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Virtual Psychopathy in New Eden

First post
Author
Devore Sekk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2012-04-20 17:30:45 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
That is reprehensible behaviour. It is psychopathic behaviour. Nothing virtual about it.


Seriously? You just spent a half dozen paragraphs reinforcing the idea of virtual actions not being related to real world actions, but virtual peer pressure (oh noez! not the peer pressure!) is bad, mkay?

There is virtual (and quite deliberate) peer pressure on players all the time to buy plex to fund their game activities, such as purchasing ships, training, modules and alts to support corp and alliance fleet doctrines, that they need to keep up or risk being left behind. Where are your tears for those players?
Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-04-20 17:31:17 UTC
Well, this has never happened before... armchair psychologists looking to analyze and categorize behaviors in a game.Roll

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

Serene Repose
#83 - 2012-04-20 17:40:40 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
Well, this has never happened before... armchair psychologists looking to analyze and categorize behaviors in a game.Roll
Only problem with that is, some of this input isn't armchair psychology. I'm surprised you didn't add "and generalizations to gloss over the uncomfortable truths involved." Oh. You weren't being intellectually honest, just showing some jaded 'tude. I get it.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.

Alpheias
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-04-20 18:02:32 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Well, this has never happened before... armchair psychologists looking to analyze and categorize behaviors in a game.Roll
Only problem with that is, some of this input isn't armchair psychology. I'm surprised you didn't add "and generalizations to gloss over the uncomfortable truths involved." Oh. You weren't being intellectually honest, just showing some jaded 'tude. I get it.


Show on the doll where the bad people touched you.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

ctx2007
Industrial Mining and Mayhem HS
Mayhem Unlimited
#85 - 2012-04-20 18:05:43 UTC
+1 to cribba

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.

Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-04-20 18:21:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Tricking someone into thinking you have an ace-high straight and taking a large amount of real life money from them as a result?

Well played sir, oh good game!

Tricking someone into thinking you have a Titan for sales and taking a large amount of imaginary pixel-money from them as a result?

U R MENTALLY SICK SOCIOPATH!!!!11


Obviously it's the lack of real life consequences that make the difference. Roll

Roll

Poker game where everyone knows there is money on the table.
In game scam targeting in game money.
In game scam targeting out of game money.

These three things are different.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.

Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#87 - 2012-04-20 18:23:41 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Well, this has never happened before... armchair psychologists looking to analyze and categorize behaviors in a game.Roll
Only problem with that is, some of this input isn't armchair psychology. I'm surprised you didn't add "and generalizations to gloss over the uncomfortable truths involved." Oh. You weren't being intellectually honest, just showing some jaded 'tude. I get it.


Says the person who likes to make sweeping generalizations of whole groups of people.

[b]Don't worry about posting with your main!  Post with your brain! "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."[/b]

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#88 - 2012-04-20 18:33:47 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tricking someone into thinking you have an ace-high straight and taking a large amount of real life money from them as a result?

Well played sir, oh good game!

Tricking someone into thinking you have a Titan for sales and taking a large amount of imaginary pixel-money from them as a result?

U R MENTALLY SICK SOCIOPATH!!!!11


Obviously it's the lack of real life consequences that make the difference. Roll

Roll

Poker game where everyone knows there is money on the table.
In game scam targeting in game money.
In game scam targeting out of game money.

These three things are different.


So you're not aware that bluffing, I mean scamming, is part of the game in EVE? I mean CCP even made an EVE advert advocaing corp theft as a method of revenge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I

So how exactly is this different?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#89 - 2012-04-20 18:47:49 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
They get to know people. lots of vent talk and suddenly you are talking about stuff outside the game. How people can do that for 6 months and then knowingly rip them is really harsh.
Because they're still just players.

If the scammer actually got to know his target(s), met them at a Fanfest, visited them, met families, went on golf outings, then I believe their resolve to pull the big scam would be greatly diminished. It could be argued that once a person has crossed that boundary from player into person, then scamming them might very well be psychopathic behaviour, no longer of the virtual variety.



This is a very blurry line with eve. You think how you ethics of your actions depends on how well you know someone.

While I would agree that a person shouldn't trust someone else until they know them, I do not think this is a good ethical line to draw.

I think the question is whether something is in game or out of game.

