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Is Suicide ganking real PvP

First post
Author
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#21 - 2012-04-23 01:31:12 UTC
It is a valid mechanic in the game. It permits the target kills rights. But in my opinion, it is not in the spirit of PVP per se. As much as I absolutely despise it, it has its place. (Although we could have done without the T3 BC gankmobiles, they cemented the ganker in place forever.)

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#22 - 2012-04-23 02:09:54 UTC
Real pvp is fighting on highsec stations with a fleet of guardian alts.
Or roaming lowsec with a fleet of falcon alts.
Or pressing F1 when the FC tells you to, along with 200 other people.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2012-04-23 02:37:18 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
It is a valid mechanic in the game. It permits the target kills rights. But in my opinion, it is not in the spirit of PVP per se. As much as I absolutely despise it, it has its place. (Although we could have done without the T3 BC gankmobiles, they cemented the ganker in place forever.)


The t3 BC gankboats cost a lot more than the old tempest gankboats used to.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-04-23 02:52:07 UTC
Another way of looking at this is, if market trading and resource hunting was to be PvP then both PvP and PvE servers would share that PvP component. So those do not define if it's a PvP or PvE server.


So the only thing that defines if a server is PvP or PvE would be combat, and people do associate PvP with combat.



Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#25 - 2012-04-23 02:52:43 UTC
its PvAFKP

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-04-23 02:54:13 UTC
Ofc,it's PvP. About ehonor and stuff I wouldn't know.
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2012-04-23 02:54:14 UTC
Hatt0ri Hanz0 wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
I dont know to be honest but would the statement below class as PvP


"Opening up on that Hulk knowing that it will be blown to pieces unless Concord arrives in time"

Thanks for your Imput


Yes it is PVP, albeit risk free pvp. Confirming the irony of nerdguy telling someone to HTFU.

Excuse me?
What about the risk of losing all your mods, losing all the hulk mods, and the chance someone could be very clever/fast and nab your pod?

There should be a rather awesome pic here

Nikodiemus
Etsala Empire
Etsala Legion
#28 - 2012-04-23 03:14:04 UTC
No, suicide ganking is not real pvp. Real pvp requires balls and the knowledge that you could lose what you are flying through the defenders actions, not an easily excusable concord kill. Real pvp is in small or solo gangs that roam for kills or ballzy fleets that attack and win when they may be outnumbered or not have the apparent advantage.

Suicide ganking is just an unskilled way to play the numbers and get a momentary rush, if that, from combat and then drink the loser's tears.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#29 - 2012-04-23 03:24:49 UTC
Ganking is indeed Player versus Player: one player is acting against another player. In the strict sense of "versus" there is no requirement for consent or reciprosity. Whether you believe that suicide ganking a Hulk with a Catalyst counts as fair is a different question.

EVE is a PvP game, and you consent to PvP when you log in: apart from sitting in the station doing nothing there is very little in game that doesn't put you at risk of being attacked by another player. The other players will underbid your sell orders, overbid your buys, suicide gank your freighter, suicide gank your mining ship, gate camp your lowsec or nullsec entry point, or call you names on the forums.

Watching people get ganker right next to me in Brapelille is a little startling though: the presence of multiple TEARS members in system should be enough warning to folks to either tank their Hulks or avoid mining altogether. Sure, Ice Harvesting is a slow, boring process. But keep your D-Scan open, tank your mining ship, and GTFO when you see that TEARS guy sitting next to you for five minutes.
ILikeMarkets
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-04-23 04:15:21 UTC
Suicide ganking is where the crap PvPers go to get kill mails, since they are too afraid to step outside into lowsec/0.0 with the big boys. :)

Proof that capital ships are rare in EVE: http://imgur.com/gallery/jJJE1

Veronica Kerrigan
VKCorp 2.0
#31 - 2012-04-23 05:24:22 UTC
Player versus Player. Technically, because the hulk could have drones, or ECM, or anything for counter attacking, it could be PvP. One of my buddies killed a hound in his hulk when it found him in a pre bookmarked grav site. It can be PvP, therefore it is.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-04-23 06:08:08 UTC
no it isn't but neither is station or gate camping.
Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-04-23 06:16:58 UTC
CvC (Coward vs Carebear). It's low level PvP like gate camping and far away from real PvP. Without the different levels of PvP EVE would be boring Blink
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#34 - 2012-04-23 06:49:13 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
I dont know to be honest but would the statement below class as PvP


"Opening up on that Hulk knowing that it will be blown to pieces unless Concord arrives in time"

Thanks for your Imput



Yes. PvP doesn't stop being PvP because one of the Ps doesn't want to accept that another P can come and v him.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-04-23 07:17:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Yes. PvP doesn't stop being PvP because one of the Ps doesn't want to accept that another P can come and v him.


Ganking isn't real pvp. Gankers are usually same people who wardec industrial corps in hisec for easy targets. These wardecs are sometimes very funny because if there is even a small chance that those "helpless Hulk pilots" bite back griefers stay in complete safety in their hangars. They aren't prepared to face a gang of Hulk pilots in Rifters.

Fear of the Rifter!
Degren
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-04-23 07:19:36 UTC
But seriously....

Player vs player.

Doesn't have to be (and never, ever will be) balanced.

Hello, hello again.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#37 - 2012-04-23 07:23:42 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Yes. PvP doesn't stop being PvP because one of the Ps doesn't want to accept that another P can come and v him.


Ganking isn't real pvp. Gankers are usually same people who wardec industrial corps in hisec for easy targets. These wardecs are sometimes very funny because if there is even a small chance that those "helpless Hulk pilots" bite back griefers stay in complete safety in their hangars. They aren't prepared to face a gang of Hulk pilots in Rifters.

Fear of the Rifter!


If you want to say that it's not the kind of pvp you like, that's fine. But it's obviously wrong to say it isn't pvp.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Rico Minali
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-04-23 08:23:36 UTC
It is technically player verses player interaction, but it isnt a fight. It isnt combat.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Francisco Bizzaro
#39 - 2012-04-23 08:25:13 UTC
Yes, it is PvP ... followed by some vigorous EvP.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-04-23 10:24:38 UTC
It is real pvp. And at the same time, it's not.

I approve of suicide-ganking as a tool to keep idiocy in check. if a Hulk without even a damage control get suicide ganked, I'll applaud. If a faction BS with a 10b fit, or an afk industrial with an expensive cargo get the same treatment, I like it.

But, while suicide ganking is technically pvp, it manage to remove the very meaning of it. The essence of pvp is to measure yourself against other players, to prove to yourself (or others, if Epeen is a motivation to you) that you are more skilled, smarter, more dangerous. That you are the king of the jungle, so to speak. From that point of view, suicide-ganking is only a form of income and doesn't deserve to be called pvp.
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