Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Blackops BS are underutilized. CCP have acknowledged this repeatedly, and a fanfest panel on the topic of Blops BS utterly failed to come up with any good ideas for improving them (OK, there was one). Additionally, a host of bad threads have popped up recently either repeating old, bad ideas (like "AOE fleet-cloaking) and introducing scores of new ones...

...so I thought I'd try posting my own bad ideas. At least I have one thing going for me: I actually fly the ships :P

First, some ideas in a quick, itemized format:

• Covert cloaks (they're not as OP as you think, and Blops BS need to be able to slink around)
• Triple the fuel bay capacity (gives the blops the ability to bridge a decent sized gang and / or stay on station longer between refuels)
• Decouple bridge fuel consumption from ship mass as-fit (the one good idea that came up at fanfest-- no more not-bridging armor tanked ships)
• Bump jump range slightly (slightly-- let us reach just a few systems further :3)
• Add a small CHA (Maybe 2.5-4k m3?) to hold ammo and consumables to support friendlies
• Add an SMA which allows the Blackops to function as a refitting station (make the capacity 1m3 if you want the ship to be unable to carry other ships)
• Decrease number of turret slots for blackops, while increasing damage bonuses to compensate, giving them another utility high-slot or two and decreasing their ammo use (again, allowing them to function for longer periods of time without resupplying)

A brief word on these ideas, before the flaming starts: covert ops cloaks on Blops BS would not be overpowered. They would probably get a sensor recalibration timer like recons, although even without one (like bombers) they still wouldn't lock things terribly quickly after decloaking since, being battleships, their base scan res blows. Perhaps a short recal timer (shorter than recons') would be appropriate? I don't know. The main point is this-- yes, with a covops cloak they would be able to slink around, but it's not like they're going to run around insta-locking things and there's no way you can say "they'll be too hard to catch in a gate camp" since their agility is generally pretty awful.

Fuel bay capacity needs to go up. This is just a fact. Whether you're bridging covert gangs or simply using the jump drive to travel around hostile space solo, these ships lack the fuel capacity to perform any of their roles effectively.

I'll admit, I haven't done much bridging with my blackops, but the few times I did, I found that fuel capacity was vastly insufficient. I'm not talking about "whining that I had to bring a fuel truck along to support a night's worth of bridging," I'm talking, "you cant fit enough fuel in the thing to bridge a gang ONCE." I had to sit next to a jetcan of fuel and drag fuel from the can to my fuel bay repeatedly just to get my whole gang through the bridge for one drop.

In my other adventures (the vast majority of my blackops experience), I have found that the bay isn't large enough to sustain solo-operations behind enemy lines. When you're 40 jumps from the nearest accessible fuel markets, it's very difficult to resupply. Just cruising around, acting as DPS support for a gang (I didn't even have a bridge fit), I found it very difficult to make my fuel supply last more than a few days. I managed to make it last about a week, but only by taking gates 99% of the time and only using my jump drive when it was absolutely necessary. IE, not for travel, not for bypassing gatecamps, only for ambushes (followed by sketchy egresses through gates). Personally, I'd like to see these things have the fuel capacity to go on a field trip for a week while actually making use of the jump drive more than once a day, and have the ability to squeeze several week's worth of operations out of it if I take care to sip isotopes.

Decoupling fuel consumption from fitted ship mass seems like a good idea. This came up at fanfest. Basically, fuel consumption would be set at a flat rate based on ship class (x for bombers, y for covops, z for recons) instead of being based on mass. This would allow a plated Arazu to go through the portal without using as much fuel as an entire shield-tanked gang.

Bumping jump range up slightly would simply make blackops a little less-impractical. Current jump range is just absolutely awful. Bumping range too much would be bad, though, since it would enable you to fling gangs too far. If jump range could be decoupled from bridge range, the ideal solution would be to increase jump range while leaving bridge range about the same, but I don't think this is possible (maybe a dev could comment on this?).

Reducing the weapon count while maintaining DPS output by increasing damage bonuses would free up additional utility highs for blackops, making them a little more flexible with regard to fitting choices while decreasing ammo usage (both good things for ships that are designed to work in hostile space).

Finally, I think adding a mini-SMA (really just a fitting service-- the idea is not to have blops BS carrying a bunch of ships) and a smallish CHA would be interesting. Fitting services and the ability to carry consumables (ammo, paste, bubbles, etc) for a small gang would *massively* increase the value of having one of these ships along-- even if it was only used in a totally non-combat role. While cargo capacity should remain fairly small (you don't want these things to be able to carry much more than consumables), the ability to carry consumables and spares for small bits of equipment, as well as refit allies in the field, would be both super-awesome and a way better buff than one that revolves around straight combat abilities.

Adding jump-range and a covops cloak (CoC) is not OP how exactly?

The ships capable of using CoC's (bet you like that acronym ) all have serious limitations in place, allowing it on a 100k EHP, 600+ DPS ship that has its own jump capability .. to covert cynos even would break the game on so many levels.

