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PvP FCing vs Incursion FCing
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#1 - 2012-04-13 18:17:28 UTC
There are FCs and then there are FCs. You know, those guys who let it go to their heads, act as though the whole of Eve rests on their shoulders and they are the ultimate holders of knowledge. I have witnessed this in a good amount of PvP FCs (mostly the ~elite PVP~ types), but in a much smaller proportion to the FC population than the amount of incursion FCs who do this. Elitism seems a lot more prevalent in incursions as can be evidenced by the ridiculous requirements for some of the fleets, but this is something deeper.

Not having done incursions myself, I am curious. Is incursion FCing harder? Is there more pressure on these FCs, or are they rarer for some reason? Or do they just think a lot of themselves since everyone is in infinitely expensive ships? Or is this observation biased and false?

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-04-13 18:26:46 UTC
Actually, IIRC Incursion FCing is much easier. It mostly consists of making sure there's still a group going (if all the Logis log off, you can't do anything 'till there's new Logis) and tagging targets in the right order. That's about it.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-04-13 21:07:13 UTC
I've got limited experience with incursions but I haven't encountered a FC with an 'elitist' attitude yet.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-13 22:55:27 UTC
Incursions VG sites basically don't need an FC if the fleet has done more that 2 sites before.
Comparing it to PVP FCing is lol worthy.

There is no Bob.

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Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#5 - 2012-04-13 23:27:37 UTC
Heaps and heaps of isk weigh on the shoulders of such l337 FCs to help us reap such rewards as we face the impending nerf to Incursions and the escalating prices of ships. If it were not for these rare species that we call Incursion FCs, mere mortals such as I would not have the money to splurge on such fine blouses to wear for my toon!

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Dinger
Task Force Delta-14
#6 - 2012-04-14 08:19:49 UTC
The eitism aspect of incursion fleets is due to the rewards system, in a contested site the fleet that does the most damage gets the entire reward, the losing fleet(s) get nothing, under those circumstances no FC is in his right going to take a 400dps Harbinger over a 900dps Legion, this is one of many issues which need looking into as it makes incursions very difficult to access for newer players

Personally I don't believe Incursion FCing can be compared to PvP, one is formed with pilots who have flown together for months/years who know each other inside out and will rarely if ever face the same battleground while the other is formed generally of randoms, (granted some of whom may accumulate a fair few hours flying together) but facing near as makes any difference the same battleground every time, (even the sleeper AI cannot change that you face x number of y ship in z site) main reason I would put down for their being rarer is not everyone has the patience to handle the "cat herding" aspect especially of the larger sites, not to mention the difficulties inherent to even putting together larger fleet due to vanguard farming (although that i think will be ess of an issue after the 24th)

If there is any real pressure in incursions it is on the logi pilots, because on their shoulders rest some very expensive ships
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 - 2012-04-14 14:30:16 UTC
The only reason for need or "rarity" of incursion FC's is because it's so easy to get burned out by all the politics, drama and general annoyance of this.
I have seen and known many lovely characters leave the game or take an extended break or just getting as far away from highsec incursions as possible.

FC'ing incursions is not the same as FC'ing PvP. However both give a better start to one another.
If you are a good pvp FC you will have a headstart and probably be a great incursion FC.
If you are a good incursion FC you will have a headstart and a better shot at becoming a good pvp FC.

As for FC's to be full of themselves... both types of FC can easily be/become that, but that evidently only shows how awful they are.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#8 - 2012-04-14 18:44:48 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
The only reason for need or "rarity" of incursion FC's is because it's so easy to get burned out by all the politics, drama and general annoyance of this.
I have seen and known many lovely characters leave the game or take an extended break or just getting as far away from highsec incursions as possible.

FC'ing incursions is not the same as FC'ing PvP. However both give a better start to one another.
If you are a good pvp FC you will have a headstart and probably be a great incursion FC.
If you are a good incursion FC you will have a headstart and a better shot at becoming a good pvp FC.

As for FC's to be full of themselves... both types of FC can easily be/become that, but that evidently only shows how awful they are.


incursion fcing is herding carebear sheeps... carebears & isk = drama. that point 1 that burns out pvp fc 90% guarantied. the second point is is the fact tha your still shooting red xxes on a overvieuw. that burns out everyone at some point.

the thrid of pvp fcing is chaising up and hunting down a flok of real ppl that can anticipate on you actions and therefor outcome is never 100% certain. its the element of suprise + thril exitenent + power feeling + killmails + differantiation that keeps you going as pvo fc.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#9 - 2012-04-14 21:25:42 UTC
The common misconception is the term "FC",A "FM" Also known as a fleet manager is the dood reminding people to stay on target and searching for replacements when pilots randomly say they have to go in the middle of a site due to being redboxed by the wife.(happens all the time ) So and so is your anchor assist drones to charlie from accounting etc. Herding cats as a close person to me once called it. Its a part time job if your not runnin with people who cant remember Niarja Niarja tama tama tama Sansha Commander so on... We have even made a nursery rhyme for the new guys to bring them up to speed. But it never helps.

In all seriousness its easier to FC pvp. Most people (we hope) know what to do, Theres plenty of logi (again we hope) to go around. And if not, no one rly cares if they die to much. Poofing in a blue ball of smoke in pvp is to be expected (more hoping). While dieing in PVE is something that can and will make you a laughing stock.

TL:DR

PVP FC > PVE FM

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Stealth Alliance
#10 - 2012-04-15 00:39:57 UTC
Is this a troll? Incursion FC'ing is a joke, incursions are the most pathetically easy and tedious thing to do in EVE, they require no skill and offer no risk or variation. You could reach the precipice of the incursion FC'ing world in 2 hours.

