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In the feature storm, no mention of the Local-Chat-Intel-Gathering issue.
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Mirima Thurander
#41 - 2012-04-22 07:32:24 UTC
Revii Lagoon wrote:
If it's not broken, don't fix it. Changing local around would screw a lot of things up, small gangs would have a hard time finding each other, cloakys with cyno's would be the bane of everyone's existence, blobs would have a hard time finding out intel about enemy numbers because if they just stayed docked up, there would literally be no way to tell how many numbers the opposite side had unless you were docked in that station with them. Hell, without spies finding someone's home / staging system would be a whole lot more difficult to find out.

We all know local is a bid odd the way it is used, but if you look at how drastically the entire game would change if you tinkered with it, it's probably just better to leave it as it is.





i can fix ALL the problems you just listed with 2 items,


SPY's

and

SCOUTS

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Mirima Thurander
#42 - 2012-04-22 07:35:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Mr Kidd wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.



Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.


True story.



As the hunter, local does little to make you blind. As the prey, no local requires that you be more involved in the game than checking local for bad guys.

The fact that you consider it a handicap speaks volumes about the kind of game you play, nullbear!




Because people ganking stupid ratters is an exciting pastime that needs a revamp and is exactly what I was talking about.


I was referring to actual player versus player fighting. We don't get :goodfites: if we have no idea where the other fleets are.


I've been in a w-space system when it's been sieged. I knew exactly where the fleets were and where they came from. Lets see, 1 fleet was camping our static, one fleet was bashing our pos, another fleet was scouting a back way into/out of our system via K162 and it was 3 w-space systems deep. Our fleet was working to break up the static camp and we had two guys keeping tabs/scouting on the bad guys scouting the K162. And there were a couple of cloakies hanging around P6 looking to take on anyone not paying attention.

Now, if I can find those fleets with no local, I'm not exactly sure what your point is, nullbear. If you're implying it doesn't give you quick effortless intel, then you are correct. But don't sit here and tell everyone that it blinds you. It adds the fog of war. But, that's a good thing.




/troll
BUT THAT SOUNDS LIKE WORK!
and local is so much easier.
/troll


this man/girl/thing speaks the truth

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-04-22 07:53:25 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.



Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.


True story.



As the hunter, local does little to make you blind. As the prey, no local requires that you be more involved in the game than checking local for bad guys.

The fact that you consider it a handicap speaks volumes about the kind of game you play, nullbear!




Because people ganking stupid ratters is an exciting pastime that needs a revamp and is exactly what I was talking about.


I was referring to actual player versus player fighting. We don't get :goodfites: if we have no idea where the other fleets are.



Reset some blues and try not to suddenly forget where they live.

Seriously your excuse about not being able to find anyone if local is gone is simply pathetic. So tired of lazy people who claim to be great PvPers and when that ~good fights~ depends on some people scouting around you crumble.

This is not World of Tanks or League of Legends you moron. One does not hit a Start Match button and be handed PvP. It amazes me how insanely lazy some of you players are.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#44 - 2012-04-22 15:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.



Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.


True story.



As the hunter, local does little to make you blind. As the prey, no local requires that you be more involved in the game than checking local for bad guys.

The fact that you consider it a handicap speaks volumes about the kind of game you play, nullbear!




Because people ganking stupid ratters is an exciting pastime that needs a revamp and is exactly what I was talking about.


I was referring to actual player versus player fighting. We don't get :goodfites: if we have no idea where the other fleets are.



Reset some blues and try not to suddenly forget where they live.

Seriously your excuse about not being able to find anyone if local is gone is simply pathetic. So tired of lazy people who claim to be great PvPers and when that ~good fights~ depends on some people scouting around you crumble.

This is not World of Tanks or League of Legends you moron. One does not hit a Start Match button and be handed PvP. It amazes me how insanely lazy some of you players are.



I find it hard to believe there are people who think it should take even longer to find a good fight in eve.

Having local is far from a "start match" button.

Right now if I fly solo, I will get one decent fight about every hour and a half. If I am in a small gang of say 8 cruisers and down it will take about 4 hours. Sure we will get some ganks along the way but as far as good fights that could conceivably go either way those times are pretty good.


So how much longer do you want to have to warp scouts around looking for fights? Do you think you should have to warp around new eden for 8 hours before we get a decent pvp fight?

You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-04-22 15:50:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:

So how much longer do you want to have to warp scouts around looking for fights? Do you think you should have to warp around new eden for 8 hours before we get a decent pvp fight?

You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want?


You really don't have a clue how to scan an entire system for all undocked, uncloaked ships in less than 20 seconds if you don't have local? Wow, you really must suck.

p.s. No local increases the chance of getting fights, as the people 5 systems away haven't just docked up, cos an alt in a station reported you in a system you just passed through.
Mirima Thurander
#46 - 2012-04-22 16:01:21 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.



Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.


True story.



As the hunter, local does little to make you blind. As the prey, no local requires that you be more involved in the game than checking local for bad guys.

The fact that you consider it a handicap speaks volumes about the kind of game you play, nullbear!




