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In the feature storm, no mention of the Local-Chat-Intel-Gathering issue.
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Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-04-21 14:56:30 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Since CCP can't decide to give null "no local" how about giving w-space such a wonderfully perfect intel tool?

/pantsonhead

HELL NO!

And leave wormholes out of this, tyvm!

It feels *WEIRD* to go somewhere in null, and see people listed in local...

It feels WRONG to go to hi-sec and see people in local (and on gates) I can't shoot...

That was my biggest adjustment when I left WH space and came back to K space for a break...

Almost lost my legion going after a scan destroyer on a hi-sec gate....

Oops

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#22 - 2012-04-21 14:59:26 UTC
The whole reason I prefer WH over lowsec is local.

Local is a fking joke, especially for a covert ops ship, DUH CCP

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-04-21 17:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Camios
I made this thread so that people can support it if they feel like. I would like to hear some concrete stuff from CCP/CSM on this front.

Every dude with a bit of immagination can think of what a system like "submarines in space" or whatever would bring to EVE in terms of variety. But actually, the time for brainstorming and throwing ideas on this has pretty much passed; the "local" problem has already been discussed heavily. It's about time that CCP devotes some of their development time to this 'issue'.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#24 - 2012-04-21 18:40:20 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.

Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.

True story.

It's not that bad, it's more of warfare will turn into blob vs blob based around timers for POSes and such.

Of course spies would be involved to gauge the number of people in the blob attacking/defending.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-04-21 18:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
what's the issue exactly?

a bunch of scrubs who think the reason they can't get ganks on carebears is because of local and not because the risk/reward aspect has been pushing all null pve activity, ranging from manufacturing and trade and mining and now with incursions - ratting, to highsec over the course of several years?
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-04-21 19:14:13 UTC
It's fun to see people saying that delayed local is for "bunch of scrubs who think the reason they can't get ganks on carebears is because of local", and people saying that "Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights".

Anyway, it's obvious that we're talking about replace local with something else, more sophisticated and interesting; not to just put it delayed and say 'good night'.

Carebears will have their tools to try avoid being ganked, and hungry pvpers will have theirs for their goals; just it should be more complex.

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-04-21 19:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Aiwha wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.



Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.


True story.



As the hunter, local does little to make you blind. As the prey, no local requires that you be more involved in the game than checking local for bad guys.

The fact that you consider it a handicap speaks volumes about the kind of game you play, nullbear!




Because people ganking stupid ratters is an exciting pastime that needs a revamp and is exactly what I was talking about.


I was referring to actual player versus player fighting. We don't get :goodfites: if we have no idea where the other fleets are.


I've been in a w-space system when it's been sieged. I knew exactly where the fleets were and where they came from. Lets see, 1 fleet was camping our static, one fleet was bashing our pos, another fleet was scouting a back way into/out of our system via K162 and it was 3 w-space systems deep. Our fleet was working to break up the static camp and we had two guys keeping tabs/scouting on the bad guys scouting the K162. And there were a couple of cloakies hanging around P6 looking to take on anyone not paying attention.

Now, if I can find those fleets with no local, I'm not exactly sure what your point is, nullbear. If you're implying it doesn't give you quick effortless intel, then you are correct. But don't sit here and tell everyone that it blinds you. It adds the fog of war. But, that's a good thing.

Don't ban me, bro!
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#28 - 2012-04-21 19:31:03 UTC
Camios wrote:
Anyway, it's obvious that we're talking about replace local with something else, more sophisticated and interesting; not to just put it delayed and say 'good night'.

Oh ho, you need to be explicit about these things.

Since after all, otherwise we'd get just what was advertised: delayed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#29 - 2012-04-21 20:00:03 UTC
Lord Dravius wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Yes, we all want to bumble around nullsec blind and unnable to find fights.



Not being able to pvp will make us all very very happy.


True story.

Nobody is saying they don't want an intel tool, just that that intel tool shouldn't be the chat system. Besides, if anything it'll make hunting easier. If local didn't instantly show everyone in the system people can't run the moment a threat enters the system.


Fine they should do is just make it so you can't chat in local. Then it will no longer be a "chat system."

Basically all the remove local and replace it with X proposals are either horrible or lead to doing what I describe above.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#30 - 2012-04-21 20:07:50 UTC
Being able to chat in Local with hostiles during a TiDied fleet fight is fun though...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#31 - 2012-04-22 00:56:28 UTC
SweetrolI wrote:
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
If you think Local gives you too much information, keep it closed. Problem solved.


Was that a serious comment or... are you ********?



