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Virtual Psychopathy in New Eden

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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#61 - 2012-04-20 14:59:19 UTC
I truly don't understand why some people can't grasp that can simply be fun to play the bad guy. No -pathy required, I just find it challenging and entertaining to play the part of the villain.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#62 - 2012-04-20 15:01:15 UTC
I got busy preaching and forgot to tie this to the original post.

Although I choose not to portray my characters as scam artists in this game, if I did and this situation arose I would make my choice as to whether to push it that far based on what I knew of the mark.

If I had no reason to believe that encouraging him to spend his real life funds in this way would cause him any real harm I would proceed. In other words, if I believe him to be your average gamer with a bit of disposable cash.

If I had reason to believe (really believe) that the guy was financially pretty shakey, I would not have encouraged him to spend real life funds to equip his ship. Now if he chose to make his own decision to spend the cash anyway, with no encouragement from me, then the responsibility for risking those funds on an in game destructible item is his own and he is fair game.

While I might revel a bit at the successful manipulation and subsequent gank (and my personal gain) under no circumstances would I be an ass to the individual about it afterwards. I would likely explain what I did, perhaps needle him gently about being gullible, and quite probably help the man bounce back in some subtle way if he was a good sport about it. If he was not a good sport about it I would be a bit more blunt, but then end the conversation and move on to other things.

Sinking in the spurs in a malicious manner serves no purpose other than to move me from the category of a clever player who plays a nefarious character, to the category of being a classless punk... and I choose not to present myself that way either in or out of game.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#63 - 2012-04-20 15:01:16 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I truly don't understand why some people can't grasp that can simply be fun to play the bad guy. No -pathy required, I just find it challenging and entertaining to play the part of the villain.


It's much more challenging to try and be a nice guy in this game.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#64 - 2012-04-20 15:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Bane Necran wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I truly don't understand why some people can't grasp that can simply be fun to play the bad guy. No -pathy required, I just find it challenging and entertaining to play the part of the villain.


It's much more challenging to try and be a nice guy in this game.


True, yet either is a viable course of action.

One is no better, or worse, than the other... as long as you keep it in game and with no sense of malice... and as long as you do it with style.

You can screw over another character in game as much as you like, as long as you don't intentionally try to do harm to the person outside of game.

To be clear, unless there are unlikely extenuating circumstances, convincing someone to throw a bit more money at their hobby and then capitalizing on it to teach them a lesson is NOT intentionally trying to cause the person harm outside the game.

Making a huge spectacle out of it afterward is still acceptable, but in my book is more distasteful than the original deed.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#65 - 2012-04-20 15:09:27 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Bane Necran wrote:
It's much more challenging to try and be a nice guy in this game.


Being nice is easy. I did it for a year. Then I decided to quietly turn bad had a lot more fun. Throwing off the shackles of nicety gave me the range to be creative in ways I never could before. I used mercenaries to topple industrial alliances so that I could take them over and make off with as many assets as I could. I took up spying and manipulating enemies into losing assets. I helped develop new methods of piracy and have played a small part in some rather big things that have gone on in Eve in the past year.

By abandoning "nice" I've been able to push my limits in ways I never could before.

edit: It's important to remember that this IS a role-playing game. Role playing is ultimately about telling a story through the actions of the characters. My contributions to Eve's story began when I decided to give up any pretense of being a good guy.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#66 - 2012-04-20 15:11:02 UTC
Peer pressure only works on those that are not of a strong enough character to think for themselves and stand up for themselves.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#67 - 2012-04-20 15:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Bane Necran wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
I try to avoid judging others, although in reality that is impossible to do.


In my case at least, i learned so much about these people because someone i thought was a friend in real life, completely blind sided me. I always knew there was something about him that was a little off, but i never really thought about it until it was too late. And i don't mean he did anything minor. This guy stalked me and vandalized my property for 10 years during the night, and during the day was out there convincing people i was a child molester. The reason i'm so outspoken on the issue is because unless you're one of these people yourself, you just don't think anyone is capable of doing that, and even if you do, the last person you expect is the guy pretending to be your friend. I hope to stop someone else from learning about them the hard way.

But on the bright side of things i'm now a psychopaths worst nightmare.

I know them better than they know themselves. Twisted
Not many people are like that in real life. If they are normal most the time but only crazy sometimes then aren't they more likely to be sociopaths? Most people can figure out if someone is a psychopath without been told.

The guy needs help you don't have to go out of your way to tell everyone that he's a sociopath/psychopath. Telling everyone that someone else is a crazy bastard isn't going to help at all. You just push them on to continue or be worse. If you really want to help everyone, you'd help them to be normal, so they don't do the same thing to others. Telling everyone that they should be careful about this person will only make things worse if they find out about it or if they figure that everyone is treating them strangely.

