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EVE is EASY...Money

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DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#1 - 2012-04-22 03:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: DelBoy Trades
On (what I believe to be) their latest video, Garmon explains how they will be going to pay people for their PVP videos. I assume they want exclusivity of these videos. So what we're seeing here is Garmon and Co. will be charging you for....Youtube. At the moment we see everyones PVP videos for free, what Hydra are suggesting is we get the decent free content on youtube taken away from us, unless we're willing to pay them $5 a month. I must urge people to boycott EIE, alternatively, they have no copyright claim on any of the videos that will be "exclusive" to subscribers, as it belongs to CCP, so I urge any subscribers to download all of their videos and upload to youtube for everyone to enjoy for free.

Damn nature, you scary!
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-04-22 04:16:16 UTC
If they were charging for youtube, then you would be paying EIE to access the youtube website.

What you're paying for is access to educational videos created by the hard work of these guys. A lot of people need a reality check about this stuff. Just because it is a video game does not mean everything has to be free. Should the Golf Pro give all his lessons for free, should the tennis instructor train new players for nothing, should fisherman who create videos on how to fish give them away for free? EVE is a video game yes, but video games do not exist in some alternate reality (even if they create an alternate reality within themselves to some extent), they exist in the real world. There is nothing wrong with asking for money in return for labour, in fact that is exactly how Capitalism works. There is no commitment here, if you do not want to pay to see their videos then fine, don't pay. But why do you have some sort of inherent right to their own work?

Btw, as far as I'm aware you're not part of CCP's legal team, so I don't see how you can make such authoritative claims about copyright.

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#3 - 2012-04-22 06:20:30 UTC
EVE is probably the only place where people think it's OK to scam someone of their isk, whereas asking for an honest payment is 'unacceptable'.

HTFU.

The more I think about it, the more I like this new way of distribution. The only thing I'd change is giving out some free access codes to those of the community, who proved to be thankful viewers. Those not even bothering to leave a shortest comment even for a top-notch PvP movie deserve nothing, but sheer business relationship.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#4 - 2012-04-22 06:24:59 UTC
EVE is Easy is already closed. Seems the guy behind getting it started was cheated out of his part of the Real Life ISKies and appears to have been ripped off by Garmon & Co..

Website is now closed..

Quote:

Unfortunately, due to dishonest behavior on the part of Garmon attempting to steal from the other partners. I can no longer allow EVE is Easy is operate. If he will steal from a business partner he will steal from customers and I will have NO part of that.



I STRONGLY URGE EVERYONE to seek a refund by contacting Paypal as quickly as possible. The longer you wait the harder it will be to receive your refund.

The idea for EVE is Easy was to create a valuable resource for EVE players to enjoy their game time more. I wanted to bring on more PVPers so that I could deliver content to EVE players at a faster rate. In exchange I gave Garmon, Willl Adama, and Duncan Tanner equal ownership of it with me. ( 25% each )
After a very successful launch last week, Garmon refused to pay anyone and everytime he agreed to pay, he postponed and changed the terms. Until finally his terms were for him to give me just my share of only day one’s profits and in exchange I would forfeit all ownership.
This was dishonest and unacceptable. I had put years of thought into this and months of effort, sometimes working as much as 18 hours a day. I could not allow him to steal from me and I will do whatever I can to keep him from stealing from you.
It’s important to know that Garmon controls all customer money right now. I could have accepted their offer and quietly disappeared but that would be wrong. So I gave up any chance at a very large amount of real life cash to warn you.
I am beyond upset by this, my business experience allowed Garmon and the others to play EVE as a job. In exchange they cheated me and if you give them the chance they will cheat you to.

Again, please ask Paypal for a refund RIGHT NOW!
Abbadon21
Peekabooy
ROMANIA Renegades
#5 - 2012-04-22 07:56:19 UTC
Mutnin wrote:
EVE is Easy is already closed. Seems the guy behind getting it started was cheated out of his part of the Real Life ISKies and appears to have been ripped off by Garmon & Co..

Website is now closed..

Quote:

*snip*


Also http://www.eve-is-easy.com/ is up and running, and Garmon sent a mail trying to explain the situation to everyone who is on the mailing list.