What part didn't seem serious? This whining has been going on for years and seems to be about cloakies people see in local that they can't scan down. So it if bothers you so much keep it closed.

Simple right? Ignorance is bliss.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#32 - 2012-04-22 01:06:41 UTC
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
What part didn't seem serious? This whining has been going on for years and seems to be about cloakies people see in local that they can't scan down. So it if bothers you so much keep it closed.

Simple right? Ignorance is bliss.

Ah yes, the cloaky camper.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Just Alter
Futures Abstractions
#33 - 2012-04-22 01:18:50 UTC
I think local is fine as it is in highsec, is fine in low sec, is fine in null sec and is fine in wh-space.

Changing how local work would create more harm than good.

Just create new wormhole(c-4-5-6) space and maybe multiple "solar system" wormholes.
Siva Surya Kshatriya
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-04-22 05:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Siva Surya Kshatriya
Marlona Sky wrote:
Many years ago the local channel stopped working. It showed no one except the number of pilots in that system. For that one day the game had changed. Real scouts were sent out to gather information and the excitement of not knowing what was out there was amazing.

Then CCP changed it back to what you have now. An instant, effort free, super intel gathering device. So lame.


This.

Or you could make local delayed, with the delay before your name pops up dependent on the sig radius of your ship - for example, a Rifter with a tiny sig radius might take 1.5 minutes to show up, whereas a BS would show ip in like 20 seconds (all arbitrary numbers, but you get the idea). This would make small, light scouts a lot more useful and make gangs of raiding frigs far more viable, as they would have a stealth advantage when compared to heavier ships.
Peter Raptor
Galactic Hawks
#35 - 2012-04-22 06:25:24 UTC
Local the way it is, is excellent, gives balance to the game, if there was no local, the care bear population would be decimated, and Tritanium would cost 500,000 a piece (give or take a couple of isk P )

CCP is PRO greifing as it is (just look at how pathetically easy a hulk pops), not everyone wants to pay real money to play a game, eve population is stagnant as it is.

tl;dr Leave local as it is.

Evelopedia; 

The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion  †  
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-04-22 07:06:05 UTC
Siva Surya Kshatriya wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Many years ago the local channel stopped working. It showed no one except the number of pilots in that system. For that one day the game had changed. Real scouts were sent out to gather information and the excitement of not knowing what was out there was amazing.

Then CCP changed it back to what you have now. An instant, effort free, super intel gathering device. So lame.


This.

Or you could make local delayed, with the delay before your name pops up dependent on the sig radius of your ship - for example, a Rifter with a tiny sig radius might take 1.5 minutes to show up, whereas a BS would show ip in like 20 seconds (all arbitrary numbers, but you get the idea). This would make small, light scouts a lot more useful and make gangs of raiding frigs far more viable, as they would have a stealth advantage when compared to heavier ships.

Definitely the best solution. This way nobody is 'blinded' as it was put, but local is also no longer the best scouting tool players have.

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#37 - 2012-04-22 07:06:39 UTC
Local Chat Intel is terrible for game balance. I'm not even sure if it was ever an intended feature or just an oversight on CCPs part on how their chat system would be used by players.

The whole "carebears" will leave thing is so over used. There's some players that really should just leave this game and EVE would be better off for their parting, but mostly people will just adapt.

The only criticism of removing Local Chat's Intel functions that has any weight to it whatsoever is Nullsecers claiming it will drive more players from Null to High Sec. Thing is this has already happened for PvEing and Industry, and the problem isn't with removing Local, but with the already very out of whack Risk vs Reward balance in respect to High Sec... especially Incursions. That's something that needs to be addressed irrespective of whether Local Chat loses it's Intel functions or not.

tl;dr Remove Local Chat Intel
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-04-22 07:21:10 UTC
"carebears will leave"

no

carebears already left

that's why you're complaining
Lyrrashae
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#39 - 2012-04-22 07:30:17 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Many years ago the local channel stopped working. It showed no one except the number of pilots in that system. For that one day the game had changed. Real scouts were sent out to gather information and the excitement of not knowing what was out there was amazing.

[...]


^^That^^ needs to come back. Like, immediately.

As well: **** nullsec.

Ni.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-04-22 07:30:40 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:
Well they put in delayed local into wormhole space as a sort of test case then they got distracted by Incarna and completely forgot about it.

Changing local if it ever happens will probably have the greatest impact in EVE of all time and I think CCP is scared to touch it because if they mess up it will have disastrous consequences.


agreed
Bad place for a gaming company to be in though.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game