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Missile PvP question.

Author
Kaiirii
Mong's Marauders
#1 - 2012-04-19 20:39:15 UTC
Hey there.

I just started out here in EvE and was thinking of joining RvB to learn the basics of PvP.
I noticed that everyone is mainly flying Minimatar and those who I asked said to reroll for Minimatar or Gallente.

So I'm going to just completely ignore them and reach out to the Caldari Pilots here.
Tips on PvP with missiles?

I guess if RvB is a lot of frigate fights I would be in a kestrel or Harpy.


Can some seasoned misslie PvPers share some secrets to help me pop those nasty rifters! Pirate

Thanks.
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
#2 - 2012-04-19 20:50:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Korvus Falek
Rockets are awesome, imo. The downside is that if the ships are flying fast, you will do less damage, due to explosion velocity. Also, missiles dont have a falloff, its all within a specific range, compared to an optimal with falloff. There is a small delay in applying that damage due to flight time of missiles compared to instant with lasers or projectiles.

I know you asked for Caldari, but Im not that. Oh well. Anyhow, fly and use what you enjoy using instead of the FOTM crap.
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#3 - 2012-04-19 20:56:25 UTC
Rockets are a fine frig weapon, especially when you have a web so you can orbit the other frig at 7km where its small guns are doing minimal damage if they can hit you at all...while your rockets do max damage :D

People like to lean towards Minmatar because they are fast ships that can escape combat when its not in their favor (also rifters are very flexible ships) or towards gallente because they are capable of FACE MELING frig damage...however a properly fit and flown Merlin (or better yet hookbill!) can and will murder these ships...

Standard missile launchers have limited use in frig fights (mostly kiting interceptors) but can be deadly when properly used.

EvE is a game of counters and counters to counters. There are very few "win" conditions that apply in all scenarios. The general preference of pilots is to go for ships that either escape fights or if they like to commit 100% ships that do the "most" damage.

You can succeed with any of the races in PvP you just need to play to your strengths and do not let the enemy play to theirs. Missiles let you project damage up to about 10% of their maximum theoretical range, they do not miss...ever...but they do less damage to faster targets or targets with smaller sig radius. In my opinion, range and damage projection is the most useful asset missiles give you. Their Damage tends to be less than comparable guns, and their alpha damage is good.

If going for PVP the following are probably the most useful missile systems:
Rockets (Frigs-Merlin (split wepons)/Kestrel/Hookbill)
Light Assault Missile Launchers (Caracal)
Heavy Missile Launchers (Drake)
Torpedo (Raven)



Kaiirii
Mong's Marauders
#4 - 2012-04-19 21:08:34 UTC
Dark Pangolin wrote:
Rockets are a fine frig weapon, especially when you have a web so you can orbit the other frig at 7km where its small guns are doing minimal damage if they can hit you at all...while your rockets do max damage :D

People like to lean towards Minmatar because they are fast ships that can escape combat when its not in their favor (also rifters are very flexible ships) or towards gallente because they are capable of FACE MELING frig damage...however a properly fit and flown Merlin (or better yet hookbill!) can and will murder these ships...

Standard missile launchers have limited use in frig fights (mostly kiting interceptors) but can be deadly when properly used.

EvE is a game of counters and counters to counters. There are very few "win" conditions that apply in all scenarios. The general preference of pilots is to go for ships that either escape fights or if they like to commit 100% ships that do the "most" damage.

You can succeed with any of the races in PvP you just need to play to your strengths and do not let the enemy play to theirs. Missiles let you project damage up to about 10% of their maximum theoretical range, they do not miss...ever...but they do less damage to faster targets or targets with smaller sig radius. In my opinion, range and damage projection is the most useful asset missiles give you. Their Damage tends to be less than comparable guns, and their alpha damage is good.

If going for PVP the following are probably the most useful missile systems:
Rockets (Frigs-Merlin (split wepons)/Kestrel/Hookbill)
Light Assault Missile Launchers (Caracal)
Heavy Missile Launchers (Drake)
Torpedo (Raven)





Thanks so much!