Let me give you an example:

1) Lets say I talk to you on vent and tell you I will not steal from you or your corp in eve.

Is that in game or out of game? I think its clearly out of game. It is an out of game promise about how I will behave in game. Yet this is often treated as if it is "part of the game" and therefore ok for me to break that promise. I am not necessarily passing a judgment on people who do this but I myself would not do this.

Moreover, I guess I will admit that if I find out someone did this “in game” I do tend to lose respect for them and not just their in game “character.”

The problem is different views about what is “in game” and what is an “out of game” conversation about what will be done in game. What most people understand as an out of game promise to act a certain way is often construed by eve players as "just part of the game." This is why eve might have a bad reputation.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#90 - 2012-04-20 18:58:39 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tricking someone into thinking you have an ace-high straight and taking a large amount of real life money from them as a result?

Well played sir, oh good game!

Tricking someone into thinking you have a Titan for sales and taking a large amount of imaginary pixel-money from them as a result?

U R MENTALLY SICK SOCIOPATH!!!!11


Obviously it's the lack of real life consequences that make the difference. Roll

Roll

Poker game where everyone knows there is money on the table.
In game scam targeting in game money.
In game scam targeting out of game money.

These three things are different.


So you're not aware that bluffing, I mean scamming, is part of the game in EVE? I mean CCP even made an EVE advert advocaing corp theft as a method of revenge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I

So how exactly is this different?



Ah the poker analogy. In poker you are not actually talking to people and building thier trust so that you can betray them. You aren't really talking at all. When people are building trust in eve it is not role play of trust between characters. They are trying to build real trust with the real people behind the characters.


That is how it is different. Because people understand how this line is crossed differently within the game is why lots of people have different views about the ethics of those who play the game.


With respect to the eve advertisement - it would be more realistic if they had someone lying to other people on vent over a course of several months in order to take their ingame assets. It would also show him selling those assets buying enough plex to pay for his subscription for for a few years and then going ahead and canceling his subscription which used to be taken out of his bank account. It wouldn't sell eve very well but it would be more realistic of how those sorts of scams are done.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-04-20 19:36:34 UTC
Patient 2428190 wrote:
You got one word right in your entire theory

Phooey.

IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-04-20 19:44:46 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Its all virtual and fantasy


Although the one thing i can never get around is people who infiltrate corps over a long period of time before ripping them off.


They get to know people. lots of vent talk and suddenly you are talking about stuff outside the game. How people can do that for 6 months and then knowingly rip them is really harsh. And i can only assume that they are lawyers in real life


Priceless. P

I agree with you though. It takes a special kind of e-prick to get in good with a Corp and be a good lil corpy, say and do the right things and then months later pull the trigger. Kind of crosses the line to being a real prick.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
FeralShadow
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-04-20 20:00:29 UTC
Honestly this topic just goes around in circles because there are always those who do not believe in dualism and who believe that how you act directly correlates to who you are as a person, regardless of what context you're doing it in. It's frustrating, but hey.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#94 - 2012-04-20 20:06:35 UTC
FeralShadow wrote:
Honestly this topic just goes around in circles because there are always those who do not believe in dualism and who believe that how you act directly correlates to who you are as a person, regardless of what context you're doing it in. It's frustrating, but hey.


Yeah, you probably don't mean any of that.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Dr Silkworth
#95 - 2012-04-20 20:19:14 UTC
can you give me an example of a non-dualisitc philosophy that has similar characteristics to whats going on in EVE? You know, like a mean one or a deceitful or hurtful one?

I'm not coming up with anything that hasn't been wiped off the face of the earth.
Deviant X
Deviant Inc
#96 - 2012-04-20 20:22:37 UTC
I think trying to rationalize bad behavior is silly. Don't make excuses; take responsibility for your actions

The right path is not always easy. It takes mental fortitude to follow it. If you decide to cheat in the game, at least grow some ... and admit you wanted to cheat. I am more willing to interact with somebody who takes responsibility for bad behavior over some wuss who rationalizes the joy they got out of cheating.

