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Nightmare fitting
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Dread legionaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-04-18 00:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Dread legionaire
Hi Guys,

Been training for a nightmare over the last few months and did my first fit as a level 4 mission runner a couple of days ago but im no where near cap stable.

Im just about to get energy management to level 5 Energy grid upgrades are 8 days away. And Advanced weapon upgrades are 21 days away.

WHat else do i need to get this ship flying right. I plan on doing incursions was just going to run level 4's because im fairly new to lasers and just wanted to get a feel for them first. I just got T2 pulse lasers.

What else do i need any help would be appreciated.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Dread_legionaire
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-04-18 01:21:36 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
You don't really need energy grid upgrades at 5 unless you absolutely need the RCU II (which you shouldn't for the Nightmare), and the it isn't so power tight that you'd need advanced weapon upgrades at 5, even if you were fitting T2 tachyons.

I'd recommend getting your large pulse laser specialization to 3 or 4, and the support skills to 4 or 5. Focus also on shield skills, particularly shield operation, tactical shield manipulation, shield compensation, shield upgrades, and shield management.

EDIT: I see you already have most of that. I don't have much to add, really.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Orlacc
#3 - 2012-04-18 01:30:56 UTC
Cap stable is vastly overrated.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#4 - 2012-04-18 02:32:26 UTC
Dread legionaire wrote:
What else do i need to get this ship flying right.
Above all, you need to get beyond the notion that cap stability is in any way desirable. All it does is reduce the firepower and/or tank of your ship (and most commonly both).

You need a solid T2 tank, preferably T2 tachyons (or you could go for faction ones), and a big honking cap booster. If capacitor really worries you, you could also fit a large nosferatu in one of those handy utility highslots.

Like all higher-end rat-killing ship, your guns are your tank: you kill everything before it has had a chance to damage you to any greater extent. With something like tachyons, you can also do it before they have had a chance to close to within firing range. You pulse your tank by letting your shields sink a fair bit before starting your booster, and you then run it until you're not very damaged at all, at which point you turn it off and let your cap recover. If you need to run it for longer periods and your cap can't regenerate on its own, you give it a shot with the cap booster. Since you're in a laser ship, you can pretty much fill it up with cap charges (you'll only ever need maybe 3 different sets of crystals, one of which will be in your guns at any time).

If you're going to run incursions or any other group activity, your logistics ships will be providing you with cap, so it becomes even less important (other than as a safety blanket) to have your own source.
Arch Ange1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-04-18 04:29:37 UTC
Like the above poster said, you don't need to be cap stable in it. You'll kill the rats fast enough so that you won't be running any perma tank.

IMO nightmare shines with tachyons, nothing else. If you can use t2 guns then go for it. And also the space where u mission counts very much. Guristas will take longer to kill and u need to tank them much longer etc. Amarr space is the best option as all rats will be at your optimals.
Dread legionaire
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-04-18 08:26:11 UTC
Ok so i bought the wrong guns so better off with Tachyons rather then Mega pulse 2's

Ive heard running incursions you rely on support ships which i have never really done. Only ever run levels 4s solo so its all new to me. Got someone else in a nightmare and he was saying we can cap transfer. Only reason i was a little worried was the fit i was looking at was for solo level 4's and it said it was cap stable so figured i was missing something.

Think i need to polish my fitting skills just a touch which is a months worth of work then my shield skills max them out and take the advice here and see how i go letting shield drain then repair. Always run cap stable ships so just a small learnign vurve prob wont think about it after ive run a couple of missions.
Arch Ange1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-04-18 10:39:08 UTC
If you are cap stable with guns firing, then thats sufficient for missions. Incursions are whole different story. You won't have local reps and you'll rely on logi reps, so thats easier.
Lady Aja
#8 - 2012-04-19 00:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Aja
if you want a cap stable nightmare you are gonna hhave to spend big money.

i also say the below fit because so many nightmare users rely on cap boosters dropping in missiosn to keep thier cap more "stable"
bear in mind after inferno if it has a bpo on the market it will no longer drop from npc's so wave bye bye to cap booster charges dropping in missions.