Be careful about the road you're travelling down. The cycle of suffering should be stopped not pushed forward.


Edit: Actually I could be wrong about what he is. I read wiki a bit just now and found out that these days that sociopaths and psychopaths are kind of the same thing.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#68 - 2012-04-20 15:34:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
non judgement wrote:
Most people can figure out if someone is a psychopath without been told.


This is what i used to think, too, from watching movies.

Quote:
Telling everyone that someone else is a crazy bastard isn't going to help at all.


I never really did that. Just cut my ties with everyone who believed any of his bullshit (how is that not censored?), instead of arguing with them. I consider him still being in their lives suitable punishment for their ignorance, and anyone who would believe that crap about me wasn't my friend in the first place, anyway.

It's not some vendetta against him, or even people like him, which this is all about. I'm honestly just trying to help others understand these people and maybe be a little safer. I was completely unprepared, myself.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi
Serene Repose
#69 - 2012-04-20 15:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
It's obvious you don't need to convince yourselves...so whom? Anyway, this has all been a fascinating journey into deep psych. Amazing how people will be forthcoming if it's "only a game." Unfortunately, we have to take your words for the IRL you. And, as you well know, this is EVE. Trust no one.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#70 - 2012-04-20 15:43:37 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
Bane Necran wrote:
non judgement wrote:
Most people can figure out if someone is a psychopath without been told.


This is what i used to think, too, from watching movies.

Quote:
Telling everyone that someone else is a crazy bastard isn't going to help at all.


I never really did that. Just cut my ties with everyone who believed any of his bullshit, instead of arguing with them. I consider him still being in their lives suitable punishment for their ignorance, and anyone who would believe that crap about me wasn't my friend in the first place, anyway.
Yeah. I think I changed my mind just then about being able to tell the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath, after reading a bit more about it in wikipedia.

I complete agree with what you did. I've had problems with this sort of thing as well. I couldn't say anything to make things better. It just seemed like it was a mess no matter what I said or did.


Edit: To address the OP. I think we really shouldn't worry too much about this kind of thing. More and more you wont be able to avoid this kind of behaviour on the internet. I think something huge will have to happen before people change the way it is. Even good people say and do bad things on the internet. The best you can do is understand that it happens and don't do bad things to get back at something bad. It will more than likely make it worse.
Michael J Caboose
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-04-20 16:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael J Caboose
Sasha Azala wrote:
Peer pressure only works on those that are not of a strong enough character to think for themselves and stand up for themselves.



Human beings are social creatures and as such every one of us is susceptible to peer pressure in ways overt and subtle. The person who is self-aware acknowledges this susceptibility to group-think and is able to mitigate most of the harmful effects.

Conversely, one who lacks self-awareness and thinks only those who are "weak" are influenced by peers is much more likely to be in denial as to effect of the influences surrounding them , and therefore much more likely to be influenced without even being aware of it.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-04-20 16:08:53 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
I'm personally ok with thieving and scamming in EVE, even though i don't partake in those activities myself. And i don't even consider those psychopathic traits on their own

However, the people who do set off my psychopath alarms online, are those who not only seek to cause emotional harm to others, but get a rush out of doing it. That is textbook psychopathy. And not just an act they're putting on. Doing certain things can be an act, but how they react to the things they do gives them away. They are incapable of emotions which are considered higher thought processes like empathy, yet have all the basic 'proto-emotions' like rage or envy. They see people who are capable of emotions they aren't as weaker, and believe they are superior because they they aren't held back in life by things like compassion or remorse

But that's not to say they're out there in real life doing those things to others if they do it in a game. There's a good book called "The Mask of Sanity" which explains what that's all about. Basically, psychopaths know they aren't like other people, and become very adept at appearing to be like everyone else to blend in. They can't actually have a lot of emotions those around them do, but learn to mimic them. They know they're supposed to feel guilty about certain things, for example, so they act guilty, and may even make the most convincing apology you've ever heard, but it's all just an empty machine response. For these reasons it's extremely hard for a psychologist to diagnose someone as a psychopath, without them getting caught doing something extreme which they can't talk themselves out of. They could be anyone you know, and contrary to what Hollywood shows, they're superb impression managers, and usually don't creep people out or anything. In fact quite the opposite, they're more likely to act in a way which makes you give them your complete trust

What the internet and games like EVE offer them, is an escape from all that, where they don't have to pretend anymore, and can just revel in their true nature. I think some people out there are just pathetically trying to act like the bad guy in a movie they saw, because they think he's cool or something, but like i said earlier, it's how they react to the things they do which gives them away. Still not enough evidence to be sure, but it's a damned good indication.