Thats exactly what I was looking for =)
Time to skill for t2 rockets and pwn some Rifters! <3
Dark Pangolin
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#5 - 2012-04-19 21:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Pangolin
Kaiirii wrote:


Thanks so much!

Thats exactly what I was looking for =)
Time to skill for t2 rockets and pwn some Rifters! <3


Enjoy! Just remember to fit a Scram+Web and orbit at your maximum effective range :) (should be about 7km)

Here are some old Caldari Favorites to work towards!

Good old afterburner brawler...orbit at 7km

[Merlin, The Wizard]

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
75mm Gatling Rail II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Medium Shield Extender II
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I


Fire Support ship...skirt the fight at 40-45km...shoot what your friends are pointing and kill a lot of frigs in 2 volleys :D....just remember to run away a lot... because you are paper thin :D a lot of fun to fly !

[Kestrel, Kessy]

Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile
Standard Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile

1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter
Parallel Weapon Navigation Transmitter

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Overdrive Injector System II

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#6 - 2012-04-19 21:56:12 UTC
Caldari is not exclusively the missile race. The Merlin and the Harpy are both hybrid boats. The Harpy also happens to be my favorite ship, though you would have to train hybrids rather than missiles to be competent with it.

Anyway, just a couple minor notes with missiles:
1) Exploit your versatility. Rockets reach out really far for max damage. If you're fighting an autocannon or blaster frigate then keep out near the edge of your range to sharply reduce their damage. If you can't kite them, then maximize your angular velocity relative to them. Maximizing angular velocity will make it harder for them to hit you, but because you are using missiles you will not be any worse at hitting them.

2) With frigates specifically, try to pack a web or have a friend with a web. A t1 frigate moving at full speed with an afterburner going will take SIGNIFICANTLY less damage from rockets. On the other hand, if they have an MWD going, or no propulsion mod going, or are webbed, you'll hit for full damage every time.

ACE81
Sacred Sacrifice
#7 - 2012-04-23 06:45:51 UTC
This is a good ship once you have the skills for it.

[Merlin, fit4rvb]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

Stasis Webifier II
1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Scrambler II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

Not my taste but was still effective.

[Merlin, Merlin/Blaster import 1]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Medium Shield Extender II
1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I

Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-04-23 08:05:52 UTC
At the point you can aford and fit it, Hookbills are awesome a very good PvP ship.

If I remember correctly:


High:

Rcket launcher T2 3x

Mid:

X5 Prototype Engine Enervator x1
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I x1
Warpdisrupter T2 x1
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction x1
1mn afterburner T2 x1

Low

Ballistic Control System II
Damage controle T2

Riggs

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I x1
Small Core Defense Field Extender I x2
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-04-23 11:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Halete
You can get into a Griffin pretty darn soon and ruin any Frigate engagements, ever so long as you're fleeting. Not exactly missile pew but you'll be damn appreciated in that Caldari boat. Getting told to re-roll is pretty lame, in my opinion.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-23 21:36:46 UTC
Missiles are fine for pvp and typically have better range than equvalent turret systems. That would be great if you could just hang out a 30 km's and ping on them but if you have the speed to do that and they realize they can't catch or hit you, they'll just fly away. If they can catch you then you've already lost that range advantage and your dps is probably excrement compared to a turret ship's. You can fit rockets which will give you a nice dps bump but to use them you have to be in point range and in most ships in web range. Fine, you didn't want them to run away before you poped them anyway so you put on a disrupter/scram, probably back off to a afterburner and if you want to get that good paper dps out of your rockets in game a web. Well on a caldari ship, that means you have to give up the idea of a shield tank and plate it. I'm not saying you'll never win a fight that way, but you are at a disadvantage. If you are willing to Pvp in a faction or T2 frigate, then the Hookbill is a darn good ship with extended Rocket range the ability to fit 2 webs and the speed to dictate range, the Blapy does ridiculous DPS if you can get in range and the crow also gets extended range on the rockets but can't fit the ewar or tank of a hookbill.
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#11 - 2012-04-23 22:49:02 UTC
Quote:
Hey there.