Apart from the ever popular desire for having a CoC (hah, I can play with that acronym all day long) on the BO's the rest of the ideas are not half bad, albeit "old" for the most part.

Personally been advocating the addition of a 0m3 SMA to them for over a year to make jumping them in after clients are bridged worthwhile, then again I am of the belief that they should be gang-support while deployed behind enemy lines .. which is why I also suggested giving them Titan like (albeit much lower) gang bonuses and/or light RR ability in addition to the SMA.

As for the rest;
- Fuel/Ammo is easily handled by the Blockade Runners which can be bridged in along with the DPS and eWar.
- Jump range could do with a slight tap, but then again .. what is the purpose of them to be? Solo pwnmobile then yes, jumprange .. gang support then a bridge range bump is better.
- All T2 hulls should get the Marauder treatment with regards to high slots if you ask me. Would help the plan to make T2 specialized vs. T3 being generalized and T1 being in the middle as well so win-win. Minimum of two utility slots and slightly lower fitting costs on all T2 hulls would go a long way to breaking the tier2 BC, faction frig/cruiser/T3 dominance of the landscape.
- Switching bridging cost to use unmodified size of ship rather than weight might be ugly in a PF/Physics sense but would help tremendously with fuel calculations .. will be a 'nerf' to the Caldari fat-asses who are a tad larger than everyone else but nowhere near the current nerf to anything weighed down by plates.

Making the BO capable of handling a majority of the tasks merely serves to make it a 'must-spam' hull with no need for any of the other ships .. bad plan. We need more diversity, not less.

So, AOE cloak is dumb, but turning it in to a carrier is fin



Think about this for a second. Ok, so they can't lock things very vast, but what about a cloaky frigate flying with them? It's like telling me a great white shark isn't dangerous because he can only find you if you're bleeding, and when you jump in the water a small harmless fish bites you and the great white turns around and has diner. If these only did 700 or 800 dps each it's still overpowered, I want you to find me a cov ops that does that much dps. Also they have an agility boost, not to mention they have something called a jump drive and with your three times the capacity idea, who needs to go through gates? So, I'll quote what you said to me on my thread.





Great, give it more offensive output. Now it has the range and capacity to run around and drop very large covert fleet, then jump in after them to be the dps boat on the field. What is a little impractical to you is what is balancing the game out for all of us



Screw everything lets finish the job and just make it a carrier. I mean really, "Increase the value of having one of these ships along". Correction, make this ship overpowered. So again, what were you thinking?

it's because they are not meant to fight, they are fleet support vessels. That is why I am against their combat effectiveness.

Then what's wrong with giving them a refitting service and the ability to drag gear around for a gang?

This is my point. Blops are currently underused because the only thing they excel at is flinging bombers around, which is a very niche role. They don't "excel" at combat (they're really no better at it than their T1 counterparts, despite costing 10x as much). They don't "excel" at being sneaky (they can't move about cloaked). People don't fly them because bridging people is boring, and if you use them for combat all you're doing is paying a billion isk to attach an incredibly short-range jump drive to your Geddon (which you'll end up having to take gates with anyway because it can't hold enough fuel to use the jump drive regularly). It's simply not worth it to most people, and for good reason.

e: on re-reading this post, I realized they don't actually excel at bridging either, since they can't even do that without an army of support ships.

Also I have a question for you, it's something you never answered on this thread. Why is there something wrong with AOE cloaks? It's a good example of what I'm not getting out of you when you post, explanations and back up for your statements. While you do back up some, and explain others I think anyone who reads this thread will be missing half of what you are trying to say because they don't know why it should be that way.

Another area where balancing is the best word, in my post I explained how this would not be able to activate with neutrals in range. Also like any cloak it would definitely not work with a target lock on you, it's not a problem when it doesn't have to be. All it takes is some simple rule changes. The idea is sound if it only works in key scenarios, I also mentioned a visual and probe able disturbance caused by the cloak making it easy to find and "pop" the bubble, so to speak. Probably shouldn't work with a nearby celestial, like a stargate for instance. Obviously it wouldn't be implemented with the capabilities of doing what you are suggesting, it's like me saying the black ops shouldn't move faster when cloaked because then you can bump people without ever being seen. There are game mechanics in place to stop these things from being true.

It's usefulness comes out of hiding large amounts of forces from detection in what would look like any random anomaly. Also the idea discussed at the blackops panel, do you think that they would implement this with the ability to get your forces out in the middle of the fight and break locks? But, to be fair that is already possible. All you need is some proper prior planning and you can put a grid wall at your back as an easy escape route.

I know my best fights have come out of my favorite saying, Proper Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance. Cool, eh? Also yes, they would. It's the same thing to say nobody will leave a probable t3 in a safe spot to provide bonuses to the fleet, oh wait, they do. It will be useful if you do not want a different fleet to realize you are all in battleships and not cloaky frigates.

This is not a terrible idea. Black Ops BS need another look, to be honest.