Dexter! The HBO (or showtime) show not the cartoon

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#73 - 2012-04-20 16:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Dr Silkworth wrote:
Sociopath is the word your looking for.


No, sociopaths don't feel any emotion. Eve players obviously get a lot of enjoyment out of whatever they do Cool

Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


FAI, The Mittani is a lamer compared to the guy who spent 130 million euros of public treasury to build an unnecessary airport without airplanes nor any plan to have them, and then built a statue of himself on top of it for 300,000 euros.


Lol Awesome


Quote:
1. Sociopaths are usually defined as people displaying anti social behavior which is mainly characterized by lack of empathy towards others that is coupled with display of abnormal moral conduct and inability to conform with the norms of the society. People suffering from antisocial personality disorder are often referred to as sociopaths. Some of the other characteristics that sociopaths may display are stealing, lying, lack of remorse for others and towards living beings, irresponsible behavior, impulsive behavior, drug or alcohol abuse, problems with the law, violating rights of others, aggressive behavior and much more.

Sociopaths are often unable to control their behavior and their expressions of annoyance, irritability and threats when faced with situations not appealing to them and they often tend to resort to threats, aggression and verbal abuse. Though no person is born with this disorder, the sociopathic personality disorder does involve a history of persistent anti social behavior during childhood before the age of 15 and if left untreated, this disorder continues into adulthood too. Sociopaths could also have been influenced by various environmental factors around the age of 15 that is also one of the main reasons for this disorder in individuals. Some of the environmental factors can include deprivation, sexual abuse, abandonment, emotional abuse, association with people who are antisocial, physical abuse and others. Though there are no distinct biological causes that have been identified as the main cause for this disorder, research suggest that for people suffering from sociopathic personality disorder, the part of the brain that is mainly responsible for an individual’s learning from his or her own mistakes and responding to fearful and sad facial expressions tends to be smaller than in a normal individual. Researchers believe that this may be the reason for lack of empathy towards others. There are theories that also indicate that hormonal fluctuations also have a role to play in this disorder, however the links have not been directly established.

People suffering from Sociopathic disorders tend to be superficially charming. They also tend to display behavior which include manipulation of people around them, desire to be in control of everything and everyone around them that usually leads to grave consequences and shallow emotions.

Displays heightened levels of deceitfulness in dealings with others, which involves lying, conning others without remorse, or even using aliases
Inability to abide by the social norms and thus violating law
Displays aggressiveness and often tends to get into assaults and physical fights
Displays complete lack of empathy for others and their situation for which they are responsible
Displays no feelings or shallow feelings
Displays impulsive behavior which is indicated by the inability to plan for the future
Displays no concern for safety of others around them or self
Inability to sustain a consistent behavior that stems mainly from irresponsibility especially at work place or in other dealings
Displays promiscuous behavior


Sounds like a lot of the trolls here lol

peh sociopathy? THIS IS EVE lol

Malcanis wrote:
Tricking someone into thinking you have an ace-high straight and taking a large amount of real life money from them as a result?

Well played sir, oh good game!

Tricking someone into thinking you have a Titan for sales and taking a large amount of imaginary pixel-money from them as a result?

U R MENTALLY SICK SOCIOPATH!!!!11


Obviously it's the lack of real life consequences that make the difference. Roll


tricking thousands of like minded individuals into pestering someone into committing suicide is TOTALLY the same as Titan scamming

SAME consequences entirely.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2012-04-20 16:40:15 UTC
What you've said about psychopathy makes sense.

HOWEVER.

You say that "they won't be a bad person in the real world". This is wrong. The mask of social inhibitions and moral graces that we all wear prevents us from acting like this, as well as the fear of repercussions if we did. The state keeps control of us not through drugs or respect or the fact that they could wipe us out in one blow but because, simply put, they can't keep control of us in any manner but fear.

Take the pet dog. He has been taught, all his life, to have a massive, twitching inferiority complex. He believes that his master could do anything to him. That dog does not know that he could leap up and tear his master's throat out with relative ease. A nation's armed forces are a minute fraction of the size of the total population - even if equipped with the simplest of weaponry, the high-tech that the armed forces hold could not hold back the crudely armed citizenry when they outnumber each man at least 100,000 to 1. The ability that the police and army hold to keep control of a population is purely "Or else". Nobody asks "or else what?", for the fear that these forces will bring something down on them. With the size of a population on your side, the response would probably be "Or else... or else... well, you'd just better not, okay?".

It is the fear the individual has that he will get caught and punished which restricts us from acting. Take any gang, mob or group of general malcontents. In a big group, they iz badmans, ready to take on anything 'cause they're well 'ard. Take each individual member and he'll urinate inside his underwear when faced with the same possibility.

