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Why does everyone hate the Drake?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#61 - 2012-04-21 19:23:12 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Also they're not overpowered you big sexyvoiced crybaby.

Let's imagine the following scenario:

80 Hellcats + 20 Guardians + 20 assorted support engage 120 Drakes + 30 Scimis + 20 assorted support

I won't ask who wins, because the Drakes are going to get their **** pushed in, I'll just ask for your estimate of how long it will take for the Drake FC to ask for a cyno for the supercaps?

Have to admit I lack your recent experience with such a hypothetical encounter. ******* work and less eve time. I'm reduced to crying here on the forums.Cry

However, talkabout sexy. 30 scimis looks pretty sexy to me. Can those drakes have ecm drones. I would think 20 ecm'd guardians won't hold up the baddons very long. But I suppose I should take your word for it as my recent experience is lacking.

Regardless, the issue is not can Drakes be beat. It is where are the Harbinger and Myrm fleets? Why is there one tech I BC sitting among BSs and Tech III ships for comprising the backbone of a fleet? Why is a Drake the easiest and fastest entry to level 4s for characters starting out, while other races have to train BS? Why is the Drake a pve and pvp powerhouse while none of the others are?



Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed.

ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb

To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed.

Why should all battlecruisers be equally capable at all roles? No other ship class exhibits this kind of homogeneity unless maybe covops. Devoters are simply indisputably better fleet HICs than Phobos are, no contest, but that doesn't make the Phobos bad or the Devoter OP, because the Phobos is a way better gate camper. Myrms are bad at being fleet ships, but that doesn't make them bad ships, it just means they're not useful for the specific requirements of large fleets.

PS The Dominix is about as fast and easy an entry to level 4s as a Drake.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
AKilla Sunday
EVE Corporation 98582134
#62 - 2012-04-21 20:37:23 UTC
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-04-21 21:59:54 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles.


Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank

I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.
Kalli Brixzat
#64 - 2012-04-21 22:29:28 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles.


Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank

I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.


Drakes, like most other ships, are fitted significantly differently depending on what you are doing.

Story at 11.
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#65 - 2012-04-21 22:35:19 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:

Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank

I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.

I'm still in love for the evoke guys who invented the PermaMWD drake. Cool

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Rara Yariza
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-04-21 23:32:01 UTC
Death Toll007 wrote:


Currently run a PbP setup with 80k ehp and 700dps.


-DT


link pls
Lili Lu
#67 - 2012-04-21 23:51:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed.

ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb

To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed.

And yet you are using Drakes the majority of the time.

Malcanis wrote:
Why should all battlecruisers be equally capable at all roles? No other ship class exhibits this kind of homogeneity unless maybe covops. Devoters are simply indisputably better fleet HICs than Phobos are, no contest, but that doesn't make the Phobos bad or the Devoter OP, because the Phobos is a way better gate camper. Myrms are bad at being fleet ships, but that doesn't make them bad ships, it just means they're not useful for the specific requirements of large fleets.

Difference being you can't have a fleet of Devoters. Well you could but what would it do? Sure in specialized ship classes like dictors and hictors there exist qualitative differences and battle scenarios where one may be better than others. But they are not stepping up to slugging with a higher skiled ship class. BCs and BSs are fleet dps backbone ships.

What if there was a tech I cruiser that as a fleet could stand toe to toe with BC fleets? No problem according to your reasoning. It's just a Cruiser that is better than the others (ding ding) they can't all be equal. But it is not a mere inequality it is qualitative jump in ship class. Drakes do this and this is how they are different from a Sabre that is better than the others (which is not to say that imbalance shouldn't be addressed also).

Malcanis wrote:
PS The Dominix is about as fast and easy an entry to level 4s as a Drake.
No.
Lili Lu
#68 - 2012-04-21 23:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Again though my point stands. Would you guys put together a fleet of any other tier 1 or 2 BCs to fight the CFC? No. Canes are probably the second best option and their shield tank is simply too flimsy for large fleet battles.


Our Drake fit and a shield tanked Cane have similar tank

I'm not sure why you think Drakes have this SUPER AWESOME AMAZING TANK when literally no major user fits them that way anymore.

