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Virtual Psychopathy in New Eden

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Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#101 - 2012-04-20 20:50:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Dawiid BenAimaic wrote:
My dad's Uncle Frank made the observation that people were a lot more polite when everyone wore a sidearm.


There are places where everyone carries guns, and they aren't anywhere close to that kind of utopia.

If you ask me, everyone was more polite before the police existed. You had to watch what you said to others, because if you insulted them they might decide your head would look good on a pike in front of their house, as an example to everyone else.

These sniveling brats going around trying to upset others are hiding behind the police. They know they're protected from violence.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#102 - 2012-04-20 20:55:02 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Dawiid BenAimaic wrote:
My dad's Uncle Frank made the observation that people were a lot more polite when everyone wore a sidearm.


There are places where everyone carries guns, and they aren't anywhere close to that kind of utopia.

If you ask me, everyone was more polite before the police existed. You had to watch what you said to others, because if you insulted them they might decide your head would look good on a pike in front of their house, as an example to everyone else.

These sniveling brats going around trying to upset others are hiding behind the police. They know they're protected from violence.


Interestingly in the US states that have Conceal to Carry permits available have a much lower violent crime rate than states where it is more difficult to legally carry a firearm.

Just sayin'.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#103 - 2012-04-20 21:04:37 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Interestingly in the US states that have Conceal to Carry permits available have a much lower violent crime rate than states where it is more difficult to legally carry a firearm.

Just sayin'.


Those states might be better than others in the US, but still have more violent crime than places in other countries of equal size without so many guns.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#104 - 2012-04-20 21:10:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Bane Necran wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Interestingly in the US states that have Conceal to Carry permits available have a much lower violent crime rate than states where it is more difficult to legally carry a firearm.

Just sayin'.


Those states might be better than others in the US, but still have more violent crime than places in other countries of equal size without so many guns.


Compared to other countries, yes.
Capared to other contries of equal size, no.
Vast size and ease of transport very much works against a nation that wishes to strictly control firearms. You end up in a situation where only the criminal element has the option to easily obtain and use lethal force, and are well aware of that fact.

Either way, it was not my intention to derail the thread with a casual observation.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-04-20 21:30:28 UTC
Considering that you can do all this and get away with it (as in no real life consequences) there is a hint of truth to the victims of this game Twisted
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#106 - 2012-04-20 22:16:00 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tricking someone into thinking you have an ace-high straight and taking a large amount of real life money from them as a result?

Well played sir, oh good game!

Tricking someone into thinking you have a Titan for sales and taking a large amount of imaginary pixel-money from them as a result?

U R MENTALLY SICK SOCIOPATH!!!!11


Obviously it's the lack of real life consequences that make the difference. Roll

Roll

Poker game where everyone knows there is money on the table.
In game scam targeting in game money.
In game scam targeting out of game money.

These three things are different.


So you're not aware that bluffing, I mean scamming, is part of the game in EVE? I mean CCP even made an EVE advert advocaing corp theft as a method of revenge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I

So how exactly is this different?



Ah the poker analogy. In poker you are not actually talking to people and building thier trust so that you can betray them. You aren't really talking at all. When people are building trust in eve it is not role play of trust between characters. They are trying to build real trust with the real people behind the characters.


That is how it is different. Because people understand how this line is crossed differently within the game is why lots of people have different views about the ethics of those who play the game.


With respect to the eve advertisement - it would be more realistic if they had someone lying to other people on vent over a course of several months in order to take their ingame assets. It would also show him selling those assets buying enough plex to pay for his subscription for for a few years and then going ahead and canceling his subscription which used to be taken out of his bank account. It wouldn't sell eve very well but it would be more realistic of how those sorts of scams are done.


Actually, in poker you are lying your ass off constantly... either through verbal misdirection or body language. You are trying your best, usually in very subtle ways, to convince the other playing that it's safe to bet a large sum on the outcome. It's called a bluff.

Frankly, nobody forced the "mark" to spend a penny on his hobby. He knew full well he was spending cash to buy destructible/stealable in game items.

As far as the EVE video spending more time to show details of HOW to build up the trust of the ruthless players that ganked you previously, and how to finance your EVE gaming entirely from the proceeds... they absolutely should have!

Subscriptions would have gone through the roof. Smile



No you are not lying when you play poker. I mean you can lie and say "I have a bad hand stay in" when you have a great hand but that is just silly and not how most poker is played. Its not a game of betraying any trust at all. If for whatever reason the person really beleived those lies (due to age or lack of mental capacity) and you continued to do lie and take advantage of their trust you would be acting unethically. That is pretty much allot of eve lies and "scams."