Now, I've heard the expression that "all internet arguments lead back to the Nazis", but for once I need to make a relevant point using them. Take the concentration camps, the brutal murders, the smashing of Jewish shops on Kristalnacht. All of these occurred because there would be no repercussions for doing it. The Nazis encouraged people to put their animal side to use. People will go along with anything in a group or when there is no possibility of them being punished. The only exception to this, of course, is the hardcore group with a moral compass etched into the very fabric of their existence - great men such as Gandhi, who never believed in any kind of harm to their fellow men.

All in all, I believe that, given the chance, people would act like they do in EVE in reality if they had the same kind of anonymity or freedom to commit the acts without repercussion. I thankyou for reading my mini-essay.

Dodixie > Hek
Llyandrian
Livestock Science Exchange
#75 - 2012-04-20 16:44:57 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I truly don't understand why some people can't grasp that can simply be fun to play the bad guy. No -pathy required, I just find it challenging and entertaining to play the part of the villain.


And some just don't understand that lack of empathy is what defines a psychopath.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-04-20 16:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Sigurd Sig Hansen
Godwin wins!

Llyandrian wrote:
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I truly don't understand why some people can't grasp that can simply be fun to play the bad guy. No -pathy required, I just find it challenging and entertaining to play the part of the villain.


And some just don't understand that lack of empathy is what defines a psychopath.


actually I think lack of empathy defines what used to be called sociopath. Look up at my lotta words post up there

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Testerxnot Sheepherder
Get Isk or Die Mining
#77 - 2012-04-20 16:51:56 UTC
Fantastic post OP, wholeheartedly agree.
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
#78 - 2012-04-20 16:54:46 UTC
I'm a sociopath in real life but when I play eve I like to mine and build stuff.
Sigurd Sig Hansen
Doomheim
#79 - 2012-04-20 17:00:32 UTC
Alexandra Delarge wrote:
I'm a sociopath in real life but when I play eve I like to mine and build stuff.


Yeah Im quite insane in real life (Ive said as much before) but here I like to pretend not to be.

Mining is the "Deadliest Catch" in this game
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#80 - 2012-04-20 17:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
ElQuirko wrote:
What you've said about psychopathy makes sense.

HOWEVER.

You say that "they won't be a bad person in the real world". This is wrong. The mask of social inhibitions and moral graces that we all wear prevents us from acting like this, as well as the fear of repercussions if we did. The state keeps control of us not through drugs or respect or the fact that they could wipe us out in one blow but because, simply put, they can't keep control of us in any manner but fear.

Take the pet dog. He has been taught, all his life, to have a massive, twitching inferiority complex. He believes that his master could do anything to him. That dog does not know that he could leap up and tear his master's throat out with relative ease. A nation's armed forces are a minute fraction of the size of the total population - even if equipped with the simplest of weaponry, the high-tech that the armed forces hold could not hold back the crudely armed citizenry when they outnumber each man at least 100,000 to 1. The ability that the police and army hold to keep control of a population is purely "Or else". Nobody asks "or else what?", for the fear that these forces will bring something down on them. With the size of a population on your side, the response would probably be "Or else... or else... well, you'd just better not, okay?".

It is the fear the individual has that he will get caught and punished which restricts us from acting. Take any gang, mob or group of general malcontents. In a big group, they iz badmans, ready to take on anything 'cause they're well 'ard. Take each individual member and he'll urinate inside his underwear when faced with the same possibility.

Now, I've heard the expression that "all internet arguments lead back to the *****", but for once I need to make a relevant point using them. Take the concentration camps, the brutal murders, the smashing of Jewish shops on Kristalnacht. All of these occurred because there would be no repercussions for doing it. The ***** encouraged people to put their animal side to use. People will go along with anything in a group or when there is no possibility of them being punished. The only exception to this, of course, is the hardcore group with a moral compass etched into the very fabric of their existence - great men such as Gandhi, who never believed in any kind of harm to their fellow men.

All in all, I believe that, given the chance, people would act like they do in EVE in reality if they had the same kind of anonymity or freedom to commit the acts without repercussion. I thankyou for reading my mini-essay.



Some people are good, it's just the way they are and think, they don't fear the law because they're very unlikely to break it in the first place.

Dogs are pack animals and in a pack you have a pecking order, which is why some dogs consider themselves to be higher than infants in that pecking order. Don't tell me a dog feels it has an inferiority complex when it's trying to hump your leg.

Fear is the worst way to try and maintain control as it quite often back fires.

Fear can prevent someone from doing something, but quite often good old common sense works better. Laws are not put in place to be feared, laws are guidelines on how civilised people need to act to be able to get along in large numbers.

Your take on the second world war is not even worth going into, I don't know which film you watched.