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Warp bubble bug or exploit?
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Dante Blake
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-04-18 23:40:46 UTC
I have never encountered this is my 5 years of play.

Going through nullsec and come on a gate with warp bubbles not on it, or in my path, but 100 km behind it. So I come out of warp directly on the gate, no warp bubbles in my path. My ship then flies 100 km past the gate and into a bunch of warp bubbles.

Is this matter of my ship not stopping at the gate a exploit people are using? I'm stuck in nullsec, this is my only route out and i just end up warping back away to a random moon before someone attacks me.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#2 - 2012-04-18 23:55:40 UTC
It's normal - I think they call it a drag bubble.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-04-19 00:19:25 UTC
Dante Blake wrote:
bug or exploit?


c) neither

If you are in line with a warp disruption bubble as you come out of warp (on the same grid as your destination), you will stop at the bubble. Whether the bubble pulls you past your destination or stops you short, you still hit the bubble.

I don't know why people choose to put bubbles "behind" a gate. It seems to me that it would be harder to get the thing aligned properly while serving the same function as stopping someone short. But, anyway, there you go.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2012-04-19 00:19:51 UTC
i am surprised, if you have spent time in null / w-space, that you've not met them. They're kinda like everywhere. Normal dynamics being applied in normal and pretty predictable way.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
drdxie
#5 - 2012-04-19 00:21:11 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
It's normal - I think they call it a drag bubble.



Yep, its a drag bubble.. You need to try and get yourself a BM 300km ish of the gate not inline with the bubble, warp to it, then warp to the gate. There may be an easier way.. but this is sadly what I do.. it took me over 2hrs to get through taisy in an AF with a cloak Sad warp to gate, get stuck in bubble...... cloak and slow boat out.
Maybe there is a better way.. hopefully someone will share it here Blink

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-04-19 03:57:53 UTC
drdxie wrote:

Maybe there is a better way.. hopefully someone will share it here Blink


Alas, I do not believe there is an easier route.

A lot of my eve-income is based on this dynamic … providing specialized bookmark sets that allow people to avoid much of these hassles. Kinda like the old days when you could not warp to a gate at zero.

If the gate itself is engulfed in a bubble and you do not already have a bookmark (or friend) near the gate but adequately offline with the gate itself, then you cannot warp to the gate or any of the preset distances from the gate without getting caught in that bubble. The point you’re warping to and the bubble are on the same ‘grid’ and are in line.

For these (if I’m flying a non-covops with a cloak) I just try to warp from an unusual direction, hoping not to land in a bundle of cans aimed to messup cloaking, and then cloak and slow (very slow) boat to a suitable location, usually above or below the gate itself at 270-300km (altho any 160+km distance will usually do). This can take a long time but is worth it IMHO. In a covops, obviously, it’s much quicker and safer … because you do not necessarily need to uncloak, and you slowboat faster while cloaked.

If the bubbles are drag or catch in nature, ongrid with the gate but not engulfing it, then you are usually ok by warping towards the gate from an unusual direction. I pullup the system map, look at gate-gate and station-gate lines and decide which celestial gives me a line most removed from them. Then I warp to near that celestial and then make my warp to the gate … fingers crossed.

The DS can also be very useful in checking whether or not the gate is bubbled and camped, altho I tend to assume every gate is bubbled and pretty well always warp to my near-gate bookmarks if I have them or set about building one if I don’t.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Adunh Slavy
#7 - 2012-04-19 04:02:46 UTC
Stop warping gate to gate

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#8 - 2012-04-19 10:35:35 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
[quote=drdxie]
For these (if I’m flying a non-covops with a cloak) I just try to warp from an unusual direction, hoping not to land in a bundle of cans aimed to messup cloaking,


Now this really sucks. I got uncloaked by a load of mining drones which were deployed around 4 drag bubbles around a gate. There were 45 drones in total and im pretty sure they were not launched for combat purposes during a fight! Reported it but was told they wouldnt do anything unless the total number of drones was around 100! Still seems a bit over excessive to me!

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........
Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front - Reborn
#9 - 2012-04-19 12:42:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ynot Eyob
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Stop warping gate to gate


And you have Drag and stop bubbles.

One behin the gate, drag bubble
Or a stop bubble infront of the gate 70-120km infront of the gate.

I cant belive you have player for 5 years and never seen them... must be a troll

Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-19 13:59:29 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
drdxie wrote:

Maybe there is a better way.. hopefully someone will share it here Blink


you slowboat faster while cloaked.



Only in a black ops. (and those can't warp while cloaked)
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#11 - 2012-04-19 14:41:17 UTC
drdxie wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
It's normal - I think they call it a drag bubble.