LOL "the ruthless players that ganked you." See you are trying to suggest that players who are clearly playing the game are "ruthless players." When in fact blowing up other peoples spaceships in a game about blowing up other peoples spaceships does not at all suggest the player is ruthless. Perhaps the character he plays is ruthless but not the person playing it.

This is always the red herring I see people go for to avoid the ethical issues of building real trust between real people and then betraying it for personal gain. Yes that personal gain may be to save time or save a subscription fee or whatever but its a real personal gain not just an in game gain.

That said I will at least concede there could be a possible role play defense. And I will agree that its possible some people are not really bright enough to understand the difference between acting "in game" and "outside the game" as I explained above. I don't find their lack of wit culpable.

As for your thinking showing clips of people on vent gaining the trust of others in real life in order to lie to and betray them would be great marketing .... we will just have to agree to disagree on that. Younger people might like it, but as you get older you get enough of that in real life. From my perspective the idea of wanting more of that in a game is beyond stupid. Maybe my view is unusual because of the amount of it I have had to deal with in the past and currently. But I think it probably the same for allot of people who are older gamers.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#107 - 2012-04-20 23:14:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Came across this on another site and it seemed relevant to the discussion.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2012-04-21 00:05:06 UTC
Cearain wrote:
1) Lets say I talk to you on vent and tell you I will not steal from you or your corp in eve.

Is that in game or out of game?
It's part of the meta-game ... so in-game.
Leza Bo ManHater
Pyramid Celestial
#109 - 2012-04-21 00:09:36 UTC
blah blah blah
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-04-21 00:10:11 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
These sniveling brats going around trying to upset others are hiding behind the police. They know they're protected from violence.
Carebears and CONCORD!
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-04-21 03:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Ranger 1 wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
Dawiid BenAimaic wrote:
My dad's Uncle Frank made the observation that people were a lot more polite when everyone wore a sidearm.


There are places where everyone carries guns, and they aren't anywhere close to that kind of utopia.

If you ask me, everyone was more polite before the police existed. You had to watch what you said to others, because if you insulted them they might decide your head would look good on a pike in front of their house, as an example to everyone else.

These sniveling brats going around trying to upset others are hiding behind the police. They know they're protected from violence.


Interestingly in the US states that have Conceal to Carry permits available have a much lower violent crime rate than states where it is more difficult to legally carry a firearm.

Just sayin'.


and yet in Florida, walking down your street can get you murdered by a neighborhood watch guy (who may not get convicted of the crime) due to a law called stand your ground where you are legally allowed to use deadly force if you think your life is threatened. Reminds me of Firefly. "If someone tries to kill you you kill them right back"

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Cearain wrote:
1) Lets say I talk to you on vent and tell you I will not steal from you or your corp in eve.

Is that in game or out of game?
It's part of the meta-game ... so in-game.


ppl like this; who blur the in game out of game lines are worrysome

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Dawiid BenAimaic
Dasa Fern Valley Jamaican Rum Transport Corp
#112 - 2012-04-21 07:03:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Dawiid BenAimaic
Bane Necran wrote:
Came across this on another site and it seemed relevant to the discussion.

Very good read. Reading Why We Love Sociopaths made me realize that I not only do not like sociopaths but I also do not find them entertaining. I tolerate sociopaths in game because there are no game mechanics to stop spammers/scammers and blatant personal attacks other than Block. A fair portion of my life has been spent hunting down and stopping the real sociopaths. While I expect that there are a lot of sociopaths in game, I expect that there are more sociopaths on the Baltimore police force than in this game, the in game sociopaths are just more vocal and easy to find.
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#113 - 2012-04-21 07:09:15 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:


ppl like this; who blur the in game out of game lines are worrysome


Communications channels pertaining to the game are the definition of meta-game.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#114 - 2012-04-21 07:13:34 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Bane Necran wrote:
These sniveling brats going around trying to upset others are hiding behind the police. They know they're protected from violence.
Carebears and CONCORD!

My my.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#115 - 2012-04-21 07:14:26 UTC
So I have a question for all you folks who insist that anyone who behaves anti-socially in-game MUST also be sociopaths out-of-game as well. Do you agree with the man in this interview?

Jack Thompson is a man who believes that video games turn people into killers. Essentially he believes that if a person is allowed to act out in an anti-social manner in a video game, that they will do it in real life.

Now, as I understand it, a few of you also seem to think this way, so tell me, would you agree with him? Mind you, this is a man who would have all video games banned. Even a video game as innocuous as The Sims.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#116 - 2012-04-21 07:24:31 UTC
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Dr Silkworth wrote:
Sociopath is the word your looking for.