Because people ganking stupid ratters is an exciting pastime that needs a revamp and is exactly what I was talking about.


I was referring to actual player versus player fighting. We don't get :goodfites: if we have no idea where the other fleets are.



Reset some blues and try not to suddenly forget where they live.

Seriously your excuse about not being able to find anyone if local is gone is simply pathetic. So tired of lazy people who claim to be great PvPers and when that ~good fights~ depends on some people scouting around you crumble.

This is not World of Tanks or League of Legends you moron. One does not hit a Start Match button and be handed PvP. It amazes me how insanely lazy some of you players are.



I find it hard to believe there are people who think it should take even longer to find a good fight in eve.

Having local is far from a "start match" button.

Right now if I fly solo, I will get one decent fight about every hour and a half. If I am in a small gang of say 8 cruisers and down it will take about 4 hours. Sure we will get some ganks along the way but as far as good fights that could conceivably go either way those times are pretty good.


So how much longer do you want to have to warp scouts around looking for fights? Do you think you should have to warp around new eden for 8 hours before we get a decent pvp fight?

You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want?






im not under standing this

No Local = No one knows there's a nute in system so no one knows to run and hide in station.

No Local = Fast reaction home defense fleets to help save the people that get jumped.

No Local = Covert ships are usefull for sneaking up on people.

but mostly

No Local = No one knows there's a nute in system so no one knows to run and hide in station.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#47 - 2012-04-22 16:21:45 UTC
Hauling Hal wrote:
Cearain wrote:

So how much longer do you want to have to warp scouts around looking for fights? Do you think you should have to warp around new eden for 8 hours before we get a decent pvp fight?

You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want?


You really don't have a clue how to scan an entire system for all undocked, uncloaked ships in less than 20 seconds if you don't have local? Wow, you really must suck.

p.s. No local increases the chance of getting fights, as the people 5 systems away haven't just docked up, cos an alt in a station reported you in a system you just passed through.



it increases the chances of getting ganks. I agree - at least until everyone stops doing pve in low and null sec.

I am assuming your new so I will also explain that scanning just gives you the ships. Without local you will not know if they are part of the same corp/alliance or how many are cloaked.

Without this information you are just flipping a coin if you engage.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#48 - 2012-04-22 16:33:33 UTC
Like i've said before, Nullbears are CCPs sacred cow. They'll make hisec and WHs more dangerous by several magnitudes before they even consider doing something that might interfere with risk free PvE in 0.0.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-04-22 16:50:43 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.



Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.


True story.



As the hunter, local does little to make you blind. As the prey, no local requires that you be more involved in the game than checking local for bad guys.

The fact that you consider it a handicap speaks volumes about the kind of game you play, nullbear!




Because people ganking stupid ratters is an exciting pastime that needs a revamp and is exactly what I was talking about.


I was referring to actual player versus player fighting. We don't get :goodfites: if we have no idea where the other fleets are.



Reset some blues and try not to suddenly forget where they live.

Seriously your excuse about not being able to find anyone if local is gone is simply pathetic. So tired of lazy people who claim to be great PvPers and when that ~good fights~ depends on some people scouting around you crumble.

This is not World of Tanks or League of Legends you moron. One does not hit a Start Match button and be handed PvP. It amazes me how insanely lazy some of you players are.



I find it hard to believe there are people who think it should take even longer to find a good fight in eve.

Having local is far from a "start match" button.

Right now if I fly solo, I will get one decent fight about every hour and a half. If I am in a small gang of say 8 cruisers and down it will take about 4 hours. Sure we will get some ganks along the way but as far as good fights that could conceivably go either way those times are pretty good.


So how much longer do you want to have to warp scouts around looking for fights? Do you think you should have to warp around new eden for 8 hours before we get a decent pvp fight?

You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want?



Having local is what makes finding targets hard.

Once you enter local anyone paying attention to it immediately knows who you're not...not blue. If you're not blue, they immediately POS up or put the call out for help.

Having to rely on dscan means that once you enter the system, depending on how you've done it, where you entered and who is in range of dscan, if anyone, you might make it in completely undetected. So even if someone IS paying attention they may never know you're there until it's too late depending on how good you are at using dscan. Out here in w-space, I can find your POS and have eyes on it in about 2 minutes using dscan. I can narrow down your location, assuming you're not at an anom or anything else that the ship's default system scanner can pinpoint, in about the same amount of time. Then it's just a matter of going out of dscan range of you, dropping a set of probes at <=4au settings and then dropping them right on top of you for 1 or 2 scans to pinpoint you. If you've been running dscan at intervals of larger than 5 minutes, I have a fair chance of finding you completely undetected in such cases.

Depending on size of the system, it takes exactly 30s to 5min to recon a system using dscan

IDK, sounds like you're having a failure of imagination of exactly how effective you can be without local as opposed to the instant intel that you're accustomed to.