Damn nature, you scary!
Xioden Acap
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-04-15 04:15:13 UTC
A good FC and LC most of the time doesn't make a huge difference, as 99% of the time they are nothing more than secretaries keeping the fleet full and the logistic cap chain in order. That 1% of the time though, when the **** hits the fan, having a good FC and LC can be the difference between losing nothing and a big chunk of the fleet.

And yes, most incursion sites are a complete joke, but the first 2-3 minutes of a pre-loaded TCRC is probably the toughest PVE encounter in all of EVE.
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-04-15 12:21:59 UTC
Incursion FC-ing in pve and pvp are similar in the aspect that you have a bunch of lazy dudes waiting to do something and you have to do the unthankful job of rounding them up

Then again, if you're fc-ing incursion you're in a fleet by default, never waiting and if you're good at it, pretty soon the only thing left going for are supercarriers and titans. I had days where I easily made 1 billion chaining incursions, once you have 10billion and don't want to fly titans and supers then the incentive to do incursions goes away.
Keith Planck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-04-16 06:46:24 UTC
Incursion FCing is as hard as you wanna make it.
If you pull together smart people that run the fleet for you then you don't have to do much, but that in and of itself requires enough swag to be able to judge people based on their fits.

There is a big difference between flying a 70mil/hr fleet when there is no contesting, and pulling off a 150mil/hr winning every contest during a very busy time fleet.

Basic skills such as charisma and such are required for both, a pvp FC will find an easier time becoming an incursion FC.
The problem is incursion have different game mechanics then pvp, you still have a lot of names and numbers you have to memorize.

As for HQs and mothership fleets, thats 20% fleet comp 80% corralling the noobs :3

♞
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-04-16 12:24:37 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
There are FCs and then there are FCs. You know, those guys who let it go to their heads, act as though the whole of Eve rests on their shoulders and they are the ultimate holders of knowledge. I have witnessed this in a good amount of PvP FCs (mostly the ~elite PVP~ types), but in a much smaller proportion to the FC population than the amount of incursion FCs who do this. Elitism seems a lot more prevalent in incursions as can be evidenced by the ridiculous requirements for some of the fleets, but this is something deeper.

Not having done incursions myself, I am curious. Is incursion FCing harder? Is there more pressure on these FCs, or are they rarer for some reason? Or do they just think a lot of themselves since everyone is in infinitely expensive ships? Or is this observation biased and false?


If you can FC a Pvp fleet/Roam then you will not have a problem, Fcing incursions is a good place to learn the simple things on how to maintain your fleet, But it cannot be compared to a PVP Fleet in anyway.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Ludus Lucrius
WildCards 22nd
#15 - 2012-04-16 12:25:40 UTC
Incursion FCing is just fleet managing, keeping it going by recruiting new pilots when existing 1s need to leave, maintaining it in right composition for sites u r doing. It gets a bit more involved when "**** hits the fan" or u have to compete for sites :-).Usually every1 in fleets already know what to do by heart and FM just oversees that everything runs smoothly.
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-04-16 12:29:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Ronin
Ludus Lucrius wrote:
Incursion FCing is just fleet managing, keeping it going by recruiting new pilots when existing 1s need to leave, maintaining it in right composition for sites u r doing. It gets a bit more involved when "**** hits the fan" or u have to compete for sites :-).Usually every1 in fleets already know what to do by heart and FM just oversees that everything runs smoothly.


Too true, The hardest thing to do in Incursion fleets is.

Arrow Maintain a high isk/p/hour
Arrow Keeping the fleet online/Replacing people who want to leave etc
Arrow Making sure the logistics dont slack
Arrow Making sure you have enough Ore for NMC


If you maintain these simple things you are golden.

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#17 - 2012-04-20 17:19:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Highsec Incursion FCs are the worst of the worst.

I think they're that way because it's the first time anyone has ever cared for anything they have had to say in the game.

They are also INCREDIBLY clueless as to game mechanics, as evidenced by Skunk's complete obliteration of highsec Incursions a few months ago, even though they were using the SAME trick every time.

My favourite troll used to be dropping a can in their site. I actually saw fleets scramble to warp out. When I asked why, they mumbled something to do with "can aggroing the room." v0v

Another time, the FC couldn't work out if there was a fleet in the site or not without sending in his alt in a shuttle each time. He thought it was some form of voodoo magic that I could give him the contesting fleet composition, and how far into the site they were.

True story.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

ISN Spy spizors
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-04-20 17:21:51 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Highsec Incursion FCs are the worst of the worst.

I think they're that way because it's the first time anyone has ever cared for anything they have had to say in the game.

They are also INCREDIBLY clueless as to game mechanics, as evidenced by Skunk's complete obliteration of highsec Incursions a few months ago, even though they were using the SAME trick every time.


people are dumb :/ ANYONE can call themselves an FC, that doesn't actually make you one :P
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-20 17:22:09 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Highsec Incursion FCs are the worst of the worst.

I think they're that way because it's the first time anyone has ever cared for anything they have had to say in the game.

They are also INCREDIBLY clueless as to game mechanics, as evidenced by Skunk's complete obliteration of highsec Incursions a few months ago, even though they were using the SAME trick every time.
The worst of the what?
There seem to be quite a lot doing what they're good at: making filthy amounts of isk.
Veronica Kerrigan
Surgically Constructed L Feminist
#20 - 2012-04-21 00:56:46 UTC
The best FCs find the people who can stay in the fleet for at least an hour, and then tell them which site to go to. Been in plenty of fleets where you get into a site and the FC doesn't bother calling targets because of how fast they're dying. If the pilots are good enough, then all you need is a destination and the rest is taken care of. So, in short, it is nothing like PvP FC at all. Might be because I run in a full fleet of faction BS, but I can't imagine a fleet of t3 or assorted t2/t1 BS would be much different.
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