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Warfare & Tactics

 
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A carebear's question
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Bernie Nator
Seal Club Six
Plug N Play
#141 - 2012-04-22 08:09:01 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Your weakness reminds me of a baby lamb who is destined to become veal...shivering in a dark corner of a filthy barn, cut off from all light and nourishment. It's ok though. Soon you will become a delicacy. I, for one, cannot wait to sink my teeth in you. Pirate

How did you turn lamb into cow?

Mmmmm, veal.
Ayla Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2012-04-22 21:57:47 UTC
Honestly, there is nothing stopping you from presenting less of a target to gankers. I mine regularly in a covetor, but that doesnt stop me from strapping on a spear and shield and beating the war drum when necessary, I can and have killed other players in PvP during war, and during dull times when I need to burn ISK. You would be surprised how exciting being on the giving end of a PvP exchange is, instead of going OH ****, youre going **** YES! Give it a try, if you try it you just might like it.
Knus'lar
Wormbro
The Society For Unethical Treatment Of Sleepers
#143 - 2012-04-22 23:03:37 UTC
Five Thirty wrote:
What I am addressing in my OP is the sort of 'forced pvp' that occurs against players who have no ability to defend themselves.


You have NO ability to defend yourself? The game is stopping you from learning how to tank and fight back? No, you just refuse to do so. No one gives half a damn if you dont like getting blown up, they like blowing you up and they are free to do so until you stop them.

Basically, Man up.
Dheeradj Nurgle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-04-23 13:56:55 UTC
How do I say this nicely....

You have any idea how many minerals are in game? So much that fools are selling them for jack-squat
You have any idea hwo much ISK is in game? Neither do I..


The fact is, PvP, Solo, ganking, small gangs, Large fleets, POS Bashing, it all serves a purpose

PvP as I see it is the only large(And yet very ineffective) money sink

More PvP = more use for minerals, is an economy that has more life, = happy industrials. And since the industrials need to buy more minerals, the Miners will be happy, since they'll get better prices..
---

I myself started as a Miner, I then went into trading, and later into Industry... The fact is, as theraputic(SP?) Mining lasers are, as fun as it is to analize market data, It screws up the economy, it creates hugh stockpiles of minerals/ships/mods etc


TL;DR: PvP is good for everybody, Don't cry over a lost ship, it helps the economy, and remember, Hulkagedon is just around the corner.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#145 - 2012-04-23 14:13:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:

The only reason I can see for a ganker to actually go out ganking and call it PVP, is that they are so afraid of losing a fight that they are to scared to actually go into NULL or W-space where the real PVPers are.


Gankers don't call it pvp. They call it ganking, and it's usually for profit or tears. There is a difference and the only people to confuse the term and use of it are carebears who don't know any better.


That is true for some PVPers who occasionally go out ganking. Like for example many participants in HULKAGEDDON who enjoy the occasional gank especially when prizes are involved.

But there are others who do nothing but ganking and call themselves PVPers. Even showing up on the forums occasionally asking for restrictions to be placed on CONCORD, or for content to be added to force carebears into low sec. Just to give them more easy targets. The same players who constantly complain about no good PVP content. There is loads of PVP content in EVE you just need to know where to look for it. True PVP content though has as much danger for the attacker as the defender, unlike ganking where ther is no chance of the defender to survive, they usually don't even have guns.

These are the gankers I am referring to. The ones who have no clue what real PVP is all about, and have never engaged in a fight they were not 200% sure to win. The players who do the same activities as carebears to grind isk but think ganking other carebears makes them PVPers. These are the asshats that ruin most PVP MMO games. the same guys who camp spawn points, and mission/quest drop points killing players several levels lower than themselves. The same guys who use cheat codes and hacks in FPS games as it is the only way they can get their name on the boards. Guys who would absolutely fail in any sort of PVP activity that was not stacked their favor.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2012-04-23 17:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychotic Monk
I've noticed a problem with the logic of many of the posters here. The issue seems to be that many think that unless the two pilots in an engagement are equal then it's not really PvP

Without getting too Sun Tzu on you, any engagement is PvP, and if it's one-sided, that's just because the actual mashing-F1 part isn't the the point at which the engagement starts

Let's look at a blob-on-blob, which, while many would argue is boring, I think everyone can agree is most certainly PvP

So, the things that determine the outcome in the engagement include, but are not limited to
-number
-fleet compositio
-FCin

However, there are many things that are outside the scope of that one grid that also determine the fight, such as
-Moral
-Reimbursement programs (effecting pilot risk tolerance
-Spyin
-Use of time zone differenc
-Recruitment practice
-etc

So, the engagement isn't the competition, it's just the conclusion

By that same token, wardecs, ganks, massivly one-sided gatecamps and the smartbombing Rohk that sits in Rancer are all engagements that aren't decided on the field, but rather in the fitting window, recruitment channel and the d-scan window

OP is winning his contests, as he is accomplishing his goals and the mission invaders aren't. The hulk that tanks or watches d-scan or does anything else to make sure that he doesn't get ganked is winning his contests. When I go on safari, the corp that looks at my killboard or corp history or bio and decides that it's a bad idea to recruit me because I'll kill their dudes is winning their contest

Carebears might think that they're whining because they're forced into comp in the first place, but they're actually whining because their failure to prepare is making them lose their contests.