Yes perma mwd-ing Canes perform just like those Drakes. And of course, if you want to be an anachronism you can tank fit your Canes with the same capabilities of tank Drakes. So, this is why I keep returning to the eve-kill top-20 statistics. It has been clearly displaying canes and drakes as equally used for the last few years. No problem, and that is why CCP hasn't finally said the Drake will be altered.

btw - the super amazing awesome tank is worthless because it's mainly used for pve. who needs that?
Lord Dravius
Doomheim
#69 - 2012-04-22 10:18:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Dravius
Talok Ren wrote:
I was looking to upgrade from my Cormorant to start doing some lvl 2 missions and was told that the Drake would be a good ship to get, so I trained all the necessary skills, found a seemingly decent loadout and started saving the ISK for it. Then I started seeing a lot of players hating on it and making general fun of others who pilot them with no real reason given. Can anyone inform me as to why this is, or Is this more of a PVP/balance issue?

I am really wanting a decent missile boat, is there a better ship for level 2 missions or should I just dismiss the negativity towards the ship since I'm mainly doing PVE missions?

If you're in a Drake you should be doing lv3. The reason people don't like it is because it's overpowered, not because it sucks. You don't have any reason to switch out of it, other than it being overkill for lv2's.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-04-22 11:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Lili Lu wrote:

Yes perma mwd-ing Canes perform just like those Drakes.


We don't use perma-MWDing Drakes. I have no idea why that particular fit is even popular, it's dumb as hell.

Quote:
And of course, if you want to be an anachronism you can tank fit your Canes with the same capabilities of tank Drakes.


You can actually fit them to be better in the current meta, it's just no one does. I don't know why, but I suspect it's the same reason people think that perma-MWDing Drakes are a legit fleet comp.

Quote:
So, this is why I keep returning to the eve-kill top-20 statistics. It has been clearly displaying canes and drakes as equally used for the last few years. No problem, and that is why CCP hasn't finally said the Drake will be altered.


Considering the proposed changed was a massive buff to the Drake, I'm not sure you're going to be pleased with the outcome. Especially when solo and small gang sub-BS becomes Drakes n' Talos Online.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#71 - 2012-04-22 13:30:15 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Seriously, the hellcat fleet will mangle the drakes so badly it's not funny. The scimis will do no good because the drakes will get volleyed.

ECM drones are vulnerable to a single support ship with a cheap True Sansha small smartbomb

To be candid, I think you're stuck in the memory of the Catch campaign. Drakes are by no means the only fleet doctrine any more. Conditions have changed.

And yet you are using Drakes the majority of the time.



No we aren't. Last night we formed up in armour fleet. The night before that it was sniper tier 3s, the fleet before that was bombers.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Orlacc
#72 - 2012-04-22 15:28:19 UTC
Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-04-22 15:32:15 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?

drake is the justin bieber of spaceships

I should buy an Ishtar.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#74 - 2012-04-22 15:43:08 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

drake is the justin bieber of spaceships


Truth.

No sane person with a pair likes it, but it's still popular.




.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-04-22 15:46:20 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
We don't use perma-MWDing Drakes. I have no idea why that particular fit is even popular, it's dumb as hell.


The fact that Abaddon pilot can't hit it with arties doesn't make this fit "dumb as hell".
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#76 - 2012-04-22 18:27:00 UTC
I had a Drake on an alt account for added fire support to blitz missions when I was still learning the game. I grew bored with it though because all you did was orbit and hit F1 all of the time.

I have just bought one again (partly because of the proposed change to BC skills I can fly them on this toon), but to be honest it is just to see all the cool upcoming missile effects in the next patch. It really is a versatile ship if you want to tinker with it, including secondary support roles. Below however is just how, un-serious, I am taking my ownership of the one I own:


[Drake, Need better missile skills]
[Cap stable because it is only flown when drunk]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Medium Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II

Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
Rocket Launcher I, Gremlin Rocket
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#77 - 2012-04-22 18:39:40 UTC
Orlacc wrote:
Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?



I'm too cool to like popular things

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#78 - 2012-04-22 18:55:17 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?



I'm too cool to like popular things


Its cool to hate popular things. Look at WoW

If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next?

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2012-04-22 19:03:23 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next?


No, CCP buffs Drake. They have already plans for Tengu. Currently Tengu is better than Caldari T2 cruisers. It shouldn't be that way.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#80 - 2012-04-22 19:25:23 UTC
Sigurd Sig Hansen wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Orlacc wrote:
Everyone hates the Drake because it is the most popular ship in the game...what?



I'm too cool to like popular things


Its cool to hate popular things. Look at WoW

If everyone hates the Drake so bad CCP is nerfing it, shouldnt the Tengu be next?


coming from a guy with upwards of 10k hours played, you should hate wow not because it's popular but because it sucks. big time.

I should buy an Ishtar.