No, sociopaths don't feel any emotion. Eve players obviously get a lot of enjoyment out of whatever they do Cool


Not really relevent to the conversation, but I wouldn't bet on that. I think it more likely that sociopaths don't feel emotions the same way as the rest of us. i.e: They are essentially incapable of Love and Hate, but feel basic emotions in one form or another for all the wrong reasons. It's just easier to label tham as being incapable than to fathom that they are.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Francisco Bizzaro
#117 - 2012-04-21 07:46:43 UTC
What's all this about "blowing up ships"? When I log in, I update some database entries, and then non-consensually modify the database entries of some other players. Are you calling me a psychopath because of that??

I didn't realize Eve was so full of role-players.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#118 - 2012-04-21 07:52:56 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Everyone is an expert on sociopaths these days. It's the latest label to place on people and just a huge generalisation. There are levels to how depressed people are and the same thing goes for these sorts of problems. Not everyone you label as a sociopath is 100% sociopath at the extreme end. They have different levels between normal to complete sociopath. It isn't such a cut and dry problem and you shouldn't treat them all as being the same. There are different reasons that people come to be the way they are and it'd be silly to throw them all in the same basket.

Also on the people who are like this in game and how do you know if they're like that out of game and does it mean they're more likely to be sociopaths later on. It's like people who can't separate what happens in a movie from real life. How many people do you see who are like that when it comes movies?

Is anyone here worried about the damage you could do to someone's life if they are wrongfully accused as a sociopath in real life?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#119 - 2012-04-21 07:56:16 UTC
Lapine Davion wrote:
So I have a question for all you folks who insist that anyone who behaves anti-socially in-game MUST also be sociopaths out-of-game as well. Do you agree with the man in this interview?

Jack Thompson is a man who believes that video games turn people into killers. Essentially he believes that if a person is allowed to act out in an anti-social manner in a video game, that they will do it in real life.

Now, as I understand it, a few of you also seem to think this way, so tell me, would you agree with him? Mind you, this is a man who would have all video games banned. Even a video game as innocuous as The Sims.


It all seems a little irrational and far-fetched when you listen to them doesn't it. I couldn't watch all of it honestly. Between the raging film maker subtitling through the entire thing in an uninformed fanboy way, and the postulating of the speaker suggesting video games turned people into killers it was just too much.

Anyway, I do agree in part at least with the basic idea presented there. You shouldn't let kids play video games like GTA, and you should restrict their access to the internet. The internet can be a very bad place my friends. Smile Actually serious about that; there are a lot of very weird deviant sorts out there that like to corrupt minds, and not just young ones.

Anyway, children are maleable, easily influenced, and if you have any decency you will not subject them to the likes of Grand Theft Auto. There are plenty of video games that they can play with little or no inappropriate influences but that is not one of them.

I'd rather my kids watched Game of Thrones with all its nudity and violence than have them play that game. At least there are morals and lessons to be learned from such a TV series. I'd still hesitate to let them see it-or anything like it-till they were older though.

Point is, that children, (even up to the age of 14 and after), are developing opinions and views about the world, their place in it, and what they believe to be not only right and wrong, but acceptable and appropriate behaviours. There is a reasonn why tales told ages ago were intended to have a moral, and why they revealed consequences for evil or unsavory acts. They were intended to teach, and we have all but forgotten that now, as a society.

So yes, fundamentally I agree with such trash and tripe as was in that video, but on a more intuitive level I am fully aware that it is prejudiced and perhaps even hypocritical of them. Reasonably, I argue that they are speaking without objectivity and speaking out of their arses.

In short, they have no idea what they are talking about and probably couldn't carel less about it or anyones children, or even the future of mankind. It's just an ego trip for a bunch of self indulgent, over-opinionated windbags, (okay, I never heard what the rest of them had to say, so it's just the first guy to whom I am referring), who are inflating their own egos while preaching to the choir.

They make movies about stuff like this. The Postman comes to mind. What was the name of the guy who wrote that book that everyone thought was the second coming or something. Eventually the world order collapsed and a whole bunch of other stuff, and this all made up the background for the movie? Good movie though.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#120 - 2012-04-21 10:35:32 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I truly don't understand why some people can't grasp that can simply be fun to play the bad guy. No -pathy required, I just find it challenging and entertaining to play the part of the villain.


It's much more challenging to try and be a nice guy in this game.



And if other players weren't "bad guys" then you couldn't be a "good guy"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016