Edit: OP, take back your filthy space-like right now. I have a very low opinion of you and don't want your wretched, crumpled little likes.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Lord Dravius
Doomheim
#147 - 2012-04-24 14:50:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Dravius
The forum randomly decided there was a problem with my bbcode even though it worked fine before the edit. I can't get it to work so **** it.
Five Thirty
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#148 - 2012-04-24 15:03:13 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
Then maybe you should be playing a game that only has consensual PvP. Maybe you and the rest of your little carebear circle jerk **** buddies should play a game that fits what you want in a game instead of repeatedly joining games that are the opposite of what you want and crying like a ***** until the game is ruined for the players who actually had the common sense to play a game they liked in the first place. Your kind won. 99% of the MMO market is full of games designed for people just like you. Go play them instead of whining until the developers ruin one of the only games left designed for people like me.


It took a while, but I finally got some hardcore tears. Well done Lord Dravius, well done.
Eryn Velasquez
#149 - 2012-04-24 15:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eryn Velasquez
sry for that

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Eryn Velasquez
#150 - 2012-04-24 15:05:10 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
The title of part two sums it up nicely; "Fun is for children. Adventure is for adults.".

Part 1

Part 2


I agree with this article nearly 100%.

Quote:
By death what we are really talking about is the concept of risk. This can be distilled even further: dying in a MMO is all about risking the investment of your time.


As for the T3-Cruisers, where you lose a certain part of your SP when you die - that's a risc. But not a calculated loss of a cheap fitted ganking dessy.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Eryn Velasquez
#151 - 2012-04-24 15:05:41 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
The title of part two sums it up nicely; "Fun is for children. Adventure is for adults.".


I agree with this article nearly 100%.

Quote:
By death what we are really talking about is the concept of risk. This can be distilled even further: dying in a MMO is all about risking the investment of your time.


As for the T3-Cruisers, where you lose a certain part of your SP when you die - that's a risc. But not a calculated loss of a cheap fitted ganking dessy.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Lord Dravius
Doomheim
#152 - 2012-04-24 15:10:45 UTC
Five Thirty wrote:
It took a while, but I finally got some hardcore tears. Well done Lord Dravius, well done.

See? I knew deep in your timid little carebear heart you were capable of some form of aggression. I'm so proud of you.
Five Thirty
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#153 - 2012-04-24 15:13:55 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
See? I knew deep in your timid little carebear heart you were capable of some form of aggression. I'm so proud of you.


You did a poor job making the transition from butthurt to condescending, please try again.
Connaght Badasaz
Lewis and Clark Inc.
#154 - 2012-04-25 02:49:33 UTC
I do what I want, when I want. I have not yet wanted to grief anyone; not my style. Yay for you if it is.

Bears make the mistake of being easy meat. If you weren't easy, many folks wouldn't bother and you would be safe. So in a weird way you are the cause of your own grief.

If you absolutely hate PvP, be absolutely ready to enforce it. Get pissed off and shoot back, not whine and run away.

Take arrows in the forehead, never the back
Valkyrie D'ark
Armed Resistance Movement
#155 - 2012-04-25 05:32:51 UTC
Not sure what you're referring to really. If this post is in response to people constantly harassing your "carebear" alliance then it's not that they cant stand the fact that you wont PVP. It's that they're no good at pvp themselves so prey themselves on unworthy easy targets like yourself.
You cannot avoid PVP in the sense that other people can and always will affect you in EVE whether you like it or not. Someone wardecing you and forcing you to stay docked for a week IS PVP, even if they never saw you in space. I suggest you find other people who do like to PVP to protect your assets. In EVE, if you build something great you should be willing to defend it. Whether it is through your own force, through hired mercs, or through friends and contacts you have acquired. After all, that is the whole point of the Alliance, invite a pvp prone corp to yours and supply them with discount ships and mods in exchange for protection.

If that option is also distasteful to you, then I'm sorry but you're out of luck. This is an MMO.. Massively Multiplayer game and EVE is an MMO built on principle of working together with other people and being able to affect and interact with one other, even if the interaction is undesirable.

In any case, Inferno expansion should be perfect for corps/alliances like yours. Good luck!