There are bad people. If you are bad ... or feeling bad for a little while ... embrace it and don't make up silly excuses. That's what makes a good antagonist and leads to worth while drama. Don't water down or rationalize your moment, it tends to imply you think your audience is stupid

Nobody is a saint. We all do bad things. Accept it, embrace it, and be worthy of that feeling. Just don't break the ToS Twisted .
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#97 - 2012-04-20 20:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Cearain wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Tricking someone into thinking you have an ace-high straight and taking a large amount of real life money from them as a result?

Well played sir, oh good game!

Tricking someone into thinking you have a Titan for sales and taking a large amount of imaginary pixel-money from them as a result?

U R MENTALLY SICK SOCIOPATH!!!!11


Obviously it's the lack of real life consequences that make the difference. Roll

Roll

Poker game where everyone knows there is money on the table.
In game scam targeting in game money.
In game scam targeting out of game money.

These three things are different.


So you're not aware that bluffing, I mean scamming, is part of the game in EVE? I mean CCP even made an EVE advert advocaing corp theft as a method of revenge!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I

So how exactly is this different?



Ah the poker analogy. In poker you are not actually talking to people and building thier trust so that you can betray them. You aren't really talking at all. When people are building trust in eve it is not role play of trust between characters. They are trying to build real trust with the real people behind the characters.


That is how it is different. Because people understand how this line is crossed differently within the game is why lots of people have different views about the ethics of those who play the game.


With respect to the eve advertisement - it would be more realistic if they had someone lying to other people on vent over a course of several months in order to take their ingame assets. It would also show him selling those assets buying enough plex to pay for his subscription for for a few years and then going ahead and canceling his subscription which used to be taken out of his bank account. It wouldn't sell eve very well but it would be more realistic of how those sorts of scams are done.


Actually, in poker you are lying your ass off constantly... either through verbal misdirection or body language. You are trying your best, usually in very subtle ways, to convince the other playing that it's safe to bet a large sum on the outcome. It's called a bluff.

Frankly, nobody forced the "mark" to spend a penny on his hobby. He knew full well he was spending cash to buy destructible/stealable in game items.

As far as the EVE video spending more time to show details of HOW to build up the trust of the ruthless players that ganked you previously, and how to finance your EVE gaming entirely from the proceeds... they absolutely should have!

Subscriptions would have gone through the roof. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Dawiid BenAimaic
Dasa Fern Valley Jamaican Rum Transport Corp
#98 - 2012-04-20 20:35:16 UTC
My dad's Uncle Frank made the observation that people were a lot more polite when everyone wore a sidearm.

Someone who is not a sociopath in RL may decide to play one in game.

Someone who is a sociopath in RL may not have the skill set to do anything but be a sociopath in game.

Even in poker, it is possible to play in an unfriendly manner. Instead of playing to win, you may play to grief one particular player. My biggest problem with Eve is that it is like playing poker out of town with people named after stuff you find in your toolbox, seems like CCP is always changing the rules.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-04-20 20:36:24 UTC
I'm not so sure that we can say virtual behavior is without real world effects. If I were on the committee charged with determining if Remedial (former goon executor) could sit for the bar, the fact that he absconded with a large amount of his alliance ISK would way heavily on my mind.

On the other hand, all this really says is that those in finance related professions might not want to engage in large scale corp theft, simply because the regulatory bodies of those professions are hyper vigilant about handling client funds. (Before anybody wastes their time though, the Mittani is retired from practicing law).
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#100 - 2012-04-20 20:41:28 UTC
Dawiid BenAimaic wrote:
My dad's Uncle Frank made the observation that people were a lot more polite when everyone wore a sidearm.

Someone who is not a sociopath in RL may decide to play one in game.

Someone who is a sociopath in RL may not have the skill set to do anything but be a sociopath in game.

Even in poker, it is possible to play in an unfriendly manner. Instead of playing to win, you may play to grief one particular player. My biggest problem with Eve is that it is like playing poker out of town with people named after stuff you find in your toolbox, seems like CCP is always changing the rules.



Your Uncle Frank was correct. Smile

In EVE, it's not so much that the rules (in issues like this) change... it's that over time your understanding of what those rules always were change.

One of the unwritten, but definative, under pinnings of EVE is commonly misunderstood as being "Trust no one".

In fact, a large part of EVE is figuring out who you CAN trust, and just how far can you trust them.

The latter is a far more subtle and difficult task than the former... but if you master it a great many more options become available to you in your gaming experience.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.