Seems the mail is in pastebin-form here: http://pastebin.com/3Rjj3wjE

Looked to me like both Garmon and Abbadon21 made mistakes, said stupid things and then the whole thing escalated into ultimatums from both sides.

Personally I'm happy I'm not a paying member (yet) but I'm very much waiting to see where this goes. Might try it out for the $5 a month for some time if it ever starts working again.
Liam Mirren
#6 - 2012-04-22 08:49:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Liam Mirren
One has to wonder which sane person would get into any sort of business agreement with that Chad guy. Reading that chat log he makes him look like a clown, a whiner and a fraud. Having said that any sane person would probably think "this can only end badly" before even starting that venture.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Elenor Kharne
ergo optima
#7 - 2012-04-22 09:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenor Kharne
They sound really down to earth right now in their new website unlike before. I kinda like it and it feels much more honest, although I might never pay for this.
You have to consider that they are making much more than "instructional videos" when you sign up. Like fleets with direct feedback what went wrong/good and stuff. Therefore i think it's legit to ask for some money in return.

That Abbadon guy. That chatlog.
Hope you guys can sort this out in a way you will still be able to pursue your vision.
Peekabooy
ROMANIA Renegades
#8 - 2012-04-22 09:57:53 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
One has to wonder which sane person would get into any sort of business agreement with that Chad guy. Reading that chat log he makes him look like a clown, a whiner and a fraud. Having said that any sane person would probably think "this can only end badly" before even starting that venture.

To be honest Garmon's attitude and way of communicating doesn't seem much better.

But I hope it all works out.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#9 - 2012-04-22 10:40:59 UTC
i bet chad needed more money for drugs....
Khanid Voltar
#10 - 2012-04-22 10:58:24 UTC
For someone that claims to be so experienced in running businesses I can only conclude that they are all mickey mouse businesses.

Irrelevant of what was or was not agreed:

1. Abbadon wasn't trying to get all 4 partners to agree to it, he was trying to get the one who held the keys to paypal to agree to his demands. That isn't the way you do business in the real world.

2. Abbadons valuation of a 1 month business based on potential earnings over the next year was completely insane. Who would ever buy a business as a going concern that has been running for a single month for the full price??? Especially given its present uncertain future with CCP's concerns.

3. Abbadon claimed to be concerned about the players but all that could be seen was him demanding his money share. If more than his projected (5%?) cancellations happened the owner of the paypal account would have been totally screwed. All he used was 'his extensive experience' as proof of this, but his actions do no imply any sort of extensive experience/

4. On the new splash page for eveiseasy Abbadon tried to use plurality to imply that he was not the only partner in this situation. This is such weak arguing style it is untrue, if Abbadon was really concerned with the truth coming out he would not be trying to make implications that so far have no basis in truth.

5. Some sort of partnership agreement should always be drawn up in a business, so that in times of disagreement it can be referred to and all the partners can vote based on new circumstances. Clearly that wasn't the case and while all partners should take responsibility for this, I can't help but feel that person who claimed to have all the experience was most at fault.
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#11 - 2012-04-22 13:29:12 UTC
Laktos, I think you missed my point. I feel no entitlement to the Hydra educational videos, that's not what I'm saying. Garmon's offer to buy people's videos is what worries me. For instance, when you release your next video, you have 2 options a) Put on Youtube for everyone to enjoy b) Sell to EIE for some iskies, allowing only the $5 "elite" to see it. I'm worried that those of us not willing to pay Hydra for something we already get are going to lose out in this deal.

Damn nature, you scary!
Elenor Kharne
ergo optima
#12 - 2012-04-22 13:47:58 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
Laktos, I think you missed my point. I feel no entitlement to the Hydra educational videos, that's not what I'm saying. Garmon's offer to buy people's videos is what worries me. For instance, when you release your next video, you have 2 options a) Put on Youtube for everyone to enjoy b) Sell to EIE for some iskies, allowing only the $5 "elite" to see it. I'm worried that those of us not willing to pay Hydra for something we already get are going to lose out in this deal.