I just started out here in EvE and was thinking of joining RvB to learn the basics of PvP.
I noticed that everyone is mainly flying Minimatar and those who I asked said to reroll for Minimatar or Gallente.

So I'm going to just completely ignore them and reach out to the Caldari Pilots here.
Tips on PvP with missiles?

I guess if RvB is a lot of frigate fights I would be in a kestrel or Harpy.


Can some seasoned misslie PvPers share some secrets to help me pop those nasty rifters!

Thanks.


RvB is good for learning the basics but can teach some bad habits due to the fights being a little arranged. It is a very noob friendly system though with everyone being able to pvp no matter what skill level.

As for rolling Caldari as a PVP choice....its great. If you can learn the problems that some Caldari boats have and how to compensate for them they are brilliant ships.

In my opinion Rockets are the second best frigate weapon behind Hybrids for Frigate on Frigate fighting. This is mostly due to the boats they are attached to on the t2 level (Hawk, Hookbill and Vengeance) all are great frigates and in the Vengeance and Hawks cases have reasonably high dps with great range (for a close range weapon) and with the webs decent applied dps as well.
The Hawk and Hookbill share the same slot layout with each having advantages over the other, Hawks have the better tank and DPS and the Hookbill having the speed. Both are amazing scram range brawlers thanks to their ability to fit dual webs, allowing them to dictate range on a high number of frigates. The Hookbill can also be used in a similar anti-interceptor role that the old dual prop taranis's were used in, thanks to their decent speed and 5 mids you can get mwd+AB+web+scram and still fit an MSE for tank.

http://korgshouse.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12872306 - Dual Prop Hookbill fit (This fit can also be used on the Hawk but its slower)
http://korgshouse.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12314631 - Dual Web Hawk (similar to Hookbill fit)

Once you get fairly skilled in fitting the Caldari frigates you can experiment and try the different active tanks on the Hawk or even Armour fit them with dual webs and a td which really fucks of other frigate pilots.

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]

Angry Onions
Fast Eddy's X-ploding Diner
#12 - 2012-04-23 22:59:54 UTC
I've had rather good success with a HAM Caracal/Drake. I kinda apply Minmatar mindset to flying a drake, which has deadly results (for them). Granted, I can't out-kite a kitecane, but I don't need to. As for frigs, I can mail you a hookbill fit that can **** facehole. My suggestion would be to fly a split weapon boat like the Typhoon with instant dps (autocannons) and constant high alpha(torpedoes). But what ever you do, do it for the lolz, its a game :)

S H I T P O S T I N G

drdxie
#13 - 2012-04-23 23:34:18 UTC
Not everyone flies minmatar in RVB, I had great success in a punisher with AC's. have a look at their KB to get ides. Del flies a pretty mean merlin

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

Kaiirii
Mong's Marauders
#14 - 2012-04-23 23:38:42 UTC
Korg Tronix wrote:
Quote:
Hey there.

I just started out here in EvE and was thinking of joining RvB to learn the basics of PvP.
I noticed that everyone is mainly flying Minimatar and those who I asked said to reroll for Minimatar or Gallente.

So I'm going to just completely ignore them and reach out to the Caldari Pilots here.
Tips on PvP with missiles?

I guess if RvB is a lot of frigate fights I would be in a kestrel or Harpy.


Can some seasoned misslie PvPers share some secrets to help me pop those nasty rifters!

Thanks.


RvB is good for learning the basics but can teach some bad habits due to the fights being a little arranged. It is a very noob friendly system though with everyone being able to pvp no matter what skill level.

As for rolling Caldari as a PVP choice....its great. If you can learn the problems that some Caldari boats have and how to compensate for them they are brilliant ships.