Yep, its a drag bubble.. You need to try and get yourself a BM 300km ish of the gate not inline with the bubble, warp to it, then warp to the gate. There may be an easier way.. but this is sadly what I do.. it took me over 2hrs to get through taisy in an AF with a cloak Sad warp to gate, get stuck in bubble...... cloak and slow boat out.
Maybe there is a better way.. hopefully someone will share it here Blink


Lol at these posts... These bubles are alligned only to one specific route. Therefore all you have to do (if there is only the one bubble) is to identify this route (95% gate to gate for busiest route 4.9999% station to main exit gate 0.000001% something else when we are talking one bubble) and simply look at the system map (shocking I know) and find a celectial that is a good deal off (left right up down whatever) of this straight line between the two gates etc. Warp to that celectial and from there 0 to the gate.

Provided your sense of geometry was good enough to allow you to create a difference of more than 5-10% degrees then you will land squat on the gate and jump through just fine (what will happen on the other side with you in a pod is another matter altogether).

As to the guy wondering why these are put behind and not in front of the gate there are many small advantages:
(a) easier to allign if not warping to xxx urself but simply moving to position manually... you just allign visually the two dots (the two gates usually) and snipe urself right behind them.
(b) allows for less angle difference from celectials (miniscule)
(c) makes it more "ohshit" when people see the gate go by.
(d) allows hunter sitting on the incoming end in order to decloak cloaked would be victims, to have a shorter ride to the gate (sitting on the gate side of the bubble in this case) assisting with GFO doctrine.
(e) somehow it seems to provoke less (on a subliminal level) passers by to gank it if it is not between them and their destination (no sense just insticts)
-also a few sekrits :P -

As to the distance: usually it will be 70-90 kms from the gate to prevent friends of the victim sitting on the gate (or jumping through it or randoms) to warp to the fight for *****, giggles and finishing off profits...
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#12 - 2012-04-19 20:15:36 UTC
In my opinion, drag bubbles as they function now are bad for Eve. They're primarily useful for catching those inexperienced enough to wander into them, like the OP. Their mechanics are almost entirely omitted from official documentation so that people who haven't been taught are forced to learn about them the hard way. Worse, there's not way to detect their effect until you land on them.

"But Floppie, you should have scouts!" Sure, if you have alt accounts or people willing to scout for you. But if you have those, you probably don't fall into the category of new/inexperienced. Noobs are going to die in nullsec often enough without having to figure out undocumented game mechanics like drag bubbles.

"Silly clown, use bookmarks!" CCP created warp-to-zero because it became such standard practice to own warp-to-zero bookmarks that they were a burden on system resources. They also created a very significant disadvantage for people who didn't have access to those bookmarks. I don't see a distinction here: lack of proper bookmarks shouldn't result in you being sucked into a bubble and pummeled by a gate camp.

If drag bubbles are going to exist, there should be some warning that they're going to pull you off-course when you initiate warp. This gives an attentive pilot time to stop warp and attempt a different approach.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#13 - 2012-04-19 20:38:19 UTC
Ravnik wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
[quote=drdxie]
For these (if I’m flying a non-covops with a cloak) I just try to warp from an unusual direction, hoping not to land in a bundle of cans aimed to messup cloaking,


Now this really sucks. I got uncloaked by a load of mining drones which were deployed around 4 drag bubbles around a gate. There were 45 drones in total and im pretty sure they were not launched for combat purposes during a fight! Reported it but was told they wouldnt do anything unless the total number of drones was around 100! Still seems a bit over excessive to me!


Dropping stuff to decloak people is fine, it's only once it starts causing lag issues that it is a petitionable situation.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-04-19 20:49:02 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
In my opinion, drag bubbles as they function now are bad for Eve. They're primarily useful for catching those inexperienced enough to wander into them, like the OP. Their mechanics are almost entirely omitted from official documentation so that people who haven't been taught are forced to learn about them the hard way. Worse, there's not way to detect their effect until you land on them.

"But Floppie, you should have scouts!" Sure, if you have alt accounts or people willing to scout for you. But if you have those, you probably don't fall into the category of new/inexperienced. Noobs are going to die in nullsec often enough without having to figure out undocumented game mechanics like drag bubbles.

"Silly clown, use bookmarks!" CCP created warp-to-zero because it became such standard practice to own warp-to-zero bookmarks that they were a burden on system resources. They also created a very significant disadvantage for people who didn't have access to those bookmarks. I don't see a distinction here: lack of proper bookmarks shouldn't result in you being sucked into a bubble and pummeled by a gate camp.

If drag bubbles are going to exist, there should be some warning that they're going to pull you off-course when you initiate warp. This gives an attentive pilot time to stop warp and attempt a different approach.

Pfft! Working as intended you silly newb (to human behavior). Its risk and thats what EVE is all about. After 2-3 bubble drags, they will learn real quick to adapt.