Would not happen. Because the offer is limited to instructional/educational videos and not the ones for your entertainment.
Laktos
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-04-22 13:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Laktos
DelBoy Trades wrote:
Laktos, I think you missed my point. I feel no entitlement to the Hydra educational videos, that's not what I'm saying. Garmon's offer to buy people's videos is what worries me. For instance, when you release your next video, you have 2 options a) Put on Youtube for everyone to enjoy b) Sell to EIE for some iskies, allowing only the $5 "elite" to see it. I'm worried that those of us not willing to pay Hydra for something we already get are going to lose out in this deal.


OK. But as far as I'm aware EIE is looking for educational, commentary style videos, not normal music soundtrack videos. So some people who become heavy contributors to the site might spend a bit less time making publicly available pvp vids, but overall things will continue as normal with video makers making and releasing vids just as they have always done.

Edit: Elenor beat me to it and put it much more succintly above :)

Latest PVP Video: Perseverance

Sard Caid does not endorse this message.
Demetri Slavic
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#14 - 2012-04-22 14:56:14 UTC
All you need to know regarding EIE is this:


Quote:
CCP Guard wrote:
Selling anything that uses the EVE Intellectual Property for real life cash is against the rules. EVE related services can, however, be sold for ISK. I'm not going to comment on whether that will always be the case, but it is today. Just letting everyone know.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1133605#post1133605


Therefore w/e they do, selling the service for RL cash is Illegal. Pretty simple.

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Hoarr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-04-22 16:45:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoarr
Demetri Slavic wrote:
All you need to know regarding EIE is this:


Quote:
CCP Guard wrote:
Selling anything that uses the EVE Intellectual Property for real life cash is against the rules. EVE related services can, however, be sold for ISK. I'm not going to comment on whether that will always be the case, but it is today. Just letting everyone know.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1133605#post1133605


Therefore w/e they do, selling the service for RL cash is Illegal. Pretty simple.



^This. I honestly cannot believe this is even a discussion. RMT is against the rules. Period. I would really not be surprised if CCP came down HARD on these guys to make an example of them.

If they are feeling generous, however, CCP may just make them remove the RL component of their subs fee and allow them to do it for 400m ISK/mo. In either case, it will be interesting to see what CCP does here.
Elenor Kharne
ergo optima
#16 - 2012-04-22 16:57:14 UTC
It is not that CCP were never willing to open their game for commercial use ...
Not too long ago there was this devblog which got lost at some point. And I wonder whether this might have a comeback.
Viribus
Dark Enlightenment
New Eden Alliance 99013733
#17 - 2012-04-22 19:54:15 UTC
Of course his name is Chad

watch me be a scurb and get owned
Barbens
New Eden Industrial Services
#18 - 2012-04-23 01:01:44 UTC
Garmon sent out an e-mil about all of this, which I somehow received (not a subscriber) and stated the facts and posted the chat logs.


That being said, Garmon is 100% correct in his actions. The other business partner who wanted paid when doing little to no work, is a complete idiot. Any business he runs I would avoid for risk of being defrauded.

I asked Bhallgorn if you should click this link, this is what he said...
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#19 - 2012-04-23 07:12:35 UTC
Laktos wrote:
DelBoy Trades wrote:
Laktos, I think you missed my point. I feel no entitlement to the Hydra educational videos, that's not what I'm saying. Garmon's offer to buy people's videos is what worries me. For instance, when you release your next video, you have 2 options a) Put on Youtube for everyone to enjoy b) Sell to EIE for some iskies, allowing only the $5 "elite" to see it. I'm worried that those of us not willing to pay Hydra for something we already get are going to lose out in this deal.


OK. But as far as I'm aware EIE is looking for educational, commentary style videos, not normal music soundtrack videos. So some people who become heavy contributors to the site might spend a bit less time making publicly available pvp vids, but overall things will continue as normal with video makers making and releasing vids just as they have always done.

Edit: Elenor beat me to it and put it much more succintly above :)


sooooo, you cut the music track and add a commentary. Seems legit.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#20 - 2012-04-23 14:03:10 UTC
Please note that it is not allowed to use CCP's IP for monetization without official permission. In case you want to inquire about more information about such a permission, please file a petition.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer