Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Concept :
Developing an avatar based game that joins EVE and Dust 514 in the EVE Universe.

Motivation :
Avatar based games are familiar to MMO players and are a well-established style. By providing an Avatar based game this opens a new market for CCP that can compete with other science fiction based Avatar games like Star Wars – The Old Republic, Entropia Universe or similar.

It extends the EVE Universe and creates the potential for more subscribers while introducing them to EVE and the other games in the Universe.

It satisfies the long term vision from CCP to have an ambulation based experience as a part of EVE Online.

My reasons:

• It re-allocates the WoD team to WiS so we can see faster results
• It allows for it to be funded on its own so it has more stability and can be worked on independently
• It follows a new model CCP is introducing to introduce different game types into the EVE Universe, like Dust 514 which gives us a safety net which still gives us interaction with EVE FiS (I included the concept of cross-over characters) with a modular build so the content transition can be seamless for EVE FiS players and separate for pure EVE WiS players
• It compromises between different groups of players and creates more opportunity as it can target players not covered under the current EVE Online target market

Funding:
Development funding for the World of Darkness team to be re-appropriate to extend the EVE Universe. Scope exists for a crowd-sourced form of funding as described here.Future funding will be handled primarily through a mixed model of subscription and PLEX. The intent is to provide social gameplay on a free to play basis with a limited set of skills available while a combination of PLEX and subscription extends the skills and gameplay options available.

This does create segregation in terms of content available to subscribers and non-subscribers; however the common, social aspects will be available to everyone.

Account Management :
This will utilise the Master Account plans raised by CCP / CSM 6 in the December 2011 summit. The Master Account will have flags for content from EVE Online and Avatar. If a flag is set all sub-accounts under the master account will have access to content from both. If a player is a current subscriber to EVE Online through PLEX or a normal subscription they receive access to Avatar as part of their subscription payment. If a player is subscribed to Avatar only, either through PLEX, a normal subscription or as a free player, they do not gain access to EVE Online except for the built in interactions. They will not be able to pilot a ship or move themselves between solar systems.

Deployment :
Design and development of the concept should be handled in such a way that it can be added as a modular component to the current EVE Online client. Current EVE Online subscribers should not require this modular expansion if they do not want access to the Avatar based content beyond their locked door captain’s quarters.

It must, however, have a stand-alone client available for customers that do not subscribe or participate in EVE Online. This client can be structured similar to the EVE Online client with modular expansion packs for the Ambulation content.

Blue-prints can be generated in Avatar based gameplay. These blue-prints will initially be done for social and decorative items that can be used in Avatar based gameplay. This is for decorations to be used in WiS, items of clothing and so forth. It is envisaged that cybernetic limbs and other accoutrements that suit the appearance of a capsuleer will enter into the market. The production results of the blue-prints will be visible in the Shopping areas and through the standard Market interface of EVE Online. They will be available to capsuleers, Avatar and Dust based characters.

These blue-prints will need to be vetted through Team Avatar or similar for suitability with a sufficiently high ISK cost to ensure that unacceptable designs are not spammed upon the vetting team. This leaves scope for CCP to run contests for designs, for avatar based players to establish themselves as a designer label and to have a source of ISK through manufacturing.

This allows for corporations or alliances to have blue prints or exclusive items for their members that can range from logos to custom skins for their ships or other equipment. Part of this will be the embedding of a manufacturer / designer tag on each item, similar to the tags associated to NPC corporations on various hulls.

This helps the manufacturer / designer to build a presence within the universe.

In future incarnations, depending on the development of EVE Online, it might become possible to extend this to allow for blue print development of components used in other aspects of the game. This would preferably use a point based system from which various attributes can be configured to create an object such as a module, a ship, a piece of equipment or vehicle for Dust.

For example:

An Artillery Cannon is allocated a bucket between 1000 and 2000 points. Each point spent costs 100,000,000 ISK or similar. To create a Small Artillery Cannon you require 200 points, a Medium Artillery Cannon requires 400 points and a Large Artillery Cannon requires 600 points. A Tier 1 Artillery Cannon costs 0 points; a Tier 2 Artillery Cannon would cost 500 points; etc.
This would force a player to operate within the bucket with their budget governing how much of the bucket they can consume. Different attributes would cost points while reducing attributes or accepting a negative penalty would increase points available.

The final points cost determines how much it will cost to create the blue print and research it.

Note : Any such a system would need to be very carefully considered and balanced to ensure that the trade-offs in terms of penalties outweigh the ability to min/max the statistics of an item.

For Capsuleers:
This is an important section, because Avatar based gameplay is considered to be a part of EVE Online. To avoid breaking the immersion of capsuleers and their unique position within the universe of new Eden all interaction that falls outside of their home station should be through a simulacrum or mechanically controlled device.

In the example raised by CCP where a capsuleer engage in exploration of an abandoned complex it should be achieved by a remotely controlled robotic device that can be used to explore the station while the capsuleer remains within their pod and within the safe environment of their ship.

Within stations and when transferred to a planet they should have their normal avatars.

This may change once the lore has been updated to Dust 514 levels as there may be new cloning technology available.

It is important to note that for EVE FiS subscribers that elect to use Avatar based gameplay the transition between the two must be seamless.

Skills :
Certain skills used in EVE Online under the following headings will be available in Avatar.

• Industry
• Planetary Interaction
• Social
• Trade

Some of the skills need to be updated to work with both in-space refining stations, etc. to working with in-space and planetary based environments.

New skills need to be introduced for Avatar based characters. I am still working on this section.

Lots of really good ideas. The only point I disagree with is having it as a seperate game to EVE.

A very well thought out post. I approve of this! +1

I like the idea of a separate account type for WiS-only and FiS-only players, and a WiS game which seeks to stand on its own feet to some extent.

My idea of the gameplay might be a somewhat tighter integration of the two games than you've outlined here.

I'd like to see most of the station services which are currently run by NPCs replaced by player run businesses. For instance, WiS-only players could set up ship repair shops in a station. For the FiS player who is ship spinning, the interface might look identical (i.e. minimize existing player rage), but the repair fee would go to the WiS player. Hopefully there would be some gameplay aspect on the WiS side to make running a repair shop "fun". Maybe you have to gather some in-station resources via a different minigame to keep it going. And maybe multiple repair shops within a station could compete with each other based on quality/price. If "quality" of the shop depended on some skill-based minigame, all the better.

This would require FiS players to choose a repair shop (from their spinning ship), but hopefully that extra step would not provoke rage, especially if the prices were improved over current NPC rates or if they could define a "default" shop to use whenever they dock.

And the same applies to other station services, like running a lab or refining station, etc. These could all be re-cast into neat little mini-games which would be completely under-the-hood on the FiS side, but an integral part of the WiS game.

Some socially-oriented gameplay might be attractive to bring in some new customers. I don't really understand those, so don't have any ideas in that direction. In my opinion the whole fashion thing was a red-herring, and unfortunately seems to have lead to technical requirements which gimped the engine for other purposes. (my interpretation from reading between the lines, but maybe there are other reasons why the engine is so heavy.)


To feel integrated in the Eve universe, it might be good if WiS accounts had some limited space-flight ability, e.g. able to fly a shuttle. This would require an FiS-capable client, though. Otherwise an FiS transport service would do the job. It would be great if that could be player run (new ship class) with all of the usual FiS dangers and appropriate consequences attached. But timing might be a problem, in the sense that you don't want to wait a week for the next transport to visit your remote system.


If CCP want to add some kind of in-station combat, they will have to raise their technical game quite a bit. Currently avatars walk (slowly) and sit, via a clumsy point-and-click interface. That would have to change; not sure if their engine is up to it. (But please, no guy with exclamation mark over his head saying "The station is infested with tribbles! - Kill 10 and collect 10gp".)


I don't know how flexible CCP are about moving the WoD developers to a new project. There may even be contractual reasons from the purchase of the IP which prevents this. In any case, it seems to me that the WoD IP is under-utilized in CCP's hands, and they'd be best off selling it for a good price to someone who's more willing/able to exploit it while it is still worth something.

The unanswered question is how well suited the incarna engine is for more advanced gameplay. Can it handle environments larger than a room, or more than one avatar? How much work will it be to make that happen? My fear is that it is not at all ready for prime time. Otherwise they wouldn't have shelved WiS so emphatically, but rather would have rolled out some of the simpler suggestions already. Unfortunately, if that's the case, speculation and planning for WiS may be somewhat pointless except for the very long term and yet another generation of engine.

tl;dr: Some ideas, probably none of which are original ... Ugh, look at me, I'm posting in a WiS thread. Must take shower. Ugh.

You should post in them more often. Those ideas are good. I like that!

So to make a thread worthwhile we must let in the almighty troll ,sad.

to Ai Shun there is no need for WIS to be separate ,maybe working on a second server cluster ,yes.
A lot of people want WIS to be meaningful ,if you make WIS meaningful to EVE ,there is no use to make WIS a seperate game.
WIS would be part of EVE as the spaceships are.
If WIS only is used to be a social aspect of the game ,then its only an addon ,so its not needed to make a game of it

Buts what is the use to make it a standalone ?
The only ones who benefits form possible WIS gameplay is the EVE community
Dust consolecrap has its targets on another crowd