here is a expensive but cap stabel nightmare.
Drones to suit.
swap out the hardeners to suit npc's
use two invulns and a racial hardner to tank say minmatar ( invuln x2 and one kin )
you will need two 5% cap implants to make it truely cap stable.
the factiojn guns are to save on cap that the t2 tachs rip through.
only ammo you will ever use will be faction mf ammo if you are uber lazy.

add 2x 5% damage mods to get extra damage \o/


[Nightmare, New Setup 1]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Pith A-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Gist A-Type Kinetic Deflection Field x2
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field x2
Cap Recharger II

Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Imperial Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam II
Auto Targeting System II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

WARNING!!!

fly this at your own peril.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Lady Aja
#9 - 2012-04-19 00:25:34 UTC
Arch Ange1 wrote:
If you are cap stable with guns firing, then thats sufficient for missions. Incursions are whole different story. You won't have local reps and you'll rely on logi reps, so thats easier.



yeah incursion nightmares are a whole different fittign than missions.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Gudrun Ellecon
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-04-20 15:12:40 UTC
@Lady: no. nonononono. That's not how you fit a missioning Nightmare.

[Nightmare, nmr pulses]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Corpus B-Type Heavy Nosferatu
Small Tractor Beam I

Gist A-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5

I blitz L4's like nobodies business in this thing. Scorch is probably the best ammo in the game, and you need to be abusing it with this ship. With the the implants SS-903 + LE-1003, you can apply over 800dps at 66km (all Vs). The only things I've ever had trouble tracking is frigs within about 15km.

I can count on one hand the number of missions I've had trouble with in this ship. Smash the supplier and The Blockade both come to mind, but they are bad missions overall; don't bother with them.

Cap stability is overrated. Learn how to manage your cap. Pulse your shield booster only as needed, and the MWD should only be used when everything attacking you is dead.

You need help flying this thing, contact me in game, and I'll help you out. It's a great ship.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#11 - 2012-04-20 15:33:59 UTC
Yes, cap stability is overrated. But it doesn't have to be expensive either. If you want it on the relative cheap, this is how you do it:


[Nightmare, mishin stable :(]
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Gist C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Cap Recharger II

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Auto Targeting System II
[empty high slot]

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Yes, I've flown it on a very unstable internet connection -- and it works just fine. ~1.5 bil for the whole package
Lady Aja
#12 - 2012-04-20 20:13:53 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Yes, cap stability is overrated. But it doesn't have to be expensive either. If you want it on the relative cheap, this is how you do it:


[Nightmare, mishin stable :(]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Yes, I've flown it on a very unstable internet connection -- and it works just fine. ~1.5 bil for the whole package


thisis where i stopped taking anythign you said seriously.

11% hit to shield boosting followed by a 2nd one. more han 22% shield boosting hit.
sometimes less is more.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Lady Aja
#13 - 2012-04-20 23:49:24 UTC
Dude you soon realise that VERY shortly you wont be able to pick up cap boosters on the fly anymore?

my fit with proper racial hardners can happily do all missiosn all day long.
1200 dps.

and its exacly how you fit a mission ship.
as long as it works who gives a **** tbh.
unless you have mods that gimp your shield boosting.. aka cpr's

Gudrun Ellecon wrote:
@Lady: no. nonononono. That's not how you fit a missioning Nightmare.

[Nightmare, nmr pulses]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L
Corpus B-Type Heavy Nosferatu
Small Tractor Beam I

Gist A-Type 100MN MicroWarpdrive
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Pith C-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II


Warrior II x5
Hammerhead II x5

I blitz L4's like nobodies business in this thing. Scorch is probably the best ammo in the game, and you need to be abusing it with this ship. With the the implants SS-903 + LE-1003, you can apply over 800dps at 66km (all Vs). The only things I've ever had trouble tracking is frigs within about 15km.

I can count on one hand the number of missions I've had trouble with in this ship. Smash the supplier and The Blockade both come to mind, but they are bad missions overall; don't bother with them.

