore no damage
1-100m/s - 500 ore an hour --- damage 800 damage every 15 seconds (the rate of a t2 large rep
101-200 - 1000 ore an hour -- damage 2400 damage every 15 second
201-300 - 2000 ore an hour -- damage 7200 damage every 15 second
301-400 - 4k ore an hour - damage 21600 damage every 15 seconds or omg your going to di
401-500 - 8k ore an hour - damage 64800 damage every 15 seconds what do you mean your not dead ye
and so o

should get ore every min that you are flying with the adv speed your flying at in that min been the rate e.g you can't fly at 99m/s for 58 seconds then 105 for 3 seconds to make the next rat then drop back down to avoid damage

resists should not matter to the damage you take (your flying in to huge rocks at high speeds it's going to be brutal)

the ore should refine down like asteroid ore e.g you can't just pick to mine the rare stuff your going to end up with some common stuff

The other thing i would balance the amount of isk you make an hour would take the current moon goo prices in jita and half they value then say that a ring miner going at 150 m/s in low sec should make more than an incursion runner in empire makes (he is taking more risk been in the ring and been in low sec so he should have a greater reward)
Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-04-23 14:36:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Javajunky
Sidrat Flush wrote:
Some good ideas in there, if they're all Java's ideas then it's a great foundation to build upon.
I'm not certain we need more capital industrial ships, surely one is enough?

In terms of another capital in the game, especially one that is not in a combat role, why not add another target of opportunity for the PVP folks? Last years boost / siege module changes permantently entrenched a Rorq behind a POS shield and unless it was fueling a tower or maybe running to do a quick pick up in the sites, it's an asset not at risk.

There are several other reasons why the ship would fit nicely in the CCP scheme of things.
  • The ship complements the CCP goal of team work and mining ops, but it doesn’t replace the functionality of boosting ships. it does not increase the amount of ore mined per hour.
  • It's unique ability is massive m3 ore movement, it wouldn't replace any roles related dry goods transport. It's not a jump capable ship such as a Rorqual either.
  • The unique ability to link and drop ore directly in the ore hold creates opportunities for more accounts for CCP, it eliminates the jet can, that might appeal to PVP folks who can go run combat sites on thier main and offer fleet protection at the same time. CCP loves multi-boxers, this encourages that.
  • It encourages more legitimate industry multi-boxers as well. It's not a boosting ship so the serious multi-boxing miner is going have to add another account or give up m3 per hour (am I right hardcore miners?)
  • CCP specifically acknowledged at Fan Fest a need to work on end game content for Sr. Players, this is certainly some love in that direction for Industry players without directly impacting or changing the amount of m3 mined by a single account. This is important because CCP doesn’t want to improve the amount of m3 mined by a single player, it doesn’t want a super hulk, more accounts or getting more net new players. This is just good RL business logic.


Sidrat Flush wrote:
It would be a shame if the new mining features were excluded from Wormhole space.

I’d have a hard time trying to figure out the storyline on how and why moon rings would have any moon goo when the planet never had any moon goo resources to begin with. It just magically appeared. If they came around like scannable grav sites though, I’m not opposed, just trying to follow the logical evolution.

Sidrat Flush wrote:
Will moon reactions be allowed in .5 systems? It should be if it isn't already, and would tie in nicely with the new war dec features. If you want a pos for research, buy large and fit a processor or two on it at the same time. Want a juicy empire war target - more large pos's to have fun with.

Not sure you want to be taking stuff away from Low-Sec and moon reactions would definitely do that. I have never been a low sec pubbie but I appreciate how that section of space is struggling for content.
Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-04-23 14:45:10 UTC
blood hauler wrote:
personal i hope they do something special with ring mining and not just a new lock target and hit new type of mining lasers e.g

A new type of ship which is cylinder in design with mining been done as you fly though the ring, however any ship which is moving inside the ring area they take damage based on they speed. (warp speeds don't count


The damage rate should be high (good rp as why no one has ever mined a ring before this ship as it was though to be madness)

I don't think damage should be based on mass of the ship as your flying your ship in to huge rocks so think of fly's hitting the windscreen when it comes to frigs.

speed and collection rates and damage

0 no ore no damage
1-100m/s - 500 ore an hour --- damage 800 damage every 15 seconds (the rate of a t2 large rep
101-200 - 1000 ore an hour -- damage 2400 damage every 15 second
201-300 - 2000 ore an hour -- damage 7200 damage every 15 second
301-400 - 4k ore an hour - damage 21600 damage every 15 seconds or omg your going to di
401-500 - 8k ore an hour - damage 64800 damage every 15 seconds what do you mean your not dead ye
and so o

should get ore every min that you are flying with the adv speed your flying at in that min been the rate e.g you can't fly at 99m/s for 58 seconds then 105 for 3 seconds to make the next rat then drop back down to avoid damage

resists should not matter to the damage you take (your flying in to huge rocks at high speeds it's going to be brutal)

the ore should refine down like asteroid ore e.g you can't just pick to mine the rare stuff your going to end up with some common stuff

The other thing i would balance the amount of isk you make an hour would take the current moon goo prices in jita and half they value then say that a ring miner going at 150 m/s in low sec should make more than an incursion runner in empire makes (he is taking more risk been in the ring and been in low sec so he should have a greater reward)


I don't see how that would work most of the industry people would just walk away from a process like that because industry people are not PVP are not the same type of people. Industry are people of spreadsheets, calculations and math based accomplishment. This and other similiar ideas previously proposed are like trying ot create something for PVP people to want to do industry, and sure it can work but that will last about 5 minutes until they say ok, my ritalin is wearing off, I'm bored with this now I'd like to go shoot something please.
blood hauler
The Art of War
#14 - 2012-04-23 16:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: blood hauler
true but if they just add this is a new item to mine train up a new skill to use a new mining laser which mines the same way as everything else does in the past as a wasted chance to add things.

Also if the new mining ship was designed in a way it could fly though a ring system with the only thing the owner of said mining ship needing to do is make sure he stopped inside the ring and not go mad with the speed.

Plus they is no point in making the rarer moon goo null sec only as the % of moon goo in low is the same as null (just alot more moons in null)