In my opinion Rockets are the second best frigate weapon behind Hybrids for Frigate on Frigate fighting. This is mostly due to the boats they are attached to on the t2 level (Hawk, Hookbill and Vengeance) all are great frigates and in the Vengeance and Hawks cases have reasonably high dps with great range (for a close range weapon) and with the webs decent applied dps as well.
The Hawk and Hookbill share the same slot layout with each having advantages over the other, Hawks have the better tank and DPS and the Hookbill having the speed. Both are amazing scram range brawlers thanks to their ability to fit dual webs, allowing them to dictate range on a high number of frigates. The Hookbill can also be used in a similar anti-interceptor role that the old dual prop taranis's were used in, thanks to their decent speed and 5 mids you can get mwd+AB+web+scram and still fit an MSE for tank.

http://korgshouse.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12872306 - Dual Prop Hookbill fit (This fit can also be used on the Hawk but its slower)
http://korgshouse.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12314631 - Dual Web Hawk (similar to Hookbill fit)

Once you get fairly skilled in fitting the Caldari frigates you can experiment and try the different active tanks on the Hawk or even Armour fit them with dual webs and a td which really fucks of other frigate pilots.



Thanks this was very helpful.

Glad the caldari vets are helping me out xD
Valkyrie D'ark
Armed Resistance Movement
#15 - 2012-04-25 06:53:46 UTC
the single most important thing playing to your advantage with missiles is not having to track your target like you do with turrets. As mentioned above.... orbit like crazy and let the missiles do their thing.
Also FOFs arent very popular but they work. If you can use them, doesn't hurt having a few FOFs with you and defenders as well.
Generally faction ammo is better overall than t2.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2012-04-25 23:46:54 UTC
Dark Pangolin wrote:


If going for PVP the following are probably the most useful missile systems:
Rockets (Frigs-Merlin (split wepons)/Kestrel/Hookbill)
Light Assault Missile Launchers (Caracal)
Heavy Missile Launchers (Drake)
Torpedo (Raven)



Heavy Assault Missile (HAM) Drakes do far more DPS and are more useful in PVP situations than Heavies...for the exception of perhaps nullsec PVP. Any ship with a decent shield recharge rate will be able to tank Heavies...and besides you have to be in tackle range anyways if in low/nullsec unless you have tacklers.
Angry Onions
Fast Eddy's X-ploding Diner
#17 - 2012-04-26 06:29:56 UTC
Also, my favorite thing about missiles, is that they do consistent damage. Obvious statement is obvious, I know. But jus' saying :)

S H I T P O S T I N G

Sub Chunker
Monkey Business Machines
The Council of Yggdrasil
#18 - 2012-05-22 13:52:26 UTC
I'm relatively new to New Eden as well.

What exactly is the reason why missiles are considered no good for PVP? I am just hazy on the details.

Chunk by chunk.

Cletus Graeme
Shai Dorsai
#19 - 2012-05-22 15:38:35 UTC
Sub Chunker wrote:
What exactly is the reason why missiles are considered no good for PVP? I am just hazy on the details.


Essentially it comes down to the fact that missiles take time to reach their target - unlike turrets which "insta-hit".

This "flight time" to target means that while they do good volley damage their DPS is low compared to guns. It also means the target can avoid your damage by warping before being hit (unless tackled).

Also in large fights (or ganks) the target may die before your missiles reach them - which is annoying.

Amarr (Khanid) missile boats get around these disadvantages by being up close and personal brawlers (e.g. Malediction, Sacrilege) but this confines them to using only close range missile types (e.g. Rockets and HAMs)

Caldari are more versatile missile users but only a few of their ships have bonuses to missile ROF or velocity (e.g. Raven) which somewhat compensate for the above drawbacks. They more commonly receive a kinetic damage bonus which is less useful (but is nasty for Minmatar opponents!).

Missiles have several advantages

- Choice of all damage types
- No cap use
- No tracking (i.e. they always hit)

However, to balance things out CCP reduced the damage that they actually do by making it depend on the size and speed of the target (velocity and signature radius) so missiles rarely do FULL damage to equivalently sized targets UNLESS used in conjunction with a TARGET PAINTER. There are more details about this elsewhere - it's too complicated to explain quickly :)
Mortis Betruger
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-05-25 10:56:19 UTC
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