Cap stability is overrated. Learn how to manage your cap. Pulse your shield booster only as needed, and the MWD should only be used when everything attacking you is dead.

You need help flying this thing, contact me in game, and I'll help you out. It's a great ship.

where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2012-04-21 00:43:31 UTC
Lady Aja wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Yes, cap stability is overrated. But it doesn't have to be expensive either. If you want it on the relative cheap, this is how you do it:


[Nightmare, mishin stable :(]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Yes, I've flown it on a very unstable internet connection -- and it works just fine. ~1.5 bil for the whole package


thisis where i stopped taking anythign you said seriously.

11% hit to shield boosting followed by a 2nd one. more han 22% shield boosting hit.
sometimes less is more.


I'm well aware of what CPRs do to shield boosting. It's a 19.5% hit. the problem is actually the mids you have to dedicate, not the lows (though a fourth damage mod would be really nice). You do recall the drawbacks are stacking penalized, right? The benefits aren't. You end up with 498 vs Sansha and 490 vs Blood. More than enough for missions.

I'm not about to claim it's not a **** fit, but it's a **** fit with a purpose. And it actually does the job.
Lady Aja
#15 - 2012-04-21 03:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Aja
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Lady Aja wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Yes, cap stability is overrated. But it doesn't have to be expensive either. If you want it on the relative cheap, this is how you do it:


[Nightmare, mishin stable :(]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Yes, I've flown it on a very unstable internet connection -- and it works just fine. ~1.5 bil for the whole package


thisis where i stopped taking anythign you said seriously.

11% hit to shield boosting followed by a 2nd one. more han 22% shield boosting hit.
sometimes less is more.


I'm well aware of what CPRs do to shield boosting. It's a 19.5% hit. the problem is actually the mids you have to dedicate, not the lows (though a fourth damage mod would be really nice). You do recall the drawbacks are stacking penalized, right? The benefits aren't. You end up with 498 vs Sansha and 490 vs Blood. More than enough for missions.

I'm not about to claim it's not a **** fit, but it's a **** fit with a purpose. And it actually does the job.




yes i know about stacking penalties etc. i was around b4 they happened.
i only use 3 so i can fit 2 tracking enhancers to give me more fall off and optimal.
while i dont approve of cpr's on active shield tanks. its purely upto you. seen worse on nightmares tbh.

in my case i would LOVE to fit two a-type invulns for my nightmare but i cannot justify nearly 4b isk in mods on one ship like a nm. not even for wornholes and especially not for incursions, as i said before. if it works who cares.

i get mixed reactions about my old fit. but everyone who ends up using it loves it. some use a slightyly less budget version but it works well.
where is my ability to link a sig properly CCP you munters!!
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-04-22 00:22:17 UTC
My nightmare has 86 seconds of cap and i have never ever run out.

When you start you are never cap stable. then your skills improve and you become cap stable. and then your knowledge improves and you are not cap stable again but you dps is through the roof


Never ever try to make a nightmare cap stable and a Nightmare without an AB is worthless due to the amount of time you lose moving from gate to gate
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Savage Creampuff
Vivid Entertainment Group
#17 - 2012-04-28 10:22:58 UTC
should be ashamed for trying to make a nightmare cap stable

nightmares are meant to kill **** fast

killing so fast, you have to ungroup your guns to be more efficient

killing so fast, you have to put on an auto targeter so you can lock 10 targets, because if you don't, you're waiting for the new targets to lock

killing so fast, you never run out of cap because everyone is already dead

killing so fast, most missions you don't even need a shield booster because they are all dead before your shields get low

disclaimer: in amarr space
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-04-28 18:25:05 UTC
Savage Creampuff wrote:
should be ashamed for trying to make a nightmare cap stable

nightmares are meant to kill **** fast

killing so fast, you have to ungroup your guns to be more efficient

killing so fast, you have to put on an auto targeter so you can lock 10 targets, because if you don't, you're waiting for the new targets to lock

killing so fast, you never run out of cap because everyone is already dead

killing so fast, most missions you don't even need a shield booster because they are all dead before your shields get low

disclaimer: in amarr space




This 
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.