What CCP needs to do is allow several bubbles after being aligned to drag into another another, basicly accelerating the ship caught. Put up 10 of those and by the last one you go so fast you just splat all over the solar system once you exceed Warp Bubble Factor 10 Roll
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-04-19 21:09:39 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
In my opinion, drag bubbles as they function now are bad for Eve. They're primarily useful for catching those inexperienced enough to wander into them, like the OP. Their mechanics are almost entirely omitted from official documentation so that people who haven't been taught are forced to learn about them the hard way. Worse, there's not way to detect their effect until you land on them.

"But Floppie, you should have scouts!" Sure, if you have alt accounts or people willing to scout for you. But if you have those, you probably don't fall into the category of new/inexperienced. Noobs are going to die in nullsec often enough without having to figure out undocumented game mechanics like drag bubbles.

"Silly clown, use bookmarks!" CCP created warp-to-zero because it became such standard practice to own warp-to-zero bookmarks that they were a burden on system resources. They also created a very significant disadvantage for people who didn't have access to those bookmarks. I don't see a distinction here: lack of proper bookmarks shouldn't result in you being sucked into a bubble and pummeled by a gate camp.

If drag bubbles are going to exist, there should be some warning that they're going to pull you off-course when you initiate warp. This gives an attentive pilot time to stop warp and attempt a different approach.


8/10, almost bought it!
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-04-19 21:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
ROXGenghis wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
In my opinion, drag bubbles as they function now are bad for Eve.


8/10, almost bought it!


Phew ... I also almost made a serious and sensible reply Oops


p.s. For OP, this is a pretty good site on the topic: http://eveinfo.net/wiki/ind~2132.htm

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#17 - 2012-04-20 04:18:18 UTC
Crellion wrote:
drdxie wrote:
IbanezLaney wrote:
It's normal - I think they call it a drag bubble.



Yep, its a drag bubble.. You need to try and get yourself a BM 300km ish of the gate not inline with the bubble, warp to it, then warp to the gate. There may be an easier way.. but this is sadly what I do.. it took me over 2hrs to get through taisy in an AF with a cloak Sad warp to gate, get stuck in bubble...... cloak and slow boat out.
Maybe there is a better way.. hopefully someone will share it here Blink


Lol at these posts... These bubles are alligned only to one specific route. Therefore all you have to do (if there is only the one bubble) is to identify this route (95% gate to gate for busiest route 4.9999% station to main exit gate 0.000001% something else when we are talking one bubble) and simply look at the system map (shocking I know) and find a celectial that is a good deal off (left right up down whatever) of this straight line between the two gates etc. Warp to that celectial and from there 0 to the gate.

Provided your sense of geometry was good enough to allow you to create a difference of more than 5-10% degrees then you will land squat on the gate and jump through just fine (what will happen on the other side with you in a pod is another matter altogether).

As to the guy wondering why these are put behind and not in front of the gate there are many small advantages:
(a) easier to allign if not warping to xxx urself but simply moving to position manually... you just allign visually the two dots (the two gates usually) and snipe urself right behind them.
(b) allows for less angle difference from celectials (miniscule)
(c) makes it more "ohshit" when people see the gate go by.
(d) allows hunter sitting on the incoming end in order to decloak cloaked would be victims, to have a shorter ride to the gate (sitting on the gate side of the bubble in this case) assisting with GFO doctrine.
(e) somehow it seems to provoke less (on a subliminal level) passers by to gank it if it is not between them and their destination (no sense just insticts)
-also a few sekrits :P -

As to the distance: usually it will be 70-90 kms from the gate to prevent friends of the victim sitting on the gate (or jumping through it or randoms) to warp to the fight for *****, giggles and finishing off profits...



Why was my post lol?? I was only answering the question.


A true example of lol would be something like - Your entire country being owned by Germany. :)

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Enquirer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-04-23 02:31:57 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
: lack of proper bookmarks shouldn't result in you being sucked into a bubble and pummeled by a gate camp.

If drag bubbles are going to exist, there should be some warning that they're going to pull you off-course when you initiate warp. This gives an attentive pilot time to stop warp and attempt a different approach.



lol

lack of proper planning shouldnt penalize me....... lol
I should have warning... lol maybe local!?!?!?

Gee, im in 0.0 flying a known route and i find myself in a system with 4-6 guys in it, all neuts.... thats your warning dumbass.
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-23 14:23:01 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:

If drag bubbles are going to exist, there should be some warning that they're going to pull you off-course when you initiate warp. This gives an attentive pilot time to stop warp and attempt a different approach.



While we're at it, I want an alarm that warns me if there is somebody on my route 6 systems before I get there...

Don't warp gate to gate, and don't warp to the sun...
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-04-23 15:31:34 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:


If drag bubbles are going to exist, there should be some warning that they're going to pull you off-course when you initiate warp. This gives an attentive pilot time to stop warp and attempt a different approach.

Quote:
Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you.
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