Don't ban me, bro!
Roscojameson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-04-22 17:58:42 UTC
I don't see a problem with changing local. You still have to spam your d-scan when you're roaming just so you know who's actually flying and who's docked or AFK. All local does is protect nullbears while they rat or mine. Guess what, null-sec is supposed to be dangerous. Just learn to use your d-scan, or stop being lazy if that's the reason. HTFU
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
#51 - 2012-04-22 17:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Dragon Outlaw
They are probably reserving it for a future expansion who knows. IMO, if CCP comes up with this major change Lol, a few other tweaks may be required to keep the game fun and challenging for people who like to at least know that potential prays are near. For example, CCP could add a column on the d-scan window that would reveal if a ship is neutral, blue or red ( I am just throwing this in brainstorm mode here).

I am convinced that removing local would make roams in null and low sec more interesting and in consequence, it would generate more PvP, not less (large sov holding alliance could see more hostile fleets infiltrate their precious space).

Why is CCP holding up on this I am not sure, but they should consider it. The removal of local coupled with a few other tweaks could bring a revolution in Eve and bring subscriptions on a higher growth path.
===========
Imagine an Eve with no local, no gates, no free intel... Think about it CCP!!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2012-04-22 18:01:35 UTC
Roscojameson wrote:
I don't see a problem with changing local. You still have to spam your d-scan when you're roaming just so you know who's actually flying and who's docked or AFK. All local does is protect nullbears while they rat or mine. Guess what, null-sec is supposed to be dangerous. Just learn to use your d-scan, or stop being lazy if that's the reason. HTFU

thank you for your valuable opinion npc corp poster
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-04-22 18:03:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
Cearain wrote:
You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want?


Where did I say that losing local will decrease the frequency of good fights in eve??


Here is the simple fact about local:


It requires far less time and effort to avoid conflict due to the local channel than it takes an aggressor to find and successfully engage someone using local channel.
Roscojameson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2012-04-22 18:07:51 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Roscojameson wrote:
I don't see a problem with changing local. You still have to spam your d-scan when you're roaming just so you know who's actually flying and who's docked or AFK. All local does is protect nullbears while they rat or mine. Guess what, null-sec is supposed to be dangerous. Just learn to use your d-scan, or stop being lazy if that's the reason. HTFU

thank you for your valuable opinion npc corp poster


You're very welcome, random null-sec resident.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-04-22 18:23:30 UTC
The reason "no local intel" works in W-space is that there are no static routes. Bookmarks become useless in 16 to 36 hours (usually much less).

No local chat/intel + Stationary gates = ?

On the plus side, you *do* get used to being more aware of your surroundings and using d-scan...

I like that Worm Holes are different, i would (*personally*) like to keep them different...

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2012-04-22 18:27:35 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Cearain wrote:
You are definitely correct that losing local will decrease the frequency of good pvp fights in eve. We agree there. I just think they should look for ways to increase the amount of action per hour (although i am against arenas). But anyway how many fewer good fights do you want?


Where did I say that losing local will decrease the frequency of good fights in eve??


Here is the simple fact about local:


It requires far less time and effort to avoid conflict due to the local channel than it takes an aggressor to find and successfully engage someone using local channel.

Here's a simple fact, and not just some analogy.

http://www.evenews24.com/2012/02/15/malefactor-lowsec-by-the-numbers/

According to CCP Diagoras' numbers of kills and losses per month of each resident of each security space type, PVP activity goes in the order of lowsec > nullsec > w-space > highsec. Your assertion of delayed local leading to more fights is demonstrably false.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2012-04-22 18:29:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
The reason "no local intel" works in W-space is that there are no static routes. Bookmarks become useless in 16 to 36 hours (usually much less).

No local chat/intel + Stationary gates = ?

On the plus side, you *do* get used to being more aware of your surroundings and using d-scan...

I like that Worm Holes are different, i would (*personally*) like to keep them different...

If you want a good idea of how nullsec would be with delayed local, let's just remove the cynojamming from wh-space and put in wormhole stabilizers. From the threads I've read in Assembly Hall and Jita Park, wormhole residents think it would be really good for w-space.

Fact of the matter is, other then delayed local, every other aspect of w-space favours the defender compared to 0.0. And even then only 5% of players choose to live there. I can't imagine how anyone could imagine that a version of delayed local with static routes, far less reward and cyno hot drops would do any better.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#58 - 2012-04-22 18:31:30 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
The reason "no local intel" works in W-space is that there are no static routes. Bookmarks become useless in 16 to 36 hours (usually much less).

No local chat/intel + Stationary gates = ?

On the plus side, you *do* get used to being more aware of your surroundings and using d-scan...

I like that Worm Holes are different, i would (*personally*) like to keep them different...

If you want a good idea of how nullsec would be with delayed local, let's just remove the cynojamming from wh-space and put in wormhole stabilizers. From the threads I've read in Assembly Hall and Jita Park, wormhole residents think it would be really good for w-space.

Would that let titans jump in?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#59 - 2012-04-22 18:38:13 UTC
ITT; people are upset they'll have to fight over contested areas

The pie is a tautology
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-04-22 18:50:37 UTC
Dont like the way high sec is? Dont like local?

Go live in